Fair Trades?

[Moho]

I remember when I started playing the game I was preoccupied with the idea of "fair trades." "Fair" things seem to appeal to me in general, but the theoretical notion of justice often changes dramatically when it's applied to specific circumstances.

I only posted trades regularly until I reached chapter 3. Soon afterwards I became a scavenger, that is check my Trader every time I log in and accept the trades I like. I often facilitate trades between my neighbors too, or between my fellowship members and my neighbors. And I don't care what trades they are. It does annoy me when I see a neighbor constantly posting a certain type of trade, but like some of my comrades said, I get used to it and it turns out that many time it is a temporary situation (even if it may last quite long). I cater the Tournament (because it's fast - like auto-fighting the Spire) and I need goods all the time. I have all the goods I need.

 

[MichaelMichael]

It's pretty simple math, and there's nothing elitist about advising people not to waste effort. You get far more per investment for your boosted goods, so even if you offer 200 boosted for 100 unboosted, it is a better deal than producing unboosted goods. if you can't get people in your FS to take your trades for 2:1 and pass them on in their own area, then your FS is awful.

I think you are missing my point. I was talking about balancing the choice of members within a fellowship to balance production capabilities. So the fellowship produces roughly the same of each good so they do not have to trade outside the fellowship much. It is an ideal which is not possible. I make absolutely no attempt towards that “goal” as it is just a means to descriminate against those, like me, that was born with poor boosts.

Balance is not possible for all fellowships. The balance of goods is not balanced. There are more survivors with planks and fewer with steel as a boosted good. Much of this disparity disappears in the standard goods market because of the wholesaler. “Balanced within a fellowship for boosts goods” is not available to all fellowships. It is a mathematical impossibility.

Btw, all production is only boosted goods. Everyone, outside of newbies, only produces according to their boosts. That expedient is not in dispute.

Finally, my fellowship trades internally at 1:1 and 8:1. We do no calculations of relative value at all. We also trade externally at1:1 and use the wholesaler to balance needed goods. If 1:2 works for you, all power to you. Our scheme results in zero good shortages ever. All trades except by the two or three highest chapter players close immediately. This leaves only 1:1 large trades that are slowly filled in the open market. Large trades are filled with wholesaler production which is more easily balanced - everyone has two non-boosted good instead of the one boosted choice.

 

[defiantoneks]

if you can't get people in your FS to take your trades for 2:1 and pass them on in their own area, then your FS is awful.

i think if you consistently expect your FS members to get hosed on internal trades, they're probably going to leave.
We only post lopsided trades (ie, not 1:1) when it's been discussed and agreed to in open chat or pm. usually this is a newer player needing to establish their city, or someone in need of goods for negotiating or a research requirement. the point of a FS, in my opinion, is to make sure you're treated equally and not subject to the horrific trades outside. if you're always asking for bad trades inside, that's a moral and morale disadvantage to your FS.

 

[Zoof]

i think if you consistently expect your FS members to get hosed on internal trades, they're probably going to leave.
We only post lopsided trades (ie, not 1:1) when it's been discussed and agreed to in open chat or pm. usually this is a newer player needing to establish their city, or someone in need of goods for negotiating or a research requirement. the point of a FS, in my opinion, is to make sure you're treated equally and not subject to the horrific trades outside. if you're always asking for bad trades inside, that's a moral and morale disadvantage to your FS.

I believe @Ashrem was talking about posting down a 3-star trade at that ratio, not asking for a 0-star. Any FS that wouldn't take a trade that, assuming all goods acquisitions are roughly even across the board, is in my opinion, cracked. Get out and find another fellowship who wouldn't mind taking that sort of profit. Even better if they (the theoretical new FS you're heading off to) try to insist on talking you down to a 1:1

 

[Ashrem]

i think if you consistently expect your FS members to get hosed on internal trades, they're probably going to leave.
We only post lopsided trades (ie, not 1:1) when it's been discussed and agreed to in open chat or pm. usually this is a newer player needing to establish their city, or someone in need of goods for negotiating or a research requirement. the point of a FS, in my opinion, is to make sure you're treated equally and not subject to the horrific trades outside. if you're always asking for bad trades inside, that's a moral and morale disadvantage to your FS.

2:1 is an incredibly good three star trade and no one is getting hosed.

 

[Ashrem]

I think you are missing my point.

I did cross your points in my head when rebutting the "elitist" comment, my apologies.

Balanced production is a goal, an ideal. No group ever has balanced production because everyone moves at a different rate It's not elitist to suggest that people work towards an ideal. Anyone can do that. Operating a group which is seriously unbalanced can beunhealthy for the group's economics unless the members actively seek external trades to address the imbalance. If other factors are more important to you, that's your choice and your group can function fine, it just takes a little more effort on everyone's part. My group is unbalanced to the tune ofa bout 175k/ day in each tier, but most of us have large enough trading areas that it is fairly trivial to correct. Smaller groups have to work much harder to maintain balance, especially if more than one or two are in bad areas of the map. Those inconveniently located cities will feel hard done by unless the group actively assists them.

 

[Darielle]

I know this subject has been talked to death, but yesterday in the trader I literally could not find a trade that was not a cross-trade. And it's virtually always someone with t3s wanting t2s or t1s. It gets really tiresome. I wouldn't mind newbies posting crosstrades because they don't produce t3s, but all these big players and that's all they make is kind of sickening. Go to their cities; they don't even have t1 factories. They just expect everyone to take their t3s and save them the space.

I've done cross tiers and I'm not ashamed to say it, but they are ALWAYS a very decent, not a skimpy three star. And more often than not, I'm trading up, not down. I just get sick of having to go through page after page after page after page after page after page ...
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[Astram]

Just when I thought this version of thread would end.

 

[muffy.]

 

[Yogi Dave]

Just when I thought this version of thread would end.

LOL This is a never-ending conversation which reminds me of the Bottomless Pit. There are a few variations on the theme, but I can pretty much look at the name of the poster and know the direction of their argument.

 

[Ashrem]

Just when I thought this version of thread would end.

No one Expects the Cross Tier Trading thread. Among our weapons are fear, surprise, and a fanatical devotion to our preferred position.
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Nih!

 

[muffy.]

LOL This is a never-ending conversation which reminds me of the Bottomless Pit. There are a few variations on the theme, but I can pretty much look at the name of the poster and know the direction of their argument.

I was all for doin something to the pit so I put out a wildcard proposal for it …it got argued and bitched upon with no resolution or other ideas suggested.
I like solutions to issues and problems … and I like them to be reasonable and cost worthy. So you are more than welcome to pick up where it was left …. I’ll jump on the bandwagon if it’s reasonable and cost worthy

 

[Myne]

Here we go again.....

 

[muffy.]

@Myne …. CATCH … **tosses popcorn **

 

[Myne]

This thread should be renamed LAZARUS...because it keeps resurrecting

 

[Myne]

@Myne …. CATCH … **tosses popcorn **

*fends off popcorn with garbage can lid* no thanks I just ate and had oreos for dessert.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I said it once before somewhere in this thread and I will say it again, but the choice of the word "fair" to describe this was not a good one, is loaded with landmines, and will never have a resolution.

 

[muffy.]

No … you are saying it again because you love a good argument… actually it doesn’t even have to be good

 

[Myne]

It's not about a word choice. Never has been. Even a toddler has an intrinsic sense of fairness, and they don't even know the word.

 

[Astram]

OK, we are done here.