Cost of expansions

[Devman]

I do appreciate your reply , and I certainly understand the need for balancing . But I would have to respectfully disagree on some of your points.

Paying $20 for an expansion, to me anyways, was a little steep. I'm not an Arabian prince so dropping hundreds or even thousands on a browser game or any game for that matter is out of the question. But a $20 here and there was doable, because I do like the game and I do find it enjoyable.

But now we're talking $50 to $80 bucks for enough space for one or two culture buildings? I understand that with time the same can be accomplished, what I don't understand is pricing the general public out of being able to or even wanting to continue playing the game at the speed or pace they choose to or can afford to play. If there goal is making money, and I'm sure it is, they would be wise to execute their business model they way they are asking players to play the game ... slow and steady .

See , instead of taking my money a little at a time and providing me the opportunity to keep enjoying the game at the pace I prefer , they have opted to price me and many others out of enjoying the game at the pace we would prefer or rather at the pace our wallets would allow . They are dictating how we the public should enjoy the game ... at their pace and at their price. have they read these post ? It aint working. In fact its rather insulting. It really does want to make you say 'piss on this. Quite frankly I'm almost there, don't want my money , Ok , want me to play slow , Ok , I can do that too .

Its only costing them revenue and making me find other ways to spend those gaming moments. People are not going to keep playing/paying under these terms . I want to buy their premium content and I'll even suck it up and givem a little for the space to put it , but now its just taking advantage of the customer and everyone knows it . Balancing is one thing ... being reasonable is another, the only thing this price hike is balancing is INNO's bank account , that and the numbers of free players vs the number of players saying .. "ehhh na I'm not payin that. Simply put, its going to turn Pay players to Free players . Don't believe me ? read this thread again , it already has .

 

[SoggyShorts]

But a $20 here and there was doable

Like most of INNO's changes they bundle 2 things together.

1. reducing #of available premium expansions (good for the reasons in my previous post)
1b. increasing the price to $50-80 (obscene)

2.re-arranging the battle pentagram(great, makes every unit have a purpose)
2b making fighting so hard that even if you are in their suggested range of expansion it isn't worth the trouble.

3. making the wholesaler dynamic so that a different offer comes up each day, but increasing the cost with each purchase to balance.
3b set the starting price at the old price and have it go up 50% per click
3c reduce the choices of what to buy to 1

4. reduce enemy mages range so that they can't kill you before you get a turn
4b reduce our enemy mages range so that they have to move into melee range in order to attack (and die)

Thankfully they listened to feedback and cancelled the wholesaler. I have only been here 6 months, but I think in that time there should have been at least ONE change that made the game easier.

@Devman I added a little edit to my first post, to be clear, I meant $20 total for all 20 expansions as an example of how to unbalance a game. I think $20 per expansion is probably pretty good as it's close to what someone might budget spending on a game based on what I've seen others post.

 

[DeletedUser4778]

THIS:

I have only been here 6 months, but I think in that time there should have been at least ONE change that made the game easier.

Oh. My. Gosh. This is the most disappointing thing I've ever read about this game.

 

[DeletedUser2757]

Devman, you are right. Any discussion of gameplay “balance” is moot – there is no competition between players in this game. A ranking list is simply a comparison between unequals with no impact on gameplay. How any particular city looks, how many provinces are scouted, how far along in the tech tree a player advances are irrelevant considerations to any other city.

Very few players have maxed all buildings to the highest level and come to the end of the current tech tree, and none have scouted every single province in an entire world. There is no aspect of gameplay to “balance”, so there is no logical reason to restrict gameplay in any way. It is much more plausible to encourage gameplay in any and all ways to increase in-app purchases, and thereby maximize revenue.

Elvenar was launched in April 2015, and skews largely female (>50%) and older (>35 yo) in contrast to other Inno games. Notably, woman are 30% more likely to buy in-app (purchase diamonds). http://finance.yahoo.com/news/innogames-draws-women-elvenar-finds-221500104.html

Expansion space should be the cheapest and most readily available purchase in the game. Then any variety of buildings to put on that space can be purchased – preferably with options of size, shape and colors!

One thing I have wondered: we have diamond purchase options on practically every aspect of the game from space to buildings to completing actions faster – but there are no special troop units that can be added to our fighting forces by purchasing them with diamonds. Why not solve all our battle woes by selling us that solution?

 

[Sir Squirrel]

I have only been here 6 months, but I think in that time there should have been at least ONE change that made the game easier.

They made quitting easier.....quit battling (scouted to far), quit coming to the forums as much (depressing), quit buying expansions (crazy expensive), and quit enjoying the game as much. Not to mention the many players quitting!

 

[SoggyShorts]

How any particular city looks, how many provinces are scouted, how far along in the tech tree a player advances are irrelevant considerations to any other city.

Mostly right, but as I pointed out above, the game is balanced equally for all players, so if being a paying player gives too much of an "advantage" over non-paying players, how can you balance the difficulty for everyone? Ideally it should be

1. just challenging enough to tempt some free players to buy something to make the game easier, while
2. still maintaining a challenge for big spenders, but also
3. not so challenging as to scare off true free players

So how "easy" you make a non-competitive game for some players does indeed effect all players. That all being said, I don't think it's being done very well in Elvenar.

 

[DeletedUser1944]

Well this is one fish now off the hook. Inno ,I have 5 premium expansions that I will never buy at it's current price so you can take them back. You really don't want me to suggest where to put them.

 

[DeletedUser5035]

Devman, you are right. Any discussion of gameplay “balance” is moot – there is no competition between players in this game. A ranking list is simply a comparison between unequals with no impact on gameplay. How any particular city looks, how many provinces are scouted, how far along in the tech tree a player advances are irrelevant considerations to any other city.

Very few players have maxed all buildings to the highest level and come to the end of the current tech tree, and none have scouted every single province in an entire world. There is no aspect of gameplay to “balance”, so there is no logical reason to restrict gameplay in any way. It is much more plausible to encourage gameplay in any and all ways to increase in-app purchases, and thereby maximize revenue.

Elvenar was launched in April 2015, and skews largely female (>50%) and older (>35 yo) in contrast to other Inno games. Notably, woman are 30% more likely to buy in-app (purchase diamonds). http://finance.yahoo.com/news/innogames-draws-women-elvenar-finds-221500104.html

Expansion space should be the cheapest and most readily available purchase in the game. Then any variety of buildings to put on that space can be purchased – preferably with options of size, shape and colors!

One thing I have wondered: we have diamond purchase options on practically every aspect of the game from space to buildings to completing actions faster – but there are no special troop units that can be added to our fighting forces by purchasing them with diamonds. Why not solve all our battle woes by selling us that solution?

thank you for this post. with them recently lowering the amount of expantions you can buy I went from paying 2k with the amount I have now and a couple days ago the amount jumped to 12k per expantion that is unreal then they put the amount you can buy to merely 23 now I cant even buy any. and i am the type to always buy the gem culture so it makes it really hard to fit those buildings plus what we need to have

 

[DeletedUser5035]

I do appreciate your reply , and I certainly understand the need for balancing . But I would have to respectfully disagree on some of your points.

Paying $20 for an expansion, to me anyways, was a little steep. I'm not an Arabian prince so dropping hundreds or even thousands on a browser game or any game for that matter is out of the question. But a $20 here and there was doable, because I do like the game and I do find it enjoyable.

But now we're talking $50 to $80 bucks for enough space for one or two culture buildings? I understand that with time the same can be accomplished, what I don't understand is pricing the general public out of being able to or even wanting to continue playing the game at the speed or pace they choose to or can afford to play. If there goal is making money, and I'm sure it is, they would be wise to execute their business model they way they are asking players to play the game ... slow and steady .

See , instead of taking my money a little at a time and providing me the opportunity to keep enjoying the game at the pace I prefer , they have opted to price me and many others out of enjoying the game at the pace we would prefer or rather at the pace our wallets would allow . They are dictating how we the public should enjoy the game ... at their pace and at their price. have they read these post ? It aint working. In fact its rather insulting. It really does want to make you say 'piss on this. Quite frankly I'm almost there, don't want my money , Ok , want me to play slow , Ok , I can do that too .

Its only costing them revenue and making me find other ways to spend those gaming moments. People are not going to keep playing/paying under these terms . I want to buy their premium content and I'll even suck it up and givem a little for the space to put it , but now its just taking advantage of the customer and everyone knows it . Balancing is one thing ... being reasonable is another, the only thing this price hike is balancing is INNO's bank account , that and the numbers of free players vs the number of players saying .. "ehhh na I'm not payin that. Simply put, its going to turn Pay players to Free players . Don't believe me ? read this thread again , it already has .

thank you for this post. with them recently lowering the amount of expantions you can buy I went from paying 2k with the amount I have now and a couple days ago the amount jumped to 12k per expantion that is unreal then they put the amount you can buy to merely 23 now I cant even buy any. and i am the type to always buy the gem culture so it makes it really hard to fit those buildings plus what we need to have

 

[DeletedUser61]

in that time there should have been at least ONE change that made the game easier.

Accumulating active cities near the center of the map has made the game a TON easier, and far more playable.

Expansion space should be the cheapest and most readily available purchase in the game.

The jigsaw puzzle of what you need to tear down and/or move in order to build what you need is a MAJOR aspect of game play, and that matches the dynamic in a bricks and mortar city. It's called Urban Renewal.

If you make expansions readily available, if you have a "storage" space, and/or if you can rotate buildings, then you're sabotaging a major aspect of game play. That said, I'd certainly drop a few more Diamonds into the Builders Hut if that gave me access to

• A "Blueprint Mode" that suppressed all but the building foundations, and provided a tooltip for roadway
• An "Inventory List" that detailed everything in my city

 

[Elenara]

That's Inno inflation for you. It's as bad as the new battle system which just got worse for me to the point I can no longer fight. /slowclap

This is not inflation, inflation would increase in increments, this is price gouging. The developers are getting greedy and need to learn a basic economic principal, People spend more money when prices are lower, less money when prices at higher. I recommend a boycott on diamonds

 

[DeletedUser4572]

I imagine I'm a couple hundred bucks in to date, too much time and capital invested to stop at this point...As a customer that's been playing the game from day one I kindly request inno PLEASE STOP CHANGING THE RULES AND TREATING YOUR CUSTOMERS LIKE GARBAGE. Maybe have your FOE staff talk to the morons working on Elvenar as I don't recall ever being remotely this frustrated with FOE - thanks, Yoop

 

[DeletedUser2757]

Mostly right, but as I pointed out above, the game is balanced equally for all players, so if being a paying player gives too much of an "advantage" over non-paying players, how can you balance the difficulty for everyone?

But that's just it -- the game isn't balanced at all. My Honda will never match the performance of the other city's Porsche, but I can't afford the Porsche. I still might want to buy floor mats and seat covers for my Honda, and the other city may want to upgrade the turbo on their Porsche -- the developers' goal should be to get a car of some sort into everybody's city and then give them purchase options. That is the path to making the most money (car = expansions).

The jigsaw puzzle of what you need to tear down and/or move in order to build what you need is a MAJOR aspect of game play, and that matches the dynamic in a bricks and mortar city. It's called Urban Renewal.

But if the city council can afford to buy the cow pasture next to the subdivision, it becomes Urban Expansion -- a similar amount of strategy is involved in fitting more buildings into more space. Both are valid (and yes, totally unequal/unbalanced) approaches to game play, just at different cost. Offering the options increases opportunity for revenue.

Theoretically, Inno is in business to make money. Diamond purchasers should and do have advantages in game play over non-paying players. And that's OK, because there can be a lot of different ways to enjoy playing this game with and without diamonds. The traditional approach of free-to-play with in-app purchases games is to nickel and dime your customers by offering shiny trinkets, baiting impatient over-achievers and challenging the hyper-competitive until they've slowly spent an outrageous amount without really realizing it. These new expansion costs depart sharply from that historic approach, and the contrast is jarring enough to make the frog jump out of the hot water entirely.

 

[DeletedUser1944]

This is not inflation, inflation would increase in increments, this is price gouging. The developers are getting greedy and need to learn a basic economic principal, People spend more money when prices are lower, less money when prices at higher. I recommend a boycott on diamonds

Boycotting is a nice idea but I don't be leave will work. Besides with this current price gouging by the developers they will see there revenue stream dry up fairly quick. I am more concerned with players abandoning the game all together thus having a repeat be for they moved everybody.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Accumulating active cities near the center of the map has made the game a TON easier, and far more playable.

Sorry, I completely forgot about player movement (and it seems INNO has as well)
Great in theory, and as far as I could tell it worked pretty well in practice the one time they did it, but it seems to have been abandoned.
The only changes I've seen since the one move is inactives being replaced by gold mines, and those gold mines being replaced by new inactives.
I believe the key to success with the player movement is to move inactives out right before they move active players in.... and do it more than once of course.
Edit: also, finding a way to not put new players into a sweet spot until they have a trader might be good too.

But that's just it -- the game isn't balanced at all

Allow me to rephrase: The costs of upgrading, researching techs, and negotiating are the same for all players.
Those costs are based on an expected level of production, and if that production(which requires space) is too easily achieved it's boring, and if it's too hard people lose interest.

 

[DeletedUser3312]

The jigsaw puzzle of what you need to tear down and/or move in order to build what you need is a MAJOR aspect of game play, and that matches the dynamic in a bricks and mortar city. It's called Urban Renewal.

This was a major lesson for me. Very difficult to undertake at first. I almost quit the game as I had no where else to go. But wiser than me friends explained that it is necessary at times to sell buildings and build other things in their place. Once I choked that lesson down, it became easier to do and now I am a deleting stuff kinda girl. lol And I did have to rebuild some things that I deleted too quickly grins. oy vey. but, I now have room to do what I need and the game is challenging for me in that I strive to figure out where to put things to have the most economy of space and I had a blast replacing the central place culture with ancient grounds. That was some serious moving around grins. but for me that is very enjoyable.

 

[DeletedUser2334]

Exactly

The price increase was done to prevent players from advancing through the game too quickly (like so many had done with the 33 expansion release). The balance between free to play and pay to win was strongly in favor of the payers. The game has been re-balanced in favor if the FTP players Some players wish to continue to play for free so it seems to be necessary to increase the costs to make it a tougher decision to decide to buy your way though.

With that said,the top players will always be payers. There are players already at the end of the Tech Tree again. To these people, 8500 diamonds for an expansion is nothing and they will gladly pay it.

Kayleegrrl,
without paying players the game doesn't exist. So, yes the paying players had an advantage. That's why I pay: to enhance my gaming experience. If Inno loses their paying base, the whole game development suffers, then dies.

 

[DeletedUser3297]

I agree that there needs to be a balance between both types of players, which there still is. After looking at all the top players on the U.S. servers, the price increase do not seem to have disrupted the balance too much. I know for a lot of mid-range payers it has, but top payers are already at the end again.

 

[Thistleknot]

Devman,
I'm like you. A 48-year old gamer who has seen a lot over the years.

I know that there are always those that want to be number 1, but I don't see this game as competitive. At least the ranking seems to be low priority for most people. Ranking is nice so that you can measure up against other players, but more in a friendly competition way rather than the "I'm going to beat you" competition way. Since I have chosen never to spend money on this game, I use ranking to see how my skills as a city builder stack up against those that have chosen to spend money. I'm not number 1, but I would say I'm doing fairly well.

There are definitely balance issues with the game, but I think a lot of those issues come from changes that Inno has made. I like the idea of the new combat system, but it needs to be balanced so that players have a chance to win combats that are not in the Goldilocks zone. The limitations the Inno has imposed on gaining expansions, either through expense or the combat system, will eventually be the death of this game. The whole concept of players scouting too far needs to be scrapped.

The game is about space management. There are built in limitations already that make the game challenging and fun. There is no need to remove the players abilities to get space if they are willing to put forth the effort to get it. If the effort is gaining expansions from purchasing diamonds, then limit how many are available as it was tied in to the Main Hall originally. Do not make it cost prohibitive. If the effort is to gain expansions from trying to conquer the world, do not make the combats impossible and the negotiations outrageous. The combat system is good, just rebalance the troop and squad levels, as well as the negotiations costs, as you go outward.

The expansion cost change does not effect me in the least. I think it shows a lack of goodwill toward all of the players of the game.

 

[DeletedUser4576]

I see there's a 20% discount sale on diamonds today. Normally I would have bought some but even with the discount it would cost $50 to buy enough for one expansion. There's really nothing else I need diamonds for so No Sale here. If your revenues are down, hope you give some thought to how that might be connected the cost of expansions.