Creating more troops than you will ever need...

[Smooper]

@ed1960 I am in chapter 9 Woodelves

 

[StarLoad]

I should have asked if you were Elf or Human, but Cracki's advice is spot on Also Craft any Vallorian Valors you can the Free troops are the best HM, IMO, and FREE is best.

Ed

 

[Mykan]

The theory is fairly simplistic, the application a little more complex as it needs to tailor to each person, race and chapter.
Basic principles to maximise army:

• Production - Produce as many troops as possible as much as possible
• Prevention - Prevent as many troop losses as possible

Production

• Have all 3 military production buildings in your town. More buildings means more troops produced every hour
• Have training size sufficient that you can produce troops 24/7. No set amount of armories but generally more is better. If you log every 3 hours and barely sleep you will get away with less armories then someone who is on every 9-12 hours. Have a time buffer of a coupe hours more than necessary also helps take the pressure off
• Look for buildings/wonders that give bonuses to training - Simia sampiens is a classic example, I think there is a temp event building too
  • A fed Brown bear also fits here - See Crackies guide as it has a section on strategies around this
• Look for buildings/wonders that provide free troops - Now be careful here as some buildings are not as efficient as they might seem and it will likely take some experimenting in each town to figure it out.
  • Wonders work on your squad size so researching optional SS techs increases their output
• Focus on troops you need, don't waste time with buildings and troops you aren't using. This is important in the case of wonders and prevention of losses. So if you never use LR then don't make those troops or buildings to boost them (Yes it is intentionally a bad example)
• Win troop instants from events
• Utilise time and supply instants earnt every week in spire to increase production. Plan best time to use these along with best troop/production building. If one building is several hours slower than the others consider if it is really worth speeding up more of those troops verse the building that makes units faster

Prevention

• Know how spire and tournament squad sizes are calculated and be mindful to minimise increasing your troop size
  • Plan wonder levels carefully
• Build and use boost buildings/wonders
• Build the phoenix that restores lost troops
• Build instants to replace lost troops
• Learn which units are best against what
• Learn what mixes work well with a variety of enemy combos and in tournaments learn the thresholds where these combinations have to adjust as difficulty gets harder. This will also help you with gauging what temp boosts to use.
• Know when to cater, etc.

I have a felling I have missed something as there is a lot of different aspects

For lower level towns some of the free troop buildings from events can be very beneficial. Look at your current troops and what is offered and see if it is a good option for your race and chapter. Sometimes a level 1 troop that you cant get for 5 chapters might be better than the 2 star troop you can train now.

Of course with all of this you need to have town management behind it to back you up in terms of space, and supply production. Spire is your friend so use it and get in a fellowship that understands that so you get even more benefit from it.

 

[Darielle]

Here's the stats of the military/help wonders I have, and others that I dont:

My wonders:

Needles, at level 16, gives Light Range Units 124% damage boost. It also boosts barracks training speed by 60%.

Martial Monastery: Level 21: gives me 122.5% troop health.

Dwarven Bulwark, level 16: Gives me 5114 Training Capacity Bonus. It also produces 5,114 Light melee every 3 hours.

Prosperity Towers, level 16. I add this in because I need so many supplies making troops, and this is a lifesaver. It gives me an extra 6 hours on power of provision spells and provides a 260% boost to the effect of the PoP spells. Plus it gives 195K supplies every 3 hours.

Shrine of the Shrewdy Shrooms: level 7: gives me 2327 training capacity bonus and 2770 light range troops every 3 hours.

Temple of the Toads: level 16 gives me 124% boost to heavy range units. Also produces 853 golems every 3 hours.

Pyramid of Purification, level 11: Produces 640 Treants every 3 hours.

Simia Sapiens level 16: boosts my units production by 124 percent.


Ones I don't have (all level 1 shown):

Heroes Forge: gives Heavy Melee Units damage boost

Flying Academy: boosts mercenary camp training speed. Also gives 320 barracks mages every 3 hours.

Victory Springs: boosts light melee damage by 106%. Also boosts training ground speed by 15 percent.

Tournament Arena: I believe this gives drones? 640 in 3 hours

Shrine of the Champions: I can't really tell what the picture is, but I believe it gives orc warriors, 640 in 3 hours.

 

[StarLoad]

Flying Academy: boosts mercenary camp training speed. Also gives 320 barracks mages every 3 hours.

Just curious as to why not?

 

[DeletedUser26243]

One tip often overlooked is when you should be sending troops off to battle, I tell members of my FS and all the prior ones the same advice.
Cater to your heart's content up to CH 8 after that you need to start fighting. This is because until around chapter 8 your troops are just fodder for the enemy troops, Yes you can boost your weak troops to do better, but I say save all your troops, make them 24/7, and your boosts until you are capable of fighting effectively. If you want to fight use the first 8 Tourney provinces, unboosted, and up to the second or third gate on the Spire as a practice to learn the ways of fighting. I personally cater the low easy provinces and fight the rest of the way to a normal 30 provinces.

Others may disagree but we all have our own path in life.

Ed

What chapter r u in to do 30 provinces?

 

[crackie]

Just curious as to why not?

I agree with Ed. Free Buddies!

I also find it odd to have a Needles and no Flying Academy or Victory Springs. Training Grounds usually lags the furthest behind on production because the techs for Training Grounds come so late in the game. My second city is at middle of Elementals so no Victory Springs yet. My Needles there is at 29 waiting on scraping enough sentients to bring it to 30. Since my Needles is making my Barracks super speedy, I need the armory/Shrewdy/Bulwark combo to lengthen that out to 10+ hrs. But without Victory Springs, my Training Ground lags way behind everyone else and the queue is almost doubled at 24hrs! Gotta make Mist Walker bait (Dryads) faster! I can’t wait to put a Victory Springs down!

What chapter r u in to do 30 provinces?

My 2nd city is doing 30 to 6* since Halfling.

 

[ajqtrz]

The following is repetitive. It's pretty much a short, far less detailed, version of what Mykan said above. I just missed that post. Sorry. AJ

Another strategy is to fight as little as possible. After all, if you want maximum troops and don't use them, even a small amount of troop production will get you there. I have a beta city in chapter 9 or so and I have lots and lots of troops because I only fight when required. So I know it works. Which is sort of my point. If you want a good deal of troops you can do as others above have suggested -- which is mainly on troop production, or you can do some troop conservation.

Troop conservation means you either fight less or you fight more efficiently. I suspect that since you are asking the question you want to fight a lot. So the avoid fights is out. That means, along with all the production suggestions you should, I think, start with how to fight efficiently. Lots of tutorials on that so I'll not bore you with my "superior" ways (LOL).

AJ

 

[Gkyr]

I also find it odd to have a Needles and no Flying Academy or Victory Springs. Training Grounds usually lags the furthest behind on production because the techs for Training Grounds come so late in the game.

There are two currents in battle readiness as you have yourself indicated.

The first is troop strength: successful attack and successful defense. Increased battle costs just subvert this.
Only the Martial Monastery (Sanctuary), Needles, Dragon Academy, 'Toads, Victory Springs and Heroes Forge give buff squad stats, and VS and HF are useless if one doesn't rely upon melee. Therefore, Flying Academy, VS and HF levels just add to the cost of battle.

The second is the ability to replace dead troops. As you well know, but for the sake of discussion, this is a must for most players who Auto-fight. These require the three 'turbo-chargers' of Needles, VS and FA working in concert with the 'training bulk' enhancers of Dwarven Bulwark, 'Shrooms and Simia (very inefficient in this regard). These wonders create a self-fulfilling prophecy in that leveling them up to produce more troops also has the effect of making it necessary to apply more troops in each battle.

I and others have cleaved to the first philosophy; it is much more fun to apply strategy throughout each battle but this approach is very limited. Once I reached and vanquished 50 provinces times 6 rounds the cost to me in time started to become overwhelming.

 

[Darielle]

Just curious as to why not?

No reason except no room. I want to get to it soon.

 

[Darielle]

I agree with Ed. Free Buddies!

I also find it odd to have a Needles and no Flying Academy or Victory Springs. Training Grounds usually lags the furthest behind on production because the techs for Training Grounds come so late in the game. My second city is at middle of Elementals so no Victory Springs yet. My Needles there is at 29 waiting on scraping enough sentients to bring it to 30. Since my Needles is making my Barracks super speedy, I need the armory/Shrewdy/Bulwark combo to lengthen that out to 10+ hrs. But without Victory Springs, my Training Ground lags way behind everyone else and the queue is almost doubled at 24hrs! Gotta make Mist Walker bait (Dryads) faster! I can’t wait to put a Victory Springs down!


My 2nd city is doing 30 to 6* since Halfling.

You're right ... I didn't set things up right to begin with and now I'm sorry. But as soon as I get through the chapter from hell (17), I will be changing that and adding a flying academy.

 

[StarLoad]

What chapter r u in to do 30 provinces?

I have been able to do 30+ provinces since S&D(ch10) on my main ( now at level 16) and I can cater to 30 provinces on my Woodelves city for 3 full rounds before I have to battle.

My main just did 58 provinces for 6 rounds a few weeks ago during a push week for our FS.

 

[crackie]

The first is troop strength: successful attack and successful defense. Increased battle costs just subvert this.

Battle costs as it relates to wonder is generally overblown and fraught with fear mongering. I am a chapter behind you but my wonder levels are almost double yours and we have comparable tourney average if we extend beyond the 3 weeks elvenstats averages. If people actually look at the formula for themselves instead of going by what other people say, there is a 0.003 coefficient in front of the wonder level variable in the CAL formula, which significantly mutes the effect of wonder levels. That’s a factor of less than 1¢ to a dollar! If that’s what blows someone’s budget, then they’re not budgeting right, but it ain’t the wonders to blame! For most players, wonder levels has the smallest affect on CAL. One should be aware wonder levels affect CAL but it should be tempered to like “Maybe I shouldn’t build every single wonder available” versus “This game is going to be unplayable because I made a wonder upgrade”. Use discernment on what wonders to build to supplement your playing style, but no need to freak out. There are also several bigger cities in my FS, some already done with chap 19, who have even more maxed out wonders than me, but doing even more in tourney weekly. They are also strictly autofighters. None of us buy into the wonder fear mongering. Right now I am doing nothing but working to max out Simia and Timewarp…also know as sitting around waiting for seeds.

VS and HF are useless if one doesn't rely upon melee. Therefore, Flying Academy, VS and HF levels just add to the cost of battle.

I very much detest Heavy Melee and almost added an entire chapter to my tutorial dedicated to complaining about them. I avoided HF for the longest time, but in the end, caved. Fact is, one of the tourneys is dominant in pesky Light Melee. Normally I would very much prefer using Heavy Range against them, but it’s not a viable solution in the very high provinces when enemy numbers grossly outnumber you. Since Light Melee acts before Heavy Range and there is no way you can kill a stack in one round, that tourney essentially becomes mostly a melee brawl in the upper provinces. The Heavy Range’s defense bonuses against Light Melee becomes insignificant due to their sheer overwhelming numbers. Therefore, no matter what HR units you use, they will still take heavy toll. Admittedly, I probably buff less on health than most people (1UUU) so I’ll likely feel it more in the upper provinces, but when I was able to do those provinces consistently, it meant caving and plopping down a HF, because otherwise HM only gets a bump from Fire Phoenix.

As to VF, besides producing Mist Walker fodder in Dryads, the Training Grounds is good for Orc Strategists. I don’t use them too much, but Cerebus is far more usable than Drone Riders too. The amount of real estate I need to get enough OS from Ground of Orc Strategists compared to how many I get in the time it takes to train just one stack is laughable. It’s just way faster to have Orc Nests and occasionally train a stack in my Training Ground than have 50 GotOS. Whatever I don’t use can also go towards techs and catering. Most units will have a niche use. Even if you don’t use them predominantly, it’s better to have them than not. To have my Training Ground pump out troops at a significantly slower rate than the other two feels like tying one hand behind my back for no reason. Just my opinions. Obviously the correct way is whatever works!

 

[StarLoad]

I very much detest Heavy Melee...

Fact is, one of the tourneys is dominant in pesky Light Melee.

Yes and for that I personally suggest the Vallorian Valor to make the V-Guards which are some of the best "free" units you can get when compared to their peers.
As to the GotOS, I have had 10 running since ch 7 or 8 and am now down to 5 they just pump out them Orc Strats and when I need them they are great. but I have not had space issues since O&G so its not a problem for me YMMV.

Cerebus is far more usable than...

I think the Dogs are the Best LM of all and hands down that is all I really produce in the training grounds.

Ed

 

[DeletedUser26243]

I have been able to do 30+ provinces since S&D(ch10) on my main ( now at level 16) and I can cater to 30 provinces on my Woodelves city for 3 full rounds before I have to battle.

My main just did 58 provinces for 6 rounds a few weeks ago during a push week for our FS.

Nice I best step it up In in halflings I just stick with my 20 lol n b4 that it was 13 I guess a good time to see how it goes is during the FA Feeling Daring

 

[StarLoad]

Nice I best step it up In in halflings I just stick with my 20 lol n b4 that it was 13 I guess a good time to see how it goes is during the FA Feeling Daring

Never go more than you are able to in comfort, just because others can do more, my city is Fighting based and parked so I have many more advantages then others.

Ed

 

[Mykan]

Battle costs as it relates to wonder is generally overblown and fraught with fear mongering.

While there is a level of truth to this there is also a warning not to be ignored.

Looking at elvenstats I doubt your wonders are at the point your feeling it. You also have to remember a number of players got the new system thrust upon them and the "frog was dropped in the boiling water", but players not at that point are the "frog happily swimming in the pot of warm water unaware it is sitting on a fire". Part of the trouble is that we don't have a good concept of how many wonder levels is too many and "too many" depends on your goal and skill.

If a person only ever plans on 2-3K in a tourny then wonders will never be an issue for them. I know people who have a huge amount (600+, 800+) of wonders that can pull 6-7k in a tourny every week. Now if that or less is your goal then who cares about wonder levels, just go for broke and have fun. Just know you wont be making the top 100 let alone top 10 without dropping a ridiculous number of boosters (based on US1 tourny scores).

A persons skill in combat also comes into play. You could have 2 people with around 320 wonder levels and have vastly different results in tournament due to skill and strategy (ignoring manual combat which of course is a benefit). So a less skilled player will find a lower number of wonders holds them back more.

The other hesitancy around wonders is people don't like deleting them especially a 10+ or worse yet a level 30 wonder. So the fear is often that they only realise they have "overbuilt" for themselves and by then it is too late they can't easily reduce the number. Because that means deleting something they worked very hard to level.

If however you want a 20k+ score every week...well its not to say don't build wonders but you had better be very intentional about what you do. That is not the average player and a player like that is going to be well skilled with a strong strategy.

 

[DeletedUser26243]

Never go more than you are able to in comfort, just because others can do more, my city is Fighting based and parked so I have many more advantages

Never go more than you are able to in comfort, just because others can do more, my city is Fighting based and parked so I have many more advantages then others.

Ed

Well it went good my except I could only do 28 provinces that all I had open (I never over scout it helps me out I think any ways not too) I guess my city is built for both I climb spire fighting n do the T catering unless it involves orcs or mana. But anyways will just stay at my quota cause Im in great FS where we all put in to reach the goal

 

[Gkyr]

For most players, wonder levels has the smallest affect on CAL. One should be aware wonder levels affect CAL but it should be tempered to like “Maybe I shouldn’t build every single wonder available” versus “This game is going to be unplayable because I made a wonder upgrade”.

My most recent experience, going back months, is that I have added AW levels to non-buffing AWs (namely Timewarp and Simia) and have REALly noticed the difference in the cost of battles. Difficulty, too. Previously, I had only upgraded buffing AWs.

Other things such as mandatory squad upgrades, expansions (always premium and only during discount), and chapter (16) progression are all quite minimal during this period.

I am skeptical, thinking that minmaxgame's regression formula-fit, or back-engineering is not inclusive for all factors; my experience does not fit the numbers.

And as far as difficulty goes in contrast to the cost: it may well be the the minmaxgame regression describes only cost but I put forward the possibility that there is another algorithm working that increases the difficulty which - as you know - can be increased by tweaking the opposing forces slightly and by terrain even while keeping the battle ratio the same as it might have been at less costly levels.

The reason I say this is because I monitor the degree of a battle success by by losses according to slot and not by numbers of troops killed. For a given round for a given province level in the Tourney if I usually lose 1/2 slot of Archers and 1/2 slot of Golems, then that is going to happen, approximately, every time that type of Tourney comes around. So it does not matter if 1/2 slot is 320 Archers or 3000 Archers; I am using the 'slot metric' as a measure of success (=difficulty) and not cost.

But lately my losses by slot have been going up, despite the fact that I recently achieved 3 star status for the Vallorians, Rangers and Frogs. So when someone discusses and insists upon the minmaxgame regression as pertaining only to cost, I say fine, but then another algorithm is in effect.

 

[Gkyr]

To have my Training Ground pump out troops at a significantly slower rate than the other two feels like tying one hand behind my back for no reason. Just my opinions. Obviously the correct way is whatever works!

Agreed.
What works for me is a manual fighting style with multiple strategic retreats, where feasible, which loses so few squads that if the Training Ground completes only two squad slots overnight that is enough for me. I have used the Brown Bear maybe three times ever.