Fix Fellowships Perks UI

[Aritra]

we're playing the waiting game for helya to crush our hopes and aspirations

Don't shoot the messenger!

 

[crackie]

Don't shoot the messenger!

I would never! We need her (to clean up the mess we’re making). Those are her words, not mine!

 

[helya]

I think another market has this on the list for the next voting cycle, or something very similar. My suggestion would be to hold off voting until we're see how their idea fares.

 

[crackie]

Alright. I shall stand on the shoulder of other markets to build up greater anticipation and expectations, so the higher the fall when disappointment calls!

(but our version has a Snacks tab!)

 

[helya]

This is the general idea of the suggestion that was voted for

Add a description of the origin of the Fellowship Experience, so the Fellowship members can see/analyze which 'side' of their Fellowship is strong and which should be improved.
For example:
Fellowship Experience Total: 50,000 points
...which consists of...
Spire: 10,000 points
Tournament: 35,000 points
Neighborly help: 5,000 points


So your suggestion is different enough that I think I can add it without it getting removed as a duplicate if you'd like to start voting on it. Plus, snacks!

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

This is the general idea of the suggestion that was voted for

Add a description of the origin of the Fellowship Experience, so the Fellowship members can see/analyze which 'side' of their Fellowship is strong and which should be improved.
For example:
Fellowship Experience Total: 50,000 points
...which consists of...
Spire: 10,000 points
Tournament: 35,000 points
Neighborly help: 5,000 points

Weird suggestion. That is like playing a Final Fantasy game and wanting a running total of how much XP is gained from each type of monster defeated in the game.

 

[crackie]

This is the general idea of the suggestion that was voted for

Add a description of the origin of the Fellowship Experience, so the Fellowship members can see/analyze which 'side' of their Fellowship is strong and which should be improved.
For example:
Fellowship Experience Total: 50,000 points
...which consists of...
Spire: 10,000 points
Tournament: 35,000 points
Neighborly help: 5,000 points


So your suggestion is different enough that I think I can add it without it getting removed as a duplicate if you'd like to start voting on it. Plus, snacks!

Errr...so instead of using the level number indicated by the number next to the yellow star to say where you are at for a specific Perk, they want to know how much XP was spent to get there? Am I reading that right because that doesn't sound very useful? Like if you have one perk at lvl 6 and then you recently unlocked a new perk at lvl 1, that last perk has a lot of overhead built in thanks to the increases of previously unlocked perks. And that number will change depending on what order you unlock things. Therefore, two perks at the same level can cost different amounts...right? *scratches head*

 

[Myne]

IMHO, their suggestion should be added to ours, not the other way around. We are asking for use improvements; they are asking for accounting, which confuses me for sure.

 

[helya]

Errr...so instead of using the level number indicated by the number next to the yellow star to say where you are at for a specific Perk, they want to know how much XP was spent to get there? Am I reading that right because that doesn't sound very useful? Like if you have one perk at lvl 6 and then you recently unlocked a new perk at lvl 1, that last perk has a lot of overhead built in thanks to the increases of previously unlocked perks. And that number will change depending on what order you unlock things. Therefore, two perks at the same level can cost different amounts...right? *scratches head*

IMHO, their suggestion should be added to ours, not the other way around. We are asking for use improvements; they are asking for accounting, which confuses me for sure.

The idea is already forwarded, so we can only comment on it with suggestions or submit a totally new one. It just needs to be different enough from the forwarded idea that it won't get removed as a duplicate.

 

[crackie]

Yeah, submit totally new one! I think it's different enough because I read their proposal and was already prematurely disappointed.
Just as the 300 Spartans cried out at the Battle of Thermapylae...FOR THE SNACKS!!!

 

[Sprite1313]

Just as the 300 Spartans cried out at the Battle of Thermapylae...FOR THE SNACKS!!!

I thought that was William Wallace at the Battle of Stirling… are you sure you have the correct historically inaccurate film? I thought it was “THEY SHALL NEVER TAKE OUR SNACKS!”

 

[Myne]

The only thing in our proposal that remotely resembles theirs is item #2. Maybe we wait to see what devs say about their proposal, and if necessary, either remove #2 or simply state we want to be able to see the points available. By default, their suggestion would have the devs make points available for view.
@crackie what do you think? I am interested in the reaction of the devs to their suggestion. It will give us an idea how ours would be received. Don't get me wrong, I believe our proposal is by far the better.

 

[crackie]

It sounds like I don’t have to do anything. I don’t think I would even vote for that proposal as I don’t see how it’s all that useful. Like I’ve said, two perks of the same level could potentially cost drastically differing amounts of XP depending on the order the FS unlocks them. How does knowing what you’ve spent on them going to give you useful data points? After spending the XP, instead of analyzing how much you’ve spent on each, they should be asking things like “Do we have enough capacity to store rollover point?” or “Are people spending their free KPs?” That gives a better analysis of where the weaknesses are and what the heck you should unlock next! There are more pertinent fires to put out with Perk system as it currently exists. That problem is not one of them. I sure don’t want to make it part of mine nor will I adjust my proposal to accommodate such a lackluster idea. Everything is cloudy with a chance of tears in the Ideas and Suggestions forum. I might as well shoot for bigger asks if they’re likely going to kill my hopes and aspirations anyway.

 

[Yogi Dave]

Like I’ve said, two perks of the same level could potentially cost drastically differing amounts of XP depending on the order the FS unlocks them. How does knowing what you’ve spent on them going to give you useful data points?

I think the info is how the FS got the XP, not which perks they are currently being used in. The intend, as I read it, is to let you see if maybe you need to work to get more XP from tourneys. I don't see much utility in that info, but some people like to know where their money came from.

 

[crackie]

I thought that was William Wallace at the Battle of Stirling… are you sure you have the correct historically inaccurate film? I thought it was “THEY SHALL NEVER TAKE OUR SNACKS!”

Well I don’t know now that you’ve seeded doubt into my head by insinuating movies lie! I think it was the Spartans though. You get 10-pack abs when you risk guarding the sacred snacks with your life instead of eating them. Are people trying to take the haggis from the Scots? That theory sounds less plausible.

 

[crackie]

I think the info is how the FS got the XP, not which perks they are currently being used in. The intend, as I read it, is to let you see if maybe you need to work to get more XP from tourneys. I don't see much utility in that info, but some people like to know where their money came from.

If that is the case, I agree that is still a useless data point. It’s 4K for one tourney chest or Spire Crystal. You want to compare that with 10 or 20XP at a time from handshaking your fellows? If you need to know how much Spire or tourney you are doing weekly by analyzing XP points, then I think the problems originate from outside the Perks system...

 

[Yogi Dave]

Well I don’t know now that you’ve seeded doubt into my head by insinuating movies lie! I think it was the Spartans though. You get 10-pack abs when you risk guarding the sacred snacks with your life instead of eating them. Are people trying to take the haggis from the Scots? That theory sounds less plausible.

We may be misunderstanding what we are misunderstanding from each other. I was talking about what I thought was you misunderstanding this proposal:

Add a description of the origin of the Fellowship Experience, so the Fellowship members can see/analyze which 'side' of their Fellowship is strong and which should be improved.
For example:
Fellowship Experience Total: 50,000 points
...which consists of...
Spire: 10,000 points
Tournament: 35,000 points
Neighborly help: 5,000 points

So, now I'm totally confused, but that's a good state in this case.

 

[crackie]

We may be misunderstanding

It’s ok bc I was talking to @Sprite1313

 

[Sprite1313]

I think the info is how the FS got the XP, not which perks they are currently being used in. The intend, as I read it, is to let you see if maybe you need to work to get more XP from tourneys. I don't see much utility in that info, but some people like to know where their money came from.

I agree (of course, painfully, this also means that I agree with @crackie). Is there any AM or Mage (at least in an active fellowship) who doesn’t already know how many chests they are getting, and how many points in spire (at least knowing silver/gold)? And you can tell from gold/green hands which members of your FS don’t seem to be visiting often. I think this alternate proposal is not very helpful.

While it may tell us where our points derived, it doesn’t address the deficiencies in the actual UI, nor does it help with the accountability of who chose the perk and when.

Personally, I would rather see the FS summary page show what level the FS is on for each possible perk, than a description of how they derived the points. That might give potential members a better sense of FS priorities. Is the level 8 FS spreading perk points over all four perks? Focused on one or two?

 

[helya]

Personally, I would rather see the FS summary page show what level the FS is on for each possible perk, than a description of how they derived the points. That might give potential members a better sense of FS priorities. Is the level 8 FS spreading perk points over all four perks? Focused on one or two?

As of today, a current level 8 FS is not using all perk points on one perk, they'd only be at level 7 if they were (and if they were earning the max available points per week).