Fed up with Orc requirement in Negotaions

[DeletedUser1987]

Well, I made an account to say that we on the US server are constantly given the impression that our opinions only matter if they're posted on the beta server. So simply saying "stop posting opinions from teh US server to the beta server" doesn't really fix the issue of US server players feeling like they have no choice but to do that just to have their opinions acknowledged.

 

[DeletedUser2396]

I am sorry. I have failed you all.

To la' Bobbykitty - i went to that link and read thur several pages of it - it is long reading but to make it short they would not listen even if i registered over there which i feel since i play on this server this is where i will comment and vent my feelings - seems like a lost cause but you gave a Valiant effort for those of us who have had the rug yanked from under our feet and I for ONE would just like to say you have failed no one - Thank You for being You la' - i commented above that i might quit - i will play on just starting Dwarfs allready at the 12th Ring i had made it that far with negotiations - it has allready become a roadblock for progress for me as today i had no encounters that i could do on my World Map as i had cleared them all so had to wait for the scout to complete it's 1 day an 4 hours to get 8 more encounters that are in 10th ring which can still be negotiated as this was basically my choice of play style - this choice is no longer available to me in 11th/12th ring - i did manage to fight my way thur part of the 11th ring and pay diamonds to get thur it to gain a new neighbor (costly for me) a non-diamond player would simply just quit playing i fear - i also have paid my way thur 6 encounters in the 12th ring and still have 2 more to buy to get to another neighbor that plays daily again a non-diamond player wouldn't make it thur and i doubt i will be buying my way thur anymore now - i think i shall just have to wait on the scout and scout out all the Rings that i might have missed in the 10th Ring - once i complete all of them the game will be over for me - As Designed: by the Devs

SK

>Edit: The only ONE's who have failed is the Developers la' as more of the people like me who helped support the game with Diamond purchases stop buying Diamonds and quit the game to go on to other games - yes Sinking Ship indeed -(

 

[DeletedUser51]

In fact, they are saying that I am not even allowed to tell them anything any of you say

@Bobbykitty , let me try to explain a bit better since you know I'm also a Beta moderator.

The Beta server is its own separate entity where changes to the game are tested and feedback is collected (and most changes are made) BEFORE it is released on live. Anyone here who would like to can certainly join the Beta server to help test and let that server know what they think, but once it is live, it is live. Reposting from one server to the other is not the same thing.

The live servers, all 21 of them, submit feedback on things AFTER they have been released.

Beta does not submit feedback on what the live servers think and the live servers do not submit feedback on anything in Beta testing.

 

[DeletedUser1987]

So then why, after months of people leaving because of the new orc requirement, has the new orc requirement not been changed at all? Feedback was asked specifically on the beta forum related to the orc requirement. We were never specifically asked for feedback here, until Bobbykitty copied the beta request for feedback here. Since a moderator asked for feedback there, but it took a player copying a moderator's request here.... it really does nothing to make players' input here feel wanted. Especially since it seems like the devs don't care about player feedback. Looking at the 1.14 release notes, I don't see anything addressing anything that players here seem to care about.

Either the devs don't care, or our input isn't forwarded to them. And it's really, really hard to understand why devs who will be out a job if their game doesn't succeed are ignoring our input. Hopefully this observation will be forwarded to the devs, because it's equally hard to understand why forum moderators who are in charge of forwarding feedback don't forward feedback. So of the two equally unlikely scenarios, it seems the devs ignoring player feedback and trying to sabotage themselves out of a job is the more likely one. I'm really curious where the devs think they will be when all the players who would pay them money are gone and telling their friends to stay away, or staying purely out of spite to encourage any and all new players to flee the sinking ship. Because that's a situation I can see happening if the next few guest races are as horribly ignorant of player feedback as the orcs have been.

 

[DeletedUser51]

The development team is very aware what players think about the Orcs and when they become required, especially by established players who are more affected by them. There may or may not be adjustments to this in the future, we simply do not know.

Feedback does not always equal change when its something the development team will be building on with future new releases to the game.

 

[DeletedUser43]

@Bobbykitty , let me try to explain a bit better since you know I'm also a Beta moderator.

I didn't know this.

But, as has been mentioned above, the only person who said they would change this if negotiations stopped was Goryn and he is on the beta forum. It is hard as heck to know what is supposed to be what and where. Indeed, if you call beta a beta forum, you get yelled at and told that it isn't beta any more. They even changed the numbering of the release notes. Anyone can play anywhere, so why is there this huge "difference" between forums? Players are players. Many of the bugs come over to the live game, so the US server feels very much like beta. The game keeps getting "rebalanced" on the live servers too. The whole game is beta. There is no finished product.



(Frankly, I think it is ridiculous to have a separate forum called "beta" any more (even though it isn't called beta).
In fact, as more and more people leave beta, and it doesn't get advertised, they have fewer and fewer new players and players of all different levels. It seems worse and worse to test things on beta because that is a self selected group of avid gamers. If something works on beta, it might not work live at all. You won't have many 60 somethings playing beta and giving feedback on how parts of the game are working. Meanwhile, here, you could call our fellowship AARP. Listening to avid players won't tell you if the average player here can understand how something works and yet, nothing changes once it come here, it gets all its tweaks on beta. Inno tweaks the game for one set of customers and then delivers it to another.

You release things there, get very few complaints and then it gets released live and players quit left and right. I am thinking of the treasure chest and number of provinces requirement that was released a long time ago. All of us on beta were way past that so it hardly affected us. Then of course there is the orc requirement. It hardly affects them.

I can tell you right now, I am worried how the new fighting mode gets implemented. You have a lot of fighters there and people there can understand a lot of things that will only confuse players here more. Yet, they only get feedback from people who fully understand all this stuff. They won't hear feedback that a normal player would give you. Then they might release it live and people will quit fighting all together as they are completely baffled.)

If Inno wants feedback on the game, then they need to listen to the live players. We need devs who come by and respond. We need things tweaked in response to great ideas. If we are never heard, then why bother speaking? The way they set up the forums with a separate password means that most players never say a word here. Nothing any of us have ever said here has changed the game in any way. We speak to the wall.

I'm so frustrated with it all. I love Elvenar and I want it to succeed. It needs customers to do that. I often feel it is only us customers that care if Inno has customers!



The bottom line on the orc requirement is that it hits players a lot earlier than they intended and players are walking out the door because it hits them stupid early. You simply can't have a requirement that takes so long to begin to solve or you will lose customers forever because of it.

 

[DeletedUser2522]

PS i tried to signup to beta forum to refute your bs whining there, bobby. apparently i would have to join the beta game first. no thank you. two worlds is plenty for me.

This comment is RUDE! Nevarth, you're so full of yourself that it's nauseating. How can you tell everyone what they should be doing?
You didn't even play the game, no strategy involved, you simply bought your way through and brag about it.
It's like buying your college term paper on the internet and then bragging about your grade.
I don't get it.

 

[DeletedUser51]

I'm so frustrated with it all

We know many players are frustrated by Orcs and I know that you, like many of the other players here, want what they believe is best for the game. Changes to the game which come after something is already one way are never easy. This is true for the implementation of Orcs and other things as well (the MA, research tree adjustments, etc.)

What we do need, and prefer, is constructive feedback. 'This way would make more sense', 'This is why an alternative option would be better', 'This is how it is affecting my game'.

The developers are much more receptive to this type of feedback from any server, but again, feedback does not always mean a change can or will be made.

 

[DeletedUser3610]

What we do need, and prefer, is constructive feedback. 'This way would make more sense', 'This is why an alternative option would be better', 'This is how it is affecting my game'.

I've seen plenty of this kind of feedback here, especially the last type, and still no reaction from the devs. So it seems that giving any kind of feedback is completely futile.*shrug*

 

[DeletedUser2396]

There is not much point to Feedback when the Back never comes here and Responds in the discourse - whom of us here have ever heard a Dev respond to anything said in this forum by any of us?

 

[DeletedUser1987]

Well, they did increase the population of lvl 21 buildings by 50. Which does nothing to fix the population drop of the lvl 20 buildings, but meh, if you just upgrade to 20 then immediately to 21 it's a benefit. So they did listen to players... some. And then, since they intentionally made it so that people were unsatisfied, they added paid buildings that you can spend a large fortune on if you want to actually fix your city.

I've seen so much constructive feedback about the Magic Academy, and all of it has been ignored. I've seen so much constructive feedback about orcs, and most of it has been ignored. What's the point of giving constructive feedback if the devs never pay attention to it, and in fact make releases that sound like they're trying to use the fact that players want change to grab money?

 

[WolfSinger]

Several good alternatives to the Orc requirement HAVE been posted and never mentioned again by the mods or the devs. I visit the Beta forum to see whats coming up - even if I can't comment there.

There are two ways to BALANCE the Orc negotiation requirement - it activates either when the player opens the chapter or when they research the appropriate tech.

Yes, having it activate when the chapter is opened might mean several days being unable to negotiate a province until you can research and start building Orcs - that's minor compared to being forced to stopped negotiating in the Dwarven Chapter. I don't fight in the provinces - period. Can't ever seem to figure it out and lose about 90% of my battles - I'm in ring 12 at this point. Plus, I started this game - because I wanted something WITHOUT fighting. I like a calm relaxing building game. However, because Inno wants players to 'enjoy' all aspects of the game - not just the ones the player themselves actually do enjoy - they are forcing people to learn the fighting system - whether they Choose to or not - Guess the bit about being about to choose your path needs to be removed from the game description. Of course all this attention on the fighting system now has me concerned that somewhere in the back of the devs mind is the possibility of PvP fighting coming in the future. I

Fortunately, I am in the Orc chapter so the requirement has slowed me only a little on my negotiations. But, hey - that's reasonable in my opinion.

 

[DeletedUser3312]

Anyone here who would like to can certainly join the Beta server to help test and let that server know what they think,

I was a member of the Beta forum and now I am not. I play on Beta and tried to rejoin but was told they are not accepting members at this time. Can you help with this?

 

[DeletedUser43]

Nevermind signing up for beta so you can say something there. All our feedback from last night was deleted. I am so so sorry Caanna. Does anyone know what forum warning points are and how many you can get?

I don't think I will have the ability to fight for player's over in beta any more. In fact, I may not be able to say anything over there. I tried and tried and tried to help everyone here and this time I really have failed completely. I get a lot of messages from people telling me that I speak for them. Sadly, that voice now has laryngitis.

I am sorry everyone. I really am. Nothing will be done about the orc requirement.

 

[DeletedUser1987]

It's not your fault. I don't understand how anyone could reasonably expect the devs to be so stubborn. You would think that they would have been fired by now, so many people have quit.

 

[DeletedUser43]

When asked on beta what warning points and how many you can get the response was "when you collect too many warning points and reach a certain threshold, you will find that your forum account will be banned. The points normally expire again after a set time, and those expired points will not count towards the total anymore." So obviously, there is an arbitrary number that they use to get rid of anyone at any time.

fyi being "off topic" is also an infraction that gets you more points.

And it might even be an infraction to mention to mention forum rules. Who knows?

Standing up for people I think will get me banned. I can't say anything else.

At least the forum moderators here are a 1000% better.

 

[DeletedUser2396]

From that i can only make the assumption that in Beta if the Status Quo don't agree to your argument and you don't come around to their viewpoint you accumulate those warning points very rapidly and PoW you become MIA.
Why bother to go to that Forum leave the Buggers to themselves they are out of touch with the rest of us.

 

[DeletedUser2959]

I am not at all fed up with Orcs. When the time comes to turn my city into a poop and mushroom factory I will quit.

 

[DeletedUser61]

You guys are sort of missing the fundamental challenge in a City Builder.

The "opponents" in a city builder is not other players, but rather the opponent is the game model itself.

The developers have a certain envelope in mind for game balance, and I for one take great joy is distorting that envelope beyond all recognition.

I'm not interested in steamrolling the game with "too many" expansions and "too many" manufacturing buildings, rather I prefer to play the game near the middle of the perceived game balance envelope, and demonstrate that it's possible to beat the system WITHOUT overwhelming it.

It's NORMAL, in a city builder, for the Players to come up with creative weirdness that the developers then have to cap, somehow, so that the various challenges and puzzles are not trivialized.

 

[DeletedUser61]

Either the devs don't care, or our input isn't forwarded to them.

There's a third possibility. Perhaps the Developers have a better feel for the game dynamics than you do, and perhaps they feel that following your "advice" would weaken the game.