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    Your Elvenar Team

Cross Tier Trades

ekarat

Well-Known Member
Right now (with Players A and B being the ones I avoid. I am way of Player C.):
Player A gems/silk
Player A scrolls/steel
Player A dust/marble
Player B <no trades at the moment>
Player C elixir/silk
Player D gems/silk
Player E scrolls/marble (very small quantities) -- 31k points.

Note that 2 of these are giving away scrolls, and 3 of these are looking for silk. Only 1 is T3->T1.

This may or may not be indicative of the world at large, but it is indicative of what I regularly see.
 

ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious Old Dog
Even though they are much better than before, the new ratios are still very bad for many players.

T1 is simply in much higher demand than T3, always has been.

That's why you see pages and pages of T3 for T1 but almost never find 100K planks up for dust.

As for the whole: "If you don't want it, don't take it" argument that is sure to pop up again soon,
Advanced players who have a big stash of goods like to help out and can clear the entire trader of requests around them in a huge area by simply taking all of the 2-star trades. If they become unbalanced they simply post a few huge reverse trades and another big player will take them.

This does not work with cross trades: trying to undo a few million in cross trades has a near-zero success rate.

I've tested this extensively in just my own fellowships where 1 allows cross trades and 2 do not. The one that allows it has several good little trades from newer players who need them hidden at the bottom or middle because the bigger players can't be bothered to click through the mine-field of undesirable trades.

On the 2 servers where it is disallowed the trader is cleared multiple times per day by several players. It's worth noting that many of my FS members play on both, and behave differently because of the rule.

Demand is the key here, and, as you say, if T1 is in more demand it will be worth more than the other two tiers. For that reason it isn't traded "up" as often. But it is traded up. I regularly trade steel for T2 silk and crystal. I even offer a 5% discount. How can I do that and not run out of steel? By having 9 lvl 31 steel buildings. After the last FA I had 12 million steel... a bit of a surplus. It wasn't worth 1 to 1.5 of silk or crystal to me, so I sold it at about 1 to 1.45. That this is a rare situation is a given. But it is a way to get my silk and crystal. And it works. So "up" cross tier trading can work, you just have to be set up to make it work.

An "undesireable" trade? It's undesirable to the "bigger traders" but it's, obviously, not to the one posting. So who's to say what's desirable and what's not. The inconvenience of having to scroll through pages and pages of "undesirable" trades is part of "shopping." You go to the store to shop and you have to go through a lot of things you won't buy to find one you will. Same here. If the "bigger players" aren't willing to be "bothered" to scroll through all the "undesirable" trades, should that be the focus of the problem rather than you evaluation of the trades as "undesirable" -- a view from the potential purchaser's reference point? In other words, I see the problem here is that somebody -- usually a "bigger player" doesn't like the inconvenience of scrolling through a bunch of trade he/she doesn't like and decides to label them as "undesirable." Then a fellowship of "bigger players" makes it a rule because they don't like the inconvenience of all that terrible scrolling. What is the problem here, again?

Brilliant. Too often newer players think that "balance" means an equal production, so they'll have 4 of each factory as soon as T3 is unlocked. Naturally, the chapter/tournament/spire demands are nowhere near equal and so they cross-trade the excess away. As I said, this works for awhile because their FS wants to "help out" and can easily absorb those trades but it's a harsh lesson later.

Now here's the thing. If the ratios set by the devs is "balance," why wouldn't a balanced approach in a fellowship be acceptable. If the fellowship is balanced in production? Now, of course, having 4 of all 9 basic goods (sentient is different) would be inefficient for the city, but 4 of each boosted should, in theory, be perfect. But, as you say the "chapter/tournament/spire demands are nowhere near equal" and thus they have to cross-tier trade the rest away. And why should they? Again, it appears to me that some players just don't like all that scrolling and that's the problem, not the cross-tier trading.

And finally, what makes cross-tier trading a "harsh lesson later?" Is the lesson that people get mad if you try to consistently use cross-tier trading?

AJ
 

Silver Lady

Well-Known Member
Excluding same tier trades on my little section of Har these are the cross tiers posted this morning:
Player A dust/crystal
Player A dust/silk
Player B crystal/steel
Player B silk/marble
Player D elixir/steel
Player E elixir/marble
Player E elixir/crystal
Player E dust/marble
Player E dust/crystal
Player F scrolls/steel

Note Player E has very few manufacturers (like 1 ea steel, planks, scrolls, dust & gems and is in Orcs chap) but lots of event buildings & 2 ea of all the traveling merchants and just one endless scrolls connected to a gum tree & mana plant but not a full set.

I also didn’t look at 0-star trades or those that had a traders fee. They were slightly more same tier than cross @ 1.5 same to 1 cross.
 

ekarat

Well-Known Member
Demand is the key here, and, as you say, if T1 is in more demand it will be worth more than the other two tiers. For that reason it isn't traded "up" as often. But it is traded up. I regularly trade steel for T2 silk and crystal. I even offer a 5% discount. How can I do that and not run out of steel? By having 9 lvl 31 steel buildings. After the last FA I had 12 million steel... a bit of a surplus. It wasn't worth 1 to 1.5 of silk or crystal to me, so I sold it at about 1 to 1.45. That this is a rare situation is a given. But it is a way to get my silk and crystal. And it works. So "up" cross tier trading can work, you just have to be set up to make it work.

An "undesireable" trade? It's undesirable to the "bigger traders" but it's, obviously, not to the one posting. So who's to say what's desirable and what's not. The inconvenience of having to scroll through pages and pages of "undesirable" trades is part of "shopping." You go to the store to shop and you have to go through a lot of things you won't buy to find one you will. Same here. If the "bigger players" aren't willing to be "bothered" to scroll through all the "undesirable" trades, should that be the focus of the problem rather than you evaluation of the trades as "undesirable" -- a view from the potential purchaser's reference point? In other words, I see the problem here is that somebody -- usually a "bigger player" doesn't like the inconvenience of scrolling through a bunch of trade he/she doesn't like and decides to label them as "undesirable." Then a fellowship of "bigger players" makes it a rule because they don't like the inconvenience of all that terrible scrolling. What is the problem here, again?



Now here's the thing. If the ratios set by the devs is "balance," why wouldn't a balanced approach in a fellowship be acceptable. If the fellowship is balanced in production? Now, of course, having 4 of all 9 basic goods (sentient is different) would be inefficient for the city, but 4 of each boosted should, in theory, be perfect. But, as you say the "chapter/tournament/spire demands are nowhere near equal" and thus they have to cross-tier trade the rest away. And why should they? Again, it appears to me that some players just don't like all that scrolling and that's the problem, not the cross-tier trading.

And finally, what makes cross-tier trading a "harsh lesson later?" Is the lesson that people get mad if you try to consistently use cross-tier trading?

AJ

1) Part of my point is that I'm seeing T2 in more demand than T1 now. This did not used to be true, but I think things are changing that way. I will gladly give away T1s for T2s. I have 26 million T1s, with only 2 manufactories, and I never post T1 trades. I have a little over 1 million crystals and silk combined. And if you look at previous posts in this thread, I'm not the only one low in T2s.

2) An undesirable trade is one that will not be picked up by neighbors. It might still be picked up by FS members, but I consider that charity and not a sign that the market is well. The backlog is not the problem. It is the visible evidence that there is a problem.

The hash lesson is that eventually, the player will become big enough to not get all their goods via charity. That is, if I offer 100 scrolls to ask for 100 silk, someone might pick up the trade out of charity. If I post 100,000 scrolls for 100,000 silk, people might not be as charitable.

3) No FS I have ever been in over the years has cared a whole lot about balanced boosts. In my current FS, over half are boosted in planks, over half are boosted in scrolls, over half are boosted in dust, and about 1/4 are boosted in all 3. I myself am boosted in all 3.
 

ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious Old Dog
An undesirable trade is one that will not be picked up by neighbors. It might still be picked up by FS members, but I consider that charity and not a sign that the market is well. The backlog is not the problem. It is the visible evidence that there is a problem.

The hash lesson is that eventually, the player will become big enough to not get all their goods via charity. That is, if I offer 100 scrolls to ask for 100 silk, someone might pick up the trade out of charity. If I post 100,000 scrolls for 100,000 silk, people might not be as charitable.

But it's only undesirable to the neighbors, not to the poster. That's my point. Looking at it from one side isn't looking it from both sides and thus, if one desires and the other doesn't, it's a wash. The "problem" is that the poster is posting trades which are not moving as fast as other ones. If we free ourselves from training new players that there is a "standard" exchange rate, we free ourselves from posters assuming a 1:1 ratio of the same tier goods. Once they don't assume they will more quickly post trades with a more reasonable chance of being picked up. The harsh lesson might be they would be better off just going with their sense of the the value of their goods instead of assuming the "Inno Gods" and their supporters know best.

As for the charity, the value of 100k scrolls for 100k silk is equal once you add the intangible aspect of "charity." The "charity" added is part of the value of the goods offered in exchange. At 100,000 the value of "charity" is insufficient to make the total transaction realistic. As I've argued before, the value of an exchange is in totality and includes the intangibles, like "charity." To leave those out in an exchange is to miss opportunities for profit and to often spend more than necessary. Including the intangibles when assessing an exchange means you get a more accurate assessment of the transaction.

AJ
 
Last edited:

Darielle

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
Okay, I just looked in my trader now. Here are the only crosstiers:

10,000 gems offered; wants 17,500 steel
500 scrolls offered; wants 740 marble
400 scrolls offered; wants 590 planks

There are multiples of each of the above; the gems are from one player and both the scroll trades from a second.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
Okay, I just looked in my trader now. Here are the only crosstiers:

10,000 gems offered; wants 17,500 steel
500 scrolls offered; wants 740 marble
400 scrolls offered; wants 590 planks

There are multiples of each of the above; the gems are from one player and both the scroll trades from a second.

So that first one is a very good 3-star trade, because at 2-star it should be 10,000 for 22,500. I am boosted in gems, but I would still take it because I have a million or so more steel than I do gems. And I am not against burning gems for KP, if I need some in a hurry and don't feel like spending tons of coins.
 

samidodamage

Buddy Fan Club member
Well, I didn't keep up with player names or search for any data on their cities. What I've done is just check trader to see what cross trades are there starting at ~5:45pm eastern yesterday and ending at ~8:10pm eastern today, so tracked it for a bit over 24hrs. I recorded twice last night and 3 times today. I recorded the goods offered, the goods demanded, the star value assigned, when I first saw the trade there and when I saw the trade was gone. I did this in both cities and got very different results in the 2 worlds. Here's the spreadsheets by world; you'll need to click on the World name to open them; I put them in Spoilers so they wouldn't have to be loaded by everyone every time they come to this thread:
OfferedDemandedStar RatingDate/TimeGone by
5000marble3033crystal33/28 5:45 PM3/29 12:45 PM
5000marble3033crystal33/28 5:45 PM3/29 12:45 PM
5000marble3033crystal33/28 5:45 PM3/29 12:45 PM
5000marble3033crystal33/28 5:45 PM3/29 12:45 PM
5000marble3033crystal33/28 5:45 PM3/29 12:45 PM
5000marble3033crystal33/28 5:45 PM3/29 12:45 PM
5000marble3033crystal33/28 5:45 PM3/29 12:45 PM
5000marble3033crystal33/28 5:45 PM3/29 12:45 PM
200scrolls300marble23/28 9:02 PM
200scrolls300planks23/28 9:02 PM3/29 7:45 PM
1000scrolls1800planks23/29 12:45 PM
1000scrolls1800planks23/29 12:45 PM
1000scrolls1800planks23/29 12:45 PM
57marble10 elixir33/29 3:30 PM3/29 7:45 PM
OfferedDemandedStar RatingDate/TimeGone by
10Kgems22.5Ksteel23/28 5:58 PM
10Kgems22.5Ksteel23/28 5:58 PM
10Kgems22.5Ksteel23/28 5:58 PM
10Kgems22.5Ksteel23/28 5:58 PM
500gems1125planks23/28 5:58 PM3/29 12:35 PM
500gems1125planks23/28 5:58 PM3/29 12:35 PM
500gems1125planks23/28 5:58 PM3/29 12:35 PM
500gems1125planks23/28 5:58 PM3/29 12:35 PM
1000gems1500crystal23/28 8:59 PM3/29 12:35 PM
1000gems1500crystal23/28 8:59 PM3/29 12:35 PM
1000gems1500crystal23/28 8:59 PM3/29 12:35 PM
1000gems1500crystal23/28 8:59 PM3/29 12:35 PM
1000gems1500crystal23/28 8:59 PM3/29 12:35 PM
1000gems1500silk23/28 8:59 PM3/29 12:35 PM
1000gems1500silk23/28 8:59 PM3/29 12:35 PM
1000gems1500silk23/28 8:59 PM3/29 12:35 PM
1000elixir1400scrolls33/29 12:35 PM3/29 3:45 PM
1000elixir1400scrolls33/29 12:35 PM3/29 3:45 PM
1000elixir1400scrolls33/29 12:35 PM3/29 3:45 PM
1000elixir1400scrolls33/29 12:35 PM3/29 3:45 PM
1000elixir1400scrolls33/29 12:35 PM3/29 3:45 PM
1000dust1400scrolls33/29 12:35 PM3/29 3:45 PM
1000dust1400scrolls33/29 12:35 PM3/29 3:45 PM
1000dust1400scrolls33/29 12:35 PM3/29 3:45 PM
1000dust1400scrolls33/29 12:35 PM3/29 3:45 PM
1000dust1400scrolls33/29 12:35 PM3/29 3:45 PM
1000elixir2200steel33/29 12:35 PM3/29 3:45 PM
1000elixir2200steel33/29 12:35 PM3/29 3:45 PM
1000elixir2200steel33/29 12:35 PM3/29 3:45 PM
1000elixir2200steel33/29 12:35 PM3/29 3:45 PM
1000elixir2200steel33/29 12:35 PM3/29 3:45 PM
1000dust2200steel33/29 12:35 PM
1000dust2200steel33/29 12:35 PM
1000dust2200steel33/29 12:35 PM
1000dust2200steel33/29 12:35 PM
1000dust2200steel33/29 12:35 PM
100gems150scrolls23/29 12:35 PM3/29 3:45 PM
100gems225marble23/29 12:35 PM3/29 3:45 PM
100gems225marble23/29 12:35 PM3/29 3:45 PM
100gems225marble23/29 12:35 PM
100gems225steel23/29 12:35 PM
100gems225planks23/29 12:35 PM
100gems225planks23/29 12:35 PM3/29 8:10 PM
100crystal150marble23/29 8:10 PM
Elcysandir:
Had way fewer cross trades than Khel; most of Elcy cross tiers were upstream. The largest amounts were T1:T2 at 5K for 3.33K. The downstream trades are the only ones still in the trader; only one downstream trade got taken. The largest downstream amounts were T2:T1 at 1K for 1.8K.
Khelonaar:
Had zero upstream trades; every single one was downstream. The ones demanding T2 goods were taken fairly quickly and may have even been faster than my tracking indicates since a bulk of them had a 15hr span between me recording them as there and finding them taken. The T3:T1 trades seem to move the slowest, with the four trades at 10K for 22.5K still there over 24hrs later. Other than those 4 trades, everything else was under 3K.
While not enough data to truly deduce anything, it does lend credence to the notion that T2 goods are in more demand.
 

ekarat

Well-Known Member
Well, I didn't keep up with player names or search for any data on their cities. What I've done is just check trader to see what cross trades are there starting at ~5:45pm eastern yesterday and ending at ~8:10pm eastern today, so tracked it for a bit over 24hrs. I recorded twice last night and 3 times today. I recorded the goods offered, the goods demanded, the star value assigned, when I first saw the trade there and when I saw the trade was gone. I did this in both cities and got very different results in the 2 worlds. Here's the spreadsheets by world; you'll need to click on the World name to open them; I put them in Spoilers so they wouldn't have to be loaded by everyone every time they come to this thread:
OfferedDemandedStar RatingDate/TimeGone by
5000marble3033crystal33/28 5:45 PM3/29 12:45 PM
5000marble3033crystal33/28 5:45 PM3/29 12:45 PM
5000marble3033crystal33/28 5:45 PM3/29 12:45 PM
5000marble3033crystal33/28 5:45 PM3/29 12:45 PM
5000marble3033crystal33/28 5:45 PM3/29 12:45 PM
5000marble3033crystal33/28 5:45 PM3/29 12:45 PM
5000marble3033crystal33/28 5:45 PM3/29 12:45 PM
5000marble3033crystal33/28 5:45 PM3/29 12:45 PM
200scrolls300marble23/28 9:02 PM
200scrolls300planks23/28 9:02 PM3/29 7:45 PM
1000scrolls1800planks23/29 12:45 PM
1000scrolls1800planks23/29 12:45 PM
1000scrolls1800planks23/29 12:45 PM
57marble10 elixir33/29 3:30 PM3/29 7:45 PM
OfferedDemandedStar RatingDate/TimeGone by
10Kgems22.5Ksteel23/28 5:58 PM
10Kgems22.5Ksteel23/28 5:58 PM
10Kgems22.5Ksteel23/28 5:58 PM
10Kgems22.5Ksteel23/28 5:58 PM
500gems1125planks23/28 5:58 PM3/29 12:35 PM
500gems1125planks23/28 5:58 PM3/29 12:35 PM
500gems1125planks23/28 5:58 PM3/29 12:35 PM
500gems1125planks23/28 5:58 PM3/29 12:35 PM
1000gems1500crystal23/28 8:59 PM3/29 12:35 PM
1000gems1500crystal23/28 8:59 PM3/29 12:35 PM
1000gems1500crystal23/28 8:59 PM3/29 12:35 PM
1000gems1500crystal23/28 8:59 PM3/29 12:35 PM
1000gems1500crystal23/28 8:59 PM3/29 12:35 PM
1000gems1500silk23/28 8:59 PM3/29 12:35 PM
1000gems1500silk23/28 8:59 PM3/29 12:35 PM
1000gems1500silk23/28 8:59 PM3/29 12:35 PM
1000elixir1400scrolls33/29 12:35 PM3/29 3:45 PM
1000elixir1400scrolls33/29 12:35 PM3/29 3:45 PM
1000elixir1400scrolls33/29 12:35 PM3/29 3:45 PM
1000elixir1400scrolls33/29 12:35 PM3/29 3:45 PM
1000elixir1400scrolls33/29 12:35 PM3/29 3:45 PM
1000dust1400scrolls33/29 12:35 PM3/29 3:45 PM
1000dust1400scrolls33/29 12:35 PM3/29 3:45 PM
1000dust1400scrolls33/29 12:35 PM3/29 3:45 PM
1000dust1400scrolls33/29 12:35 PM3/29 3:45 PM
1000dust1400scrolls33/29 12:35 PM3/29 3:45 PM
1000elixir2200steel33/29 12:35 PM3/29 3:45 PM
1000elixir2200steel33/29 12:35 PM3/29 3:45 PM
1000elixir2200steel33/29 12:35 PM3/29 3:45 PM
1000elixir2200steel33/29 12:35 PM3/29 3:45 PM
1000elixir2200steel33/29 12:35 PM3/29 3:45 PM
1000dust2200steel33/29 12:35 PM
1000dust2200steel33/29 12:35 PM
1000dust2200steel33/29 12:35 PM
1000dust2200steel33/29 12:35 PM
1000dust2200steel33/29 12:35 PM
100gems150scrolls23/29 12:35 PM3/29 3:45 PM
100gems225marble23/29 12:35 PM3/29 3:45 PM
100gems225marble23/29 12:35 PM3/29 3:45 PM
100gems225marble23/29 12:35 PM
100gems225steel23/29 12:35 PM
100gems225planks23/29 12:35 PM
100gems225planks23/29 12:35 PM3/29 8:10 PM
100crystal150marble23/29 8:10 PM
Elcysandir:
Had way fewer cross trades than Khel; most of Elcy cross tiers were upstream. The largest amounts were T1:T2 at 5K for 3.33K. The downstream trades are the only ones still in the trader; only one downstream trade got taken. The largest downstream amounts were T2:T1 at 1K for 1.8K.
Khelonaar:
Had zero upstream trades; every single one was downstream. The ones demanding T2 goods were taken fairly quickly and may have even been faster than my tracking indicates since a bulk of them had a 15hr span between me recording them as there and finding them taken. The T3:T1 trades seem to move the slowest, with the four trades at 10K for 22.5K still there over 24hrs later. Other than those 4 trades, everything else was under 3K.
While not enough data to truly deduce anything, it does lend credence to the notion that T2 goods are in more demand.

Thank you. It's good to see what other people are seeing. I am seeing more trades offering scrolls for T3 than others are, but I am seeing them. I also see people offering T1 for silk/crystal, but those don't last long. It's the scroll trades that stick around.
 

Darielle

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
I hear you, and it used to be that way, but now it seems to be mostly trades offering scrolls, not T3. Then again, I can't see the entire server's market. Which is part of the reason I ask here, to ask what other people see.

I would like to suggest a thought experiment -- for a month (less, if you'd like), make a mental note of how many trades are offering T3 to get T1 and how many are T2. I am seeing most cross-tier trades for T2 (trading away scrolls or trading T1/3->silk/crystal) and not T3->T1.
My my what a difference a year and a half makes.

I know this is an old thread, but I figured I may as well add to this rather than start a new one on the same subject.

t3 crosstrades are literally spiralling out of control.

On my Dari ID this morning, I had 37 pages of non-sentient trades. 33 of those pages were crosstrades offering t3s for either t2s or t1s.

No one ... and I mean NO ONE ... offers scrolls anymore in cross trades.

On my little ID today, I had only two trades in the trader that were not t3 crosstrades. (offering t3). Around 40 trades total, so that's like 95 percent t3 crosstrades.

I'd give anything to see scrolls offered again.
 

BrinDarby

Well-Known Member
The biggest driver of the T3 surpluss is the approach
the Devs take to event bldgs in reguard to progression
--And-- The levels of goods given..... ( especially with
the new tech tree ) ( my opinion )

Players don't just all sell the same thing unless, all those players
have too many (non std) bldgs that give that same thing. Even
when its an Evolve and gives more as it levels, those levels are
many times giving non usable goods.

Lets take things bldgs give.....
Culture , Population , Supplies(tools) , Coins , T1 , T2 , T3 ,
Orcs , Mana , Seeds , S1 , CC , KP , VS......

*** Since the bldg production resets as bldgs are evolved
or leveled up ....... Then each time this happens you get to
re-choose the following suggestion/tweak........
If a bldg gives, among say pop/cul, "supplies/T1/T2/T3/mana",
then you cannot choose something you can't have yet, but you
CAN choose a lower item... @ a comparable value....
What this does is eliminate the fact that you upgraded your bldg
yet now it gives you stuff you can't really use, thus forcing players
to accept non-usable goods..... And if you're already up there in
levels, you get stuck with the same 'ole crap ya don't need more of.
( like more T3 , and this is NOT a selectable output bldg, only by
evolving or leveling up could production chg )

This is why the bldgs that always give 1 thing no matter what Chapter
it is, are so powerfull and usefull. It is also why the Tech tree change
pushed players 2 levels further, yet they neglected to go back thru
all the litterally thousands of bldgs and re-do thier goods progression.

Inno has set values between levels.... so if a bldg gives lets say , ohhh
Supplies/T1/T2/T3/Mana/Seeds, and lets also say you're already in a
chapter where it gives seeds.... not only would you be able to choose
mana, but also basic goods @ a comparative value ( just like in trader
would be 1000 T3 - 1500 T2 - 2250 T1 ) or even just supplies.

Players currently race thru (are push'd) , and Inno wants that.... into chapters
where the game slows down and for longer periods of time players keep
earning or upgrading bldgs into situations where T3 is primarilly given out.

This then causes those players to attempt to sell off thier useless goods (T3)
for goods they can actually use.
Thus the glut of T3 in the trader.

This can be viewed as 1 step in a standardization of bldgs @SoggyShorts
has suggested ( I can see some cons ) , but it would go a long way to balancing
out goods across the elvenar community..... and before I get the comment
that picking goods is abusable..... you would only get to choose that you
might want , lets say , T2 but not get to choose the +0/+1/+2 on the T2.
Obviously some bldgs, like Pilgrims Manor could still be offered that only
ever gives 1 good.
 

Lelanya

Scroll-Keeper, Keys to the Gems
I always shake my head, when I see mana, seed or sentient generating buildings in low level cities. This is what is causing the big tier 3 jam, is it not? That, and the lack of an adequate amount of Royal Restoration spells to upgrade the best of these once Woodelves, Halflings or Elemental plus levels are reached. We need the whole system to be addressed for a fix to come in.
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
I always shake my head, when I see mana, seed or sentient generating buildings in low level cities. This is what is causing the big tier 3 jam, is it not? That, and the lack of an adequate amount of Royal Restoration spells to upgrade the best of these once Woodelves, Halflings or Elemental plus levels are reached. We need the whole system to be addressed for a fix to come in.
Do they generate those things in low level cities? I though unless you are at the stage to use them, they produce supplies or other tier goods instead
 

Pheryll

Set Designer
Do they generate those things in low level cities? I though unless you are at the stage to use them, they produce supplies or other tier goods instead

In general, it is tier 3 goods before they move on to mana. At one point Inno standardized that transition for the older buildings. I am not sure what @Lelanya's point is. It could be the large production of non-boosted tier 3 goods in lower chapter cities.
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
In general, it is tier 3 goods before they move on to mana. At one point Inno standardized that transition for the older buildings. I am not sure what @Lelanya's point is. It could be the large production of non-boosted tier 3 goods in lower chapter cities.
I don't think that's correct. In general it is supplies before VI, Magical goods for three chapters only VI to VIII, then either Mana all the way, or mana for two chapters followed by seeds. So they really only contribute to Magical goods for three chapters
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
I don't think that's correct. In general it is supplies before VI, Magical goods for three chapters only VI to VIII, then either Mana all the way, or mana for two chapters followed by seeds. So they really only contribute to Magical goods for three chapters

That is true for some buildings, but there are a lot, especially older ones, that always give tier 3 goods. The set with the Jester's Tavern, for example, has one piece that always gives all three tier 3 goods, even in chapter 20. And the most recent set from the Sorcerer's event, I think you were away for that, has three buildings in it, one for each tier 3 good, that always give them, all the way to chapter 20. There are a lot of newer players with that set, so that it a lot of free tier 3 goods out there just from them.
 

Alram

Flippers just flip
Most of the cross tier traders I see are in ch 14. What happens in 14 that might require flooding the market with t3s?
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
That is true for some buildings, but there are a lot, especially older ones, that always give tier 3 goods. The set with the Jester's Tavern, for example, has one piece that always gives all three tier 3 goods, even in chapter 20. And the most recent set from the Sorcerer's event, I think you were away for that, has three buildings in it, one for each tier 3 good, that always give them, all the way to chapter 20. There are a lot of newer players with that set, so that it a lot of free tier 3 goods out there just from them.
Those aren't included in the discussion of which my reply is part. Lelanya was talking about "mana, seed or sentient generating buildings"
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
Those aren't included in the discussion of which my reply is part. Lelanya was talking about "mana, seed or sentient generating buildings"

And my reply to you was about you saying all event buildings that give tier 3 from chapters 6-8 change to mana, etc when upgraded to chapter 9 and beyond, which is wrong.
 
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