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    Your Elvenar Team

Fellowship recommendation mechanism is horrible

Ihrlaen

Well-Known Member
Curious. Does anyone use the fellowship recruiting built into the forums? How well does that work?

Perhaps a button on the recommendation windows taking the player directly to the "fellowship seeking members" forum for their server.
In direct reply @SecondBestPolicy , it is mediocre but at least part of that is traffic which your idea at least partially corrects.

With no hint of sarcasm, I can honestly say that is one of the best and most elegant do-nothing solutions I have ever seen and if INNO is not going to "fix" the recommendations, this is a hell of an option.

@-Solaris-, @Astram, I truly think this idea is one take note of for the decision-makers.
 

Myne

Oh Wise One
I get that and understand, but what I am asking is HOW Elvenstats Tells you that an FS is Dead. I just pulled up that listing and found 2 in the first 25 meet the definition of Dead FS. Mind you, I think ElvenStats is a great tool, but it does not "Tell" you the FS is dead.
They don't give you a notice as such. You have to scroll down the list of players and take note of the number of black triangles which indicate players that are not active. Also if you look at their curve chart and tournament play you can really tell if they are snoozing.
 

Myne

Oh Wise One
Throwing in my 2 cents:
The recommended players are invariably inactive players.
I have to do this to find players.
I open up the ranking list within the game for fellowships.
Then I go about 50 or so pages down and open up elvenstats and start plugging in names of the fellowships. I scan the player lists keeping in mind what type of boosts etc I need and if they play tourney.
Then I use the ranking list again to message anyone I wish to open a dialog with.
LABOR INTENSIVE to say the least, but it's been the most successful of all the ways I have tried.
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
Curious. Does anyone use the fellowship recruiting built into the forums? How well does that work?

Perhaps a button on the recommendation windows taking the player directly to the "fellowship seeking members" forum for their server.
It’s not the greatest because I think most forum users that see it are already in fellowships. The Game World section would work better if they direct more eyeballs to it, whether on their social media channels or in-game so more people would know it exists that aren’t the regulars. Your idea of linking players here from suggestions tab is actually a wonderful idea! They did make an in-game bugle announcement about it once and it got really hopping for a hot second, but then forgotten about again as time lapses. Maybe if they bugle it every few months, then it will be more in the front of people’s awareness that it exists.

I know I say that with the greatest of ironies as one of my fellowships has one of the highest concentration of forum members. However, that happened from regular pavement pounding and messaging them directly after cultivating friendly relationships. They didn’t join because I posted an ad. I talk to a lot of fellow AMs from the forum and we do network and place players into each other’s fellowships. If you use the forum that way, then yes, it can be effective. However, that is a more proactive approach and more work than just posting an ad as it takes time to make contacts. On EN where everything is far less active, including my own participation, I have only gotten two players in 3yrs from the forum. I would say it’s prob about 4 players in 4yrs on the US from ads.
 

Yavimaya

Scroll-Keeper
Or we players could fix the problem by centralizing recruitment on an off site web page. Each server would have a place where you put in what you are looking for and it searches to find active players for you. If elvenstats is able to get that data, and the site used the same definition of "active", then it would be child's play for a search for active players meeting your criteria. And it would, no doubt, drive a LOT of traffic to the site. The most logical place would be elvenstats but I'm not sure if the person running that wants' to take on the job.

Barring that, you can also, if you are on Khelonaar, join The Consortium, a group of 9 fellowships all recruiting together. So far we've place, in the last month, about 40 or so players in active and vibrant fellowships in the The Consortium. To be honest, the hardest part is placing players in the top tier (40 or less) as those fellowships tend to be very aggressive and often "invite" players already in fellowships. Anyone in the 40-60 level range has probably experienced this. I know I have. But, on the other hand, the TC is there and working well enough. You could join us if you are on Khelonaar. Or start your own TC if you aren't?

AJ
If that happened we would need a website somewhere in the actual game for players to click on and get there. Kind of like the forum you can get to straight from in game. Otherwise, new players still would not know unless they google everything on game like us hardcore ones do.
 

Yavimaya

Scroll-Keeper
I assume that this is on the app because browser version just lists all fellowships in ranking order and this seem to work well enough. There is even an option to only see "Application only" or "Join directly" fellowships. Maybe they should do the same for the app version rather than do recommendations?
Agreed!
 

ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious Old Dog
Curious. Does anyone use the fellowship recruiting built into the forums? How well does that work?

Perhaps a button on the recommendation windows taking the player directly to the "fellowship seeking members" forum for their server.
I've used the forum recruitment device and, in about five years, I've picked up 1 player. If you look, the number of "fellowship wanting members" threads is probably about ten times that of the "players wanting fellowship" threads. In other words, it doesn't work very well because so many of the players never come to the forum.

AJ
 

Katwick

Cartographer
I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned what I've found to be the most effective approach for finding a better Fellowship for yourself, or for recruiting new members. ..... :stick_out_tongue_elf:
  • Click on the nearby cities on your World Map, especially the neighbors who've been visiting you, and check out their Fellowships. Folks will argue that you're losing ONE potential trading partner because someone would be BOTH on your map AND in your Fellowship, but you'll GAIN 24 trading partners.
  • Conversely, visiting your neighbors, and noting when they ARE NOT in a (decent) Fellowship, is very fertile ground for recruiting.
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
For the record, *I* don’t have a problem getting into a FS of my choice. My 3rd city got in the #2 FS as a chapter 1 runt (and the fact they stayed at #2 while essentially adding 0pts from me shows how big everyone else is). A veteran FS knows to look me up on Elvenstats to see I have a big city elsewhere and know what I am doing, even if I show up in their world fresh from the perinatal ward. To clarify, this thread isn’t me asking help to place my newbie city. I have a less active incognito newbie account so they can’t do that. I want them to think I am a newbie like everyone else. It’s to research what’s going on in newbie world. What are newbie AMs doing (or not)? How are they interacting (or not)? What are they doing in FA/tourney/Spire (or not)? I mean, they changed chap 1-5 for a reason. Is it working? Are there unintended consequences from the changes? (Yes—people don’t like they suddenly have to clear 80+ provinces to continue while having no access to previous chapter questlines for resources). What I am finding is the in-game FS suggestion mechanism keeps wanting to funnel me with only fellow newbies and this is a concern. If you play along with these FS, you will find a newbie AM that doesn’t know what they are doing isn’t exactly guiding or maintaining the FS. They are just adrift down a circling drain, taking large swaths of new players with them, which is not conducive to the overall future health of the game.
 

Silly Bubbles

You cant pop them all
Or we can look at it from a different angle as well. Is it more enjoyable as a newbie to be told what to do or figure it out on their own? Of course, player retention is important but is it really related to how much we are told or is it related to having fun doing it ourselves? Also, more experienced FSs can put too much pressure on newbies and that could be too early for someone who is learning the game. Only Inno have the info on what works or what doesn't.

Either way, I do believe that players should have options to make their own choices.
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
Or we can look at it from a different angle as well. Is it more enjoyable as a newbie to be told what to do or figure it out on their own? Of course, player retention is important but is it really related to how much we are told or is it related to having fun doing it ourselves? Also, more experienced FSs can put too much pressure on newbies and that could be too early for someone who is learning the game. Only Inno have the info on what works or what doesn't.

Either way, I do believe that players should have options to make their own choices.
Well if they're idling to inactivity, I'm thinking they're not finding it all that enjoyable figuring it out on their own either. It's not like if they joined an established FS, they need to go into a competitive FS. Most of the FS in the Top 50 are not competitive FS. You can find casual FS with knowledgeable AMs. There are plenty of AMs here with experience and know-how that go at their own pace.
 

Silly Bubbles

You cant pop them all
Well if they're idling to inactivity, I'm thinking they're not finding it all that enjoyable figuring it out on their own either. It's not like if they joined an established FS, they need to go into a competitive FS. Most of the FS in the Top 50 are not competitive FS. You can find casual FS with knowledgeable AMs. There are plenty of AMs here with experience and know-how that go at their own pace.

Yep, all about having choice to do what we want to do. :)
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
One problem with Elvenstats is that it uses score change as an activity determiner. You can play every day but if you are parked or not growing, you can get marked as inactive.
  • If you are exploring and clearing provinces your score is changing
  • If you are leveling wonders, your score is changing
  • If you're placing in the top 100 in tournaments, your score is changing
  • If you build anything your score is changing
  • if you tear anything down your score is changing
  • if you upgrade a building your score is changing
If you aren't doing any of those things, what does it really mean to say you might be playing every day? Moving building around? Drawing pretty pictures with your roads?
 

Lelanya

Scroll-Keeper, Keys to the Gems
  • If you are exploring and clearing provinces your score is changing
  • If you are leveling wonders, your score is changing
  • If you're placing in the top 100 in tournaments, your score is changing
  • If you build anything your score is changing
  • if you tear anything down your score is changing
  • if you upgrade a building your score is changing
If you aren't doing any of those things, what does it really mean to say you might be playing every day? Moving building around? Drawing pretty pictures with your roads?
Whoa, this is way over the top. A player can be visiting, trading, chatting, climbing Spire, and be mired deep in a guest race, working through tech. This can be especially true if they only log in once a day.
All someone has to avoid, is upgrading a building and Tournament, to fly under Blake's radar and be marked inactive.

I have a player who did all of those things for weeks, but ES marked him with the triangle. I always  ask, has anyone seen them, had a notice, before using the trebuchet.
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
Whoa, this is way over the top. A player can be visiting, trading, chatting, climbing Spire, and be mired deep in a guest race, working through tech. This can be especially true if they only log in once a day.
All someone has to avoid, is upgrading a building and Tournament, to fly under Blake's radar and be marked inactive.
No. As I said, they also have to avoid finishing any encounters in any provinces and avoid upgrading wonders.
I have a player who did all of those things for weeks, but ES marked him with the triangle. I always  ask, has anyone seen them, had a notice, before using the trebuchet.
Sure. The one in a a few dozen people who are doing that. Every one of whom is probably in one of the top half of the chapters and almost certainly in a fellowship that knows it, bcuase in lower chapters you can't function without completing some province encounters. The OP specifically talked about fellowships which are more inactives than actives. if a fellowship has more than two or three people who are not showing any activity in Elvenstats, they are probably facing problems recruiting and clinging to dead cities. They are not the sort of groups the game should be suggesting people join. All it would take is calculating a single number in the suggestion list: Fellowship growth in the last 30 days, and if it isn't positive by at least one or two percent, don't tell new players they should join it.
 
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