Iyapo1
Well-Known Member
You're also overlooking competitive FSs. The average effort of a players in a FA competitive FS is fairly extreme. They all throw down, every single member...or they get booted.
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Your Elvenar Team
Forum Fellowship Adventures
- Thread starter Jarsali
- Start date
AtaguS
Well-Known Member
Time per quest/badge is only one currency.
For an FA I am generally burning teleport spells more than in an event,
swapping out manufactories (thus losing production on other goods),
setting aside more empty space or delaying the start of a new chapter - so, stalling my progress in the game.
I'm also responding to and writing more messages,
logging in more often to communicate and coordinate with fellows,
burning more CCs, MMs and what-ever-the-purple-spells-are-called.
I'm using more time instants.
This says little for the handful of players who are helping to facilitate the FAs. The time spent planning, spreadsheeting, responding to questions from fellows, re-organizing as things go awry, etc, far exceeds looking at a quest list and timing my quests to complete themselves.
Sprite1313
Well-Known Member
An FA takes place over a 5-7 day period; the individual adventures last for three weeks. That is three weeks, with three spires and three tournaments to complete the 98 encounters (plus five optional, that could be skipped by doing something else) and gain 148 relics (plus 20 optional, that can be skipped by doing something else). You can easily gain that many relics just by completing those two normal events.
The FA also requires completing encounters (3 encounters for every badge you want to earn), gaining relics (8 for each badge). Let's look at the relics. Over a 22 day event you had to collect 148 relics. That is about 6 relics per day. Over the course of an FA, every member of the fellowship has to gain about 6 relics per day to complete just the orange path, for example. And I agree you aren't going to work up a sweat collecting blacksmith badges, but how much time do you have to spend to get dwarven brewery badges?
Let's stick with that orange path and look at the encounters we have to fight. To get the required ghost badges, each member of the FS has to complete 12-15 encounters (it's 12.36, but that doesn't divide evenly by 3, lol). So, over the course of the FA each member is fighting 2.5 encounters per day. In the solo adventure, you have to fight about 4.5 encounters per day. However, you have (as I mentioned before) three tourneys and three spires in which to do it. For the FA, I might have to open new provinces because the spire/tourney timing didn't work for me in that short window.
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SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
Do the math.
Add up all of the badge requirements for clearing all spots on all 3 stages of the FA
Divide them by 25 for individual efforts.
Then compare that task list with the entire Event
Finally, compare all of the prizes won in the Event vs FA
We've done these calculations before, and the FA just doesn't match up.
On top of everything else, if you get 9 artifacts from the event then the 2 from the follow-up FA are nearly worthless reducing the FA prizes to just a handful of KP, 1h of timers, and a carting library.
It also doesn't take into account how the event's tasks being spread over a month drastically reduces the effort required.
108 fights?! OMG so many! But wait.. that's 3 per day.
And what about the awful FA interface?
I normally auto-fight provinces 1-20 and it takes a few minutes.
During the FA it takes at least twice as long because every fight I have to stop, open the badge interface, and collect either a relic, spell, or fight badge.
A 100% increase in time required for the tournament due to badge collecting is significant.
Darielle
Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
If that is true (and I have no reason to doubt it), then you obviously didn't work like most of the people in my fellowship worked last time in the FA. We achieved 2nd place, and most of us basically lived on Elvenar during those 7 days, particularly during the pit round, when everything changes every few minutes and you have to be there to add your badges at precisely the right moment. I spent far, far more actual hours planning, coordinating, and doing the FA last time than I did during the entire Carnival event. And besides, being on Elvenar for 8-10-12 or more hours a day for a week straight is far, far harder than being on Elvenar for an hour or two a day for 30 days straight. It is a grueling affair, and I believe the rewards in no way compensate for that. Now, if you want to talk about the rewards for doing one path and forgetting the pit, fine ... they're okay for that. But anyone who makes it into the top 5, or even simply completes all points on all three maps, should get far, far more rewards than they do. It takes a hell of a lot more effort than the Carnival Event did, believe me.
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
That's what I'm saying. The FA and Event both require mostly the same tasks.
The different ones are
FA: 24 & 48h productions (yuck)
Event: "post a trade", "spend KP" (uh ok... click click done)
Then the FA gives you 2 artifacts that many players have zero use for plus a little KP
vs
The event gives you 12-20 daily prizes, dozens of instants, the grand prize, a little goddess building and it does it all over a nice leisurely month+ so that tasks basically complete themselves through normal play.
And if you want to be competitive in the FA? Holy crap
Sprite1313
Well-Known Member
Yup; two days on the paths and 3-5 in the pit is exhausting. To say nothing of how much time it takes if you happen to be the one coordinating your FS's participation; or you just happen to be somebody who really wants to see the FS do well and stay engaged during the whole event so you know which badges to make when.
samidodamage
Buddy Fan Club member
I can preset event quests, complete the sequential quest line and arrive at the one/day quests in 24hrs if I'm focused; 3 days with just some prep if I don't feel like devoting the space to it. Then, one quest/day for 3 weeks complete just by the normal stuff I do in my city (maybe I need to wait for the next tourney round, but by looking ahead, it's neither difficult nor time consuming to do). FA's are concentrated into less than 1 week!
FS does all three paths, all three stages and then tries to remain competitive in the pits (competitive defined as finishing in top 20, shooting for top 10 and pretending top 5 don't exist since there are no prizes worth spending diamonds on, lol!). We are not talking about FS that requires participation here, so there are always less than a full FS doing it. The points received from doing all the points on all the paths is ~25K. Many times it is more strategic to skip some points that give less points than the badges would get from the pit windows, but someone has to put in the time/effort to figure out those anomalies. There are players who are not in a position in their city (lack of room, low on teleports, etc) to do as much at times. For whatever reason, other players have to make up the difference.
Like yourself, @CrusaderMichael, there are always some members who don't care for the FA and only do the minimum for getting the stage prizes; some FS's are made up of players who agree and only do one path/stage and stop. There are also players who do a minimum in or ignore events. While those are perfectly legitimate playstyles, I don't think game features should be designed around them.
Assuming 25K points from paths, it will take an extra 5-10K points from the pits at 50 points/window to finish in 10th-20th place. That's 100-200 windows that need to be completed with 5 badges of each type required (3 types required for 4 windows, 2 types required for the other 2 windows) to complete a window. It's a week of very concentrated play requiring a great deal of time in-game to make and insert all the badges needed for that. Those who coordinate the effort and keep track of everything so no one is left out, spend even more time on the game that week.
I really liked the idea of Artifact Fragments (it would take 100 to make one artifact; max available in each FA ~200 fragments) that someone brought up in these forums. The idea was add fragments (weighted to the points provided by the waypoint) to each waypoint on each path, providing incentive to do more than one path each stage as well as access to individually desired artifacts.
FS does all three paths, all three stages and then tries to remain competitive in the pits (competitive defined as finishing in top 20, shooting for top 10 and pretending top 5 don't exist since there are no prizes worth spending diamonds on, lol!). We are not talking about FS that requires participation here, so there are always less than a full FS doing it. The points received from doing all the points on all the paths is ~25K. Many times it is more strategic to skip some points that give less points than the badges would get from the pit windows, but someone has to put in the time/effort to figure out those anomalies. There are players who are not in a position in their city (lack of room, low on teleports, etc) to do as much at times. For whatever reason, other players have to make up the difference.
Like yourself, @CrusaderMichael, there are always some members who don't care for the FA and only do the minimum for getting the stage prizes; some FS's are made up of players who agree and only do one path/stage and stop. There are also players who do a minimum in or ignore events. While those are perfectly legitimate playstyles, I don't think game features should be designed around them.
Assuming 25K points from paths, it will take an extra 5-10K points from the pits at 50 points/window to finish in 10th-20th place. That's 100-200 windows that need to be completed with 5 badges of each type required (3 types required for 4 windows, 2 types required for the other 2 windows) to complete a window. It's a week of very concentrated play requiring a great deal of time in-game to make and insert all the badges needed for that. Those who coordinate the effort and keep track of everything so no one is left out, spend even more time on the game that week.
I really liked the idea of Artifact Fragments (it would take 100 to make one artifact; max available in each FA ~200 fragments) that someone brought up in these forums. The idea was add fragments (weighted to the points provided by the waypoint) to each waypoint on each path, providing incentive to do more than one path each stage as well as access to individually desired artifacts.
AtaguS
Well-Known Member
Let's put it this way, I've never set my alarm and woken up at 3am for an event quest the way I have to collect 30+ Carpenter badges when going for #1
Enevhar Aldarion
Oh Wise One
And this is one of the reasons why, in the first few years, this game seemed to be marketed toward older, retired people, especially women. People without a job to worry about and with an empty nest at home, so no family to take up their time. People with not much else to spend their disposable income on. Etc. I don't know what the demographics are these days, but when I started playing, this was very true.
Sprite1313
Well-Known Member
This is such a good idea; better than trying to win artifacts in the Spire - you could earn them, instead of hoping you have good luck (which I did not, lol).
bucketofsquid
New Member
All Y'All are putting way too much thought into this.
Deleted User - 849192770
Guest
yes i love this idea i think it was @SoggyShorts who said it that at least were i heard it first. i would love to see a poll on this
Aritra
Well-Known Member
Problem?
CrusaderMichael
Active Member
I actually liked reading all these comments... though it's maybe slightly off topic talking about going all out in an FA and getting every node and in to the pit for days... it's still interesting reading about the competitive side to such an otherwise "easy to get rewards" event.
So yes, if you go all out, FA becomes closer to what you put in to an event like everblossom.
Until this forum topic i didn't even imagine people swapping out buildings etc for an FA... but when you're going for place instead of just rewards, it's a whole different ball game i guess.
So yes, if you go all out, FA becomes closer to what you put in to an event like everblossom.
Until this forum topic i didn't even imagine people swapping out buildings etc for an FA... but when you're going for place instead of just rewards, it's a whole different ball game i guess.
Iyapo1
Well-Known Member
It is not off topic at all. Inno created the FA, loaded it with prizes commiserate with the "average participation required to complete". As lame as the prizes are....I dont think they expected the bloodbath than insued. The playerbase set the effort required to compete.
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
Aha, see that's where most of the disconnect comes from and it makes sense that you've only done one FA so far.
Basically what the FA could be is so much more than what it is.
Yes, you can just do the bare minimum to get the rewards, but that's the problem:
Doing more should yield better results.
The rewards for doing every single spot should not be the exact same for just doing one path per stage... that's just silly.
CrusaderMichael
Active Member
1) Iyapo1 Only off topic slightly in that the OP said " It's a huge time involvement for very little reward. "... it obviously doesn't take much effort to pull 3 flags... but takes a ton more effort to get all nodes and run a pit for days (which apparently is what many of you are talking about). I wasn't complaining about it being slightly off topic. Just that OP didn't mention that marathon version of FA.
2) Yes Soggy. I did math and for Everblossom it was 6.25 tasks per day (about). Running FA going for place, organizing a FS for it, etc, and having to wake up at 3 am to set yer stuff, could put an FA up there in terms of time (or in that case, at least make it more annoying haha. Aint gonna set my alarm clock to create in game bread, for any game haha).
2) Yes Soggy. I did math and for Everblossom it was 6.25 tasks per day (about). Running FA going for place, organizing a FS for it, etc, and having to wake up at 3 am to set yer stuff, could put an FA up there in terms of time (or in that case, at least make it more annoying haha. Aint gonna set my alarm clock to create in game bread, for any game haha).
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
I hate to sound like a 5th grade teacher, but could you please show your work?
There were 144 total tasks, if it was 6.25 tasks per day that would mean the event was 23 days long. It wasn't.
Also comparing straight tasks per day is as if all tasks are created equal is a little ... disingenuous.
I mean are we really going to count "place a trade" as anything other than a total freebie?