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    Your Elvenar Team

Event schedule

SoulsSilhouette

Buddy Fan Club member
I rarely spend the resources to get to the very top of the spire. I'm not a good fighter and I am more focused on helping my fellowships rather than myself, and none of the fellowships I'm in focus on the spire...they are all tourney focused. I always get to the high halls tho. I can generally fight my way through the first boss, but then, negotiation starts and I refuse to dump my resources into something where the most likely outcome for me has been portal profits. I have won a few magic residences ... but only two magic workshops, which I love btw. For an FA, to be able to produce enough blacksmith badges, I need at the very least 20 teleports. So, since I don't have those, I wind up selling things that I have to rebuild. Which is, imho, a collosal waste of resources, but it is what my fellowships need to get through the FA's.
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
I am more focused on helping my fellowships rather than myself
I think the Spire is more important than tourney simply because it's the most steady source of in-game free diamonds. In the group where I am AM, I tell new players to dedicate resources to Spire first, then slowly grow out their tourney scores. The Spire has a definitive finish line. The tourney can go on forever if you have enough scouted provinces. A set finish line means you have a relatively stable target for how much goods/troops are needed to accomplish that goal each week. You can budget for it. Therefore, first strive to get your city capable of covering for the full Spire, and then make even more to start covering tourney.

As far as tourney is concerned, in a group of 25, a player's fair share for a blueprint is 1600pts, which is easily acquired if they just do the first 8 provinces to 5*. Those provinces are easy enough to win autofighting without buffs or fed Fire Phoenix. Takes 2 mins a day, and can be done brushing your teeth or drinking your morning coffee. I do enough tourney to cover for 5 player's fair share and can hold down fort if there are beginner cities among us still learning to find their Spire legs. However, if they are able to climb to the top from Chap 3 (and because everyone is climbing), then it's 250 diamonds a week. This means even if you need to spend diamonds to clear bosses, especially in Lab, you'll still come out each week in the positive on diamonds. This is critical for them to then be able to acquire artifacts for Fire Phoenix, Brown Bear, Polar Bear, and Panda Bear (if they cater). It will prob take at least a year for MA to spit out enough artifacts to fully evolve one so you gotta have those extra diamonds handy early and make the most of it when they do show up in the MA. With those buildings, now everyone's individual cities are elevated to be able to do more, and that elevates the fellowship to also be able to do more overall too, which impacts performance for other group events like tournaments and FAs. If they came to the FS with those buildings already, well now they have a cache of diamonds to spend on whatever else they please, like maybe a second base in an event. Spire is what lets everyone get a premium city without spending a dime. Players who understand this are also self-motivated to climb and it don't require nudging. Skills, I can teach, but attitude, I have to recruit for.

From my perspective, my role as AM is to get my team in best position to compete. We are only as strong as our weakest link so I have to help raise the weakest player's level of play to help my group. I do that by giving them the opportunity to acquire those premo buildings to make other aspects of the game a whole lot easier. With a fed Fire Phoenix, the first 8 provinces becomes a skip in the park and they'll naturally be able to do more tourney. Now they're in position to do full Spire and maybe 5000 in tourney, if they want. The blueprint takes care of itself. Instead of worrying about making 10th chest, you can now shoot for 15 or whatever, especially with Tourney Archive perks. If we're getting 15 or 16 chests in tourney and full Spire, then your FS gains that many more Ghost, Druid Staffs, and Witch Hat badges for FA. A Gold Spire nets you (I think) 7 Druid Staffs each player from the group rewards at the end, which doesn't even count the ones you win from chests! That's 175 Druid badges now possibly available without tying up MA or needing time instants for.
 

Darielle

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
I rarely spend the resources to get to the very top of the spire. I'm not a good fighter and I am more focused on helping my fellowships rather than myself, and none of the fellowships I'm in focus on the spire...they are all tourney focused. I always get to the high halls tho. I can generally fight my way through the first boss, but then, negotiation starts and I refuse to dump my resources into something where the most likely outcome for me has been portal profits. I have won a few magic residences ... but only two magic workshops, which I love btw. For an FA, to be able to produce enough blacksmith badges, I need at the very least 20 teleports. So, since I don't have those, I wind up selling things that I have to rebuild. Which is, imho, a collosal waste of resources, but it is what my fellowships need to get through the FA's.
Ask yourself a question ... if you could trade your two magic workshops, all the magic residences, diamonds, and all the other things you won in the spire and get the goods, coins and supplies you spent instead, would you do it? Most people wouldn't. Yes, you need to spend a ton of goods on the spire ... particularly before you get good enough to really see the benefit of the spire. (And that's the rub ... most people get tired of spending before they see the benefit.) But if you stick with it, you'll see that overall, you are far, far better off having the workshops, diamonds, and spells rather than those goods that believe me, you'll forget about in a month once you've built up again.

As far as portal profits go, gosh, I used to hate them bitterly. Now I wonder why. I spend them like candy and will never have too many, and while it's more difficult to use them in chapter 17 than it was in the previous 7 or 8 chapters, I still wouldn't want to do without them. I'm sorry I ever dissed them. You may be glad, one day, that you have them. Depending upon which chapter you are in, you may love them. I know in my smaller ID that's now in Halflings, I'm not even bothering with settlement buildings. I'm simply using portal profits to upgrade the portal to 4 and then using more portal profits to get all the research done. Easy breezy lemon squeezy, and I don't have to rearrange my city except for the portal.

As for me in the spire this month, I have to admit I'm extremely tired of Watchful Winter Owl artifacts, lol. I don't need a couple dozen of those and it seems that's all I ever get. Note that I said SEEMS ... because of course that isn't true. I win diamonds, dwarven armorers, and other good stuff. But it's human nature to think that "all" you win is the thing you don't like, when if you actually wrote everything down over the course of 3 months (a good amount of time to judge properly), then you'd see you won a heck of a lot of other things, too. (And owl artifacts do give a lot of spell frags when you need them for a quest.)

Of course, the most valuable things are on the second and third levels, not the first. So if you only get to the high halls without fighting froggie, you'll be missing so much. I am glad you're reconsidering what Crackie said ... it was good advice. And I wish you the best of luck!
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
Exactly as @Darielle said. I have not purchased a single magic workshop or residence in my city and they are all magic buildings except 4 residences. Supply windfalls and coin rains can be used back to pay for future Spires. CC let’s you craft for diamonds in Mystery Object chests. Time instants, esp the 5hr ones, are free troops with a fed Brown Bear or Simia. You also need supply windfalls for an effective Brown Bear feed. The short 1 and 2hr time instants are also crucial for speeding up Pet Food and buff buildings in Magic Academy to ensure those slots stay free on a refresh cycle. For smaller cities that have wimpier barracks and don’t have very extended military building queues, they need the shorter timers for Brown Bear feeds. I have slowpoked my way through each chapter without using Portal Profits, but I am flying through Constructs now to get me a Timewarp and Simia. I have that choice because I have hundreds of Portal Profits. I don’t have a spell frag issue because I have a bunch of Moonstone sets, but spell frags are much needed for new players who are now limited to 1 Moonstone set. I obviously prefer some prizes over others, but I will take all prizes from the Spire as they are all useful :)
 

SoulsSilhouette

Buddy Fan Club member
Thats true, however, that booty is for individual benefit more than anything else. I don't win that many diamonds, but I do have more owls than I ever needed. Might actually build a second one, wish I could gift it to a newbie. I am looking at it from the point of view of what group benefits there are and in my fellowships the majority of the members think the tourney gives them more. I am Archmage but I do it by majority rules. I come here, read your responses, bring back the points for consideration, but if they still want to be tourney focused, then tourney focused we shall be. My two fellowships have a real mix of levels ... so we try to do what is best for everyone. I like the spire but I try to put the fellowship first.
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
I am looking at it from the point of view of what group benefits there are and in my fellowships the majority of the members think the tourney gives them more.
I do above average amounts of tourney. In one city, I have 800 PoP, 919 EE, and 416 MM spells. In my other city, I'm at 477 PoP, 900 EE, and 706 MM spells. So more or less, in both cities, the enchantment spells from tourney are just piling up and not really getting used. My city is built sustainably so my inventory is growing without need to sparkle, except workshops, which I sparkle every morning. Even using multiple PoP's a day, I have them in the hundreds. Therefore, tourney is mostly for KP farming, RRs, and the blueprint for me. KPs have been cheapened by rune shards. RRs take a ton of them to be able to do anything meaningful. So the biggest prize in tourney is really the blueprint.

Now let's look at Spire. Diamonds, self explanatory. CCs are good for event quests, FAs, and crafting in MAs. Supply windfalls and 5hr timers are good for Brown Bear feedings. If you're a lower chapter city, your military building queues might not be long enough to use 5hr timers so the 1&2hr timers come in handy for Brown Bear feeds. Supply windfalls and coin rains can be fed back into paying for next Spire. Shorter 1hr and 2hr timers are good for speeding through MA to clear building and relic slots to ensure they refresh at next cycle to maximize buff building and Pet Food. Portal Profits let you complete certain chapters without building settlements, which means you can use that space for something else. When talking space saving, of course we can't forget the Magic Residence and Magic Workshops, which gives you a lot of punch in population and tools per tile. Genies and Trading stations give goodies already covered. Artifacts relieves you of fear of missing out on events knowing you can get them at a later time in Spire. Even if it's an artifact for a building I already have or a building I don't want, their presence in the Spire means a second chance to craft the artifacts I do want for the events I missed, which previously was not possible. It used to be if you missed an event, you don't get that building. And if you want to craft artifacts in the MA, it's 3 blueprints or 300 diamonds per blueprint you don't have, which probably means diamonds to buy. I think the versatility of timers and diamonds make them pretty valuable prizes, but I would still pick Spire over tourney prizes even excluding diamonds from the equation. The two main things in my city helping me punch above my weight class are Fire Phoenix and Brown Bear. To (get and) make the most of those two buildings require Spire prizes.
 

BrinDarby

Well-Known Member
While a 10chest FS will consistently earn a player 1 BP/week,
a SilverSpire FS prolly earns a player 50+75+? diamonds, so
lets say 200 diamonds/week....

BPs are worth 300 diamonds, so lets call this a "wash".
Tourn and Spire have thier associated swag.... AWKP,enchantments,
relics or T.Boosters, CCs, Teleports, & bldgs , therefore ...

If I had a choice :
a 15chest FS
a GoldSpire FS
a 10chest & a SilverSpire FS

I'll take the 3rd option every single time. Its hard to value 1 over
the other, yet the combo deal , longterm, is the better choice.
Spire is more important, but not by much over tournaments.
 

SoulsSilhouette

Buddy Fan Club member
I am only in one fellowship right now that gets the 10th chest. The other fellowships I'm in are not there yet and may never be. Although I love the chests and I love when I can actually get to the top of the spire, The others in my fellowships don't get to the top of the spire on a regular basis either and since I'm that sort of middle of the road player, unlike you wonderful peeps who can battle and win ( I've tried all the advice to improve my battle skills and they are still quite shaky) I stick to what I can do and I try to NEVER expect anyone to do more than they can do. I wish that I could always kill it in the tourney and the spire and that I could kill it in the events and FA, but many times, I can't. So I will continue to wish for some recovery time in between majors, wish for some minor mini events that could improve my inventory.
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
I am only in one fellowship right now that gets the 10th chest. The other fellowships I'm in are not there yet and may never be. Although I love the chests and I love when I can actually get to the top of the spire, The others in my fellowships don't get to the top of the spire on a regular basis either and since I'm that sort of middle of the road player, unlike you wonderful peeps who can battle and win
It doesn't happen overnight :)
I started in a 5 chest FS and I did most of the heavy lifting on those 5-chests, which meant I stretched my army pretty thin. There wasn't much leadership to prioritize anything so it was obvious to me if I want more chests, I have to fight more myself. I'm mostly a browser player so I did a whole lot of manual fighting, but I've also done my share of research studying autofighting (like actually watch AI play them out). I've studied the math behind the tourney/Spire formulas that MinMax Gamer dissected too. Therefore, I understand both the battle mechanics and the math behind the scenes. I've done my homework to get better.

That said, I feel like if one "bare knuckle" it, as in fight with no Fire Phoenix or putting down any buff buildings (MMM, ELR, UUU, DAs), you'll probably hit a wall by province 10. You might win a few here and there to maybe 13, but you'll be taking such heavy losses already that I'd save my troops and cater instead, even if I can win it just to save from having to replace dead troops. Part of being able to do things well is to do it sustainably. The good news is you don't even need to do 10 provinces to put in 1600pts, a player's fair share of a blueprint. You can do the first 8 to 5 rounds. Everyone can "bare knuckle" the first 8 provinces no matter what they build because the ratio is set to be in your favor to give you a slight advantage.

@Iyapo1 is still the only one I know doing strictly catering that was pulling 8k in tourney, but she said she was starting to hit a wall in Woodelves. Everyone else switched to a mix cater/fighting strategy because of decay and juggling mana, seeds, and sentients. I don't think any of the top tourney players got there as cater only players. That screams to me the importance of Fire Phoenix and Brown Bear. Now, does everyone need one of those buildings? Probably not. However, if a player knows how to make the most of those buildings, it's such a ridiculous advantage over catering. Most of us are not "bare knuckling" it. We are using buff buildings and Fire Phoenixes to help us fight. It's going to be really hard (but not impossible) to "bare knuckle" multiple wave encounters in the Spire. You're better off catering than trying to "bare knuckle" the upper parts of the Spire. Hence, I strongly believe philosophically that helping everyone in your FS get those buildings is what's going to make your FS stronger overall. As AM, I'd rather give them that opportunity to be able to acquire/evolve them, and leave it up to players whether they actually take advantage of it. In the end though, even if you're not fighting 50 provinces or whatever, the math says if you kill the bad guys faster, the more troops you save in the long run by not taking more retaliatory rounds and therefore, not having to replace dead troops for next week. It's a big part of troop recovery strategy too.
 

iamthouth

Well-Known Member
Agree with @crackie that Spire (gold) is most important. I changed fellowships recently to a gold one, which I needed to do to earn more diamonds for expansions. Last few weeks I've been keeping track of what I spend to get a fourth round in spire versus what I win:
DateDiamondsUsedWonDiff
11/06/20221278
18/06/20221548325595+270
25/06/20221703425580+155
02/07/20221946336579+243
 

spambrando

Member
Funny how the current quest for tonight is one where there's no spire and no tourney to get those 8 encounters, other than either witing around or opening yet ANOTHER province, where it shows that I'm already way over how many SHOULD be open by now. Not a very good sychronization of quests vs other tasks.
 

Flashfyre

Well-Known Member
@spambrando One could also argue that, knowing the times that Tourney and Spire begin and end, it is not a very good synchronization of working the questline vs other tasks.
I check the questline every day or so to see what "surprises" are coming up...like "collect CCs" or "collect Spell Frags" when I know the Spire will end before I reach those quests IF I continue to complete them at the pace I have been. Sometimes it's better to let an easy quest lie fallow for a day in order to ensure that you won't get stuck with a harder one that can't be completed right away.
There is plenty of time in the event to spread your quest completions out over, if you aren't rushing through them in the first week to complete the event ASAP.
 
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