Game Rules or "Pushing"

[DeletedUser3640]

So....after exploring the map and visiting some of my neighbors I found that many use the second (third/fourth and so on w/e) city (techically an account) to improve their Ancient Wonders by transfering Knowledge Points (KP). It's pretty obvious, because an undeveloped cities (developed just enough to reach "main city") who are not in the fellowship are spending KP in a huge quantities on Ancient Wonders that are located in one particular city (too bad you can check the history....right?). Of course, owners of so called "second cities" might just be a very kind people who are playing for the sake of charity, but I don't buy it this time. Plus in all cases these cities have different goods buildings than the "main city". What a coincidence...... Can't really prove that the trading occurs between them, but I'm pretty sure of it.

Of course, many city building games prohibit such actions, so I went to the forum to read the rules once again. And what a surprise, there it was:

"Operating a “push-account” is forbidden. This is defined as unbalanced routine resource (resources, Knowledge Points etc.) transfers from one account to the next even if involved accounts do not belong to the same player.
It is forbidden to create trades in any form (goods, Knowledge Points etc.) that involve multiple worlds.

Please note that it is strictly forbidden to use the invite feature to invite yourself or players that share an internet connection with you."

Judging by the ranks of these players (main cities), they are doing this for a while....a long while. Kinda explains high ranks too, lol. Which means that there is a rule, but noone is watching over it.

And just to be clear - I'm not jealous or anything like that, I just prefer a fair game. Diamonds cost quite a lot here, and they don't really make you advance that much faster - so that's an acceptable "unfairness". Plus it's a browser strategy game, which is meant to test your logic, and not multiple account creation skills.

This issue can be solved in a multiple ways:

1) some kind of software that detects such *insert a swear/curse word* automatically (prety sure there are some on the market, because many games have them);
2) removing KP transfer outside of the fellowship (yeah, there is a downside to this and it won't get rid of a goods trading option, but at least that would make creation of multiple accounts less tempting or force these *insert a swear/curse word* to play in fellowships with their own low-rank accounts, which would make them more noticeable).

Sorry for my grammar and a lot of text, but I'm kinda tilted about this situation.

 

[DeletedUser1901]

I would be careful with judging on this. All my fellowships have round robins that donate HUGE amounts of KP to AW's and I have had map neighbors donate very generous amounts to mine as well for unknown reasons (perhaps the awards?)... Have you been stuck in the Dwarven chapter yet? How about the Orcs? I've been stuck prior to getting to these chapters and I didn't want to lose my KP to the black hole so off to an AW they go...

Just because you see a thing does not make it what you assume it to be. I'm not saying that push accounts do not happen but...

 

[DeletedUser3640]

Let me ask you: were you thinking of AW awards when your main hall was lvl 8? Were you thinking of donating all KP to your neighbor (ONE AND ONLY, because you're obviously in love with him/her) on a daily basis? Were you thinking "ehh, screw my city, I don't like it, let me better help that unknown guy next to me who are 5 chapters ahead of me"? ....... Guess not, but hey, if it's "yes" to any of them, be my guest and call me liar and that I'm making things up.

Yes, I get it, if they (admins or whoever can do that) will run a check, it will wipe quite a lot of players, especially in the top ranks...but.......rules are rules. Plus, if you didn't do anything wrong there is nothing to fear about, right?

 

[DeletedUser188]

Unless a player opened the different accounts one right after another its highly unlikely they could be their own neighbor
A player can still get in trouble if a neighbor donates mass quantities of KP.s without getting any in return
unbalanced routine resource (resources, Knowledge Points etc.) transfers from one account to the next even if involved accounts do not belong to the same player.
I would think a city half a world away donating all their KPS would most likely be that player with 2 or more cities pushing their account
Do you really think coming on the forums and accusing your neighbors of cheating the right way to go about this
There is nothing that we the players on the forum can do about this
Contact support if you feel that these players are cheating

 

[DeletedUser3640]

Unless a player opened the different accounts one right after another its highly unlikely they could be their own neighbor
A player can still get in trouble if a neighbor donates mass quantities of KP.s without getting any in return
unbalanced routine resource (resources, Knowledge Points etc.) transfers from one account to the next even if involved accounts do not belong to the same player.
I would think a city half a world away donating all their KPS would most likely be that player with 2 or more cities pushing their account
Do you really think coming on the forums and accusing your neighbors of cheating the right way to go about this
There is nothing that we the players on the forum can do about this
Contact support if you feel that these players are cheating

1) Old inactive cities (players) disappear after some time, and are replaced by new cities (players) - that's how you get multiple accounts in your neighborhood with a very high probability.
2) This rule is not enforced by any means....what's your point.
3) I'm not accusing anyone, didn't write a single nickname, just some facts and thoughts on the rules.
4) Support ticket that says "hey guys, you kinda have a set of rules, have you even read them?". That will help. Plus I really wanted to see how many people will be against it, just to see ones who are doing it.... But you ruined it lol.

 

[DeletedUser3312]

Let's review;
small cities do not grow. donate kp to one other city that is growing...
cities are scattered all over the map... and have all different goods. only one city seems to be benefitting.

MY Conclusion aka IMHO:
Sounds like someone has built a FS and added their different accounts to the member roster. and by opening tabs for each city, they can make crazy cross trades to help #1 city. (it's done more than you think in this and other games) and they donate all KP to #1 city. Building dummy cities to prosper #1 city is a long time trait of a lot of people. The game should have a build in monitoring system that indicates when the same IP shows up in more than one case. However, there are also families that play and while it is the same IP, they do have legit accounts. Example... your have 4 kids that play the game. so this could be the case in some circumstances.

However when only one city is benefiting, then there is a major red flag. If I discovered this I would take screen shots and turn them in. It is, again my opinion, very unsportsman like to do this.

stepping down from my soap box now.

 

[SoggyShorts]

I can imagine some will say, ooh it wasn't me.. my wife/kids in the same household were just trying to help.. I still see it as pushing.. just my humble opinion.

I think that is going too far. My wife and I do play together, and I'd be pretty annoyed if we got banned for no real reason.

The safest way to start enforcing the no pushing rule would be to ban the IP of accounts that have donated more KP than they have spent in their own research tree, and go from there--a small step at a time.

Doing things on a case by case basis is unrealistic, but making a search(and destroy) algorithm should be done with care and forethought.

 

[DeletedUser1987]

As someone with several cities with lvl 8 Main halls (well, one is up to 11 now) and who routinely donates those cities' KP to random neighbors (well, not so much anymore, not since I was able to get into Fellowships), I check my alt cities several times a day. Not nearly as frequently as my main city, and so supplies and coins acrue more slowly on my alt cities. If I get to a bottleneck, where I need significantly more supplies than I have saved up (currently my Elcysandir city is stuck waiting on the 50k resources for ancient elven wonders) I really have nothing better to do than donate KP to my neighbors. It's not like I will be able to keep saving up KP if I don't donate them.

 

[DeletedUser3312]

I think that is going too far. My wife and I do play together, and I'd be pretty annoyed if we got banned for no real reason.

exactly Soggs, that was my reference to the 4 kids playing. And families do help each other when they play. that is to be expected. unless your siblings lol.. then it's "what'll you give me for that" grins. but the key words are "help each other"

I agree, the game should have built in coding to scan for things like this. but, it may not really be that important to Inno. It looks good on their books to have so many players.

 

[DeletedUser188]

1) Old inactive cities (players) disappear after some time, and are replaced by new cities (players) - that's how you get multiple accounts in your neighborhood with a very high probability

Where's your proof
At the current rate of player movement that would take decades
The likeliness of this happening is next to impossible not highly probable

2) This rule is not enforced by any means....what's your point

Once again where's your proof it isn't being enforced
I know for a fact it is but cant talk about it without being banned

3) I'm not accusing anyone, didn't write a single nickname, just some facts and thoughts on the rules

So....after exploring the map and visiting some of my neighbors I found that many use the second (third/fourth and so on w/e) city (techically an account) to improve their Ancient Wonders by transfering Knowledge Points (KP). It's pretty obvious, because an undeveloped cities (developed just enough to reach "main city") who are not in the fellowship are spending KP in a huge quantities on Ancient Wonders that are located in one particular city (too bad you can check the history....right?). Of course, owners of so called "second cities" might just be a very kind people who are playing for the sake of charity, but I don't buy it this time. Plus in all cases these cities have different goods buildings than the "main city". What a coincidence...... Can't really prove that the trading occurs between them, but I'm pretty sure of it.

I get it this is all hypothetical and these neighbors you are accusing of cheating aren't actually cheating or aren't actually your neighbors
So what exactly is the point of this thread

 

[SoggyShorts]

All they need to do is Join the same Fellowship....

Actually, not even that. You can donate wonder KP to anyone anywhere.

 

[DeletedUser188]

How sad and wrong you are here... All they need to do is Join the same Fellowship.... They can be a long way from the other.... Maybe you didn't Know this maybe you did.... But I can tell you Inno doesn't care about it....

You must not have read my whole post
How sad and wrong of you

I would think a city half a world away donating all their KPS would most likely be that player with 2 or more cities pushing their account

Like Soggyshorts said anyone anywhere on map can contribute to anyones AW you don't need to be part of same fellowship
But you knew that already didn't you

 

[Maz Mellor]

I don't know how anyone would cheat between/across game worlds, but I have encountered more than one player operating two cities in the same world—even, as Shylark says, in the same fellowship. In one case, the names of the two accounts were so similar, it was like they weren't even trying to hide it from Inno. This is definitely a Thing That Happens, and it would be great if there were a way to police it fairly.

Emphasis on fairly, though. I have a husband and wife in my fellowship in Arendyll, and they are both as generous with their other fellows as they are with each other. I would not like to see Inno do anything that would make it difficult for them or any other couple (or family, for that matter) to play the game together.

 

[DeletedUser1987]

I can imagine where Inno would consider it not cheating, even if they're in the same fellowship.

If someone gets one city to a higher level, then decides they don't like the way the buildings look and they want to make a different race/different production boosts city, they shouldn't be penalized for deciding they want to keep their original city that they put so much effort into. They also shouldn't be penalized for wanting to stay in the same fellowship they've always been in, either because they don't want to penalize their fellowship by taking their higher scoring older city out to make room for their lower scoring newer city, or because they don't want to deal with the hassle of finding a new fellowship they like for their older city.

 

[DeletedUser3610]

And who cares?

This.

 

[DeletedUser3610]

We all should care about CHEATERS...... And yes I sure DO..... But by some of the responses we see who the ones are that are Most likely the CHEATERS....

Sure. I couldn't care less about cheaters in this game. They don't affect me in any way because I don't care about rank at all. So be so kind and stop telling me what I should and shouldn't care about. And stop accusing me of cheating just because I don't care about the same things you do.

 

[DeletedUser3610]

ladeda

What?

 

[DeletedUser3297]

I have a small city on Arendyll and I like exactly how it is. I got to the point of completing advance scouts on chapter 4, but haven't unlocked it yet. It's refreshing to go there and fight in the provinces for fun, not because I need any expansions. I also try to help out with trading and show others how to play the game. I don't know if I will advance that city anymore so I am using all my KP to boost my neighbors wonder. I have no idea who this person is other than we have talked and she has shown me some things about the game and she has helped me. Plus maybe someday I will build the wonder I am donating to, but until that day comes, I decide how I want my city to look and I decide how to use my KP. Maybe one day I'll advance it again, but for now I like how it is so I am not going to just waste KP, I am doing good for another player with it

 

[DeletedUser1987]

let's stick to the rules as they are stated, and we all agreed to when signed up to play.

you know where to find the game rules, i'll not go into detail about how to click on them within the forums.

If you are a violator of the rules, and it seems you are by what I see in your confession above. i'm sure some mercy will come on the first offence, but i'd like an opportunity to enforce the rules, seems to me the designers saw this coming and could use someone like me to keep everyone in check.

Yeah, I'd rather you not be free to punish everyone who you see as being "cheating".

What exactly is a "routine unbalanced resource transfer" anyway? If someone from my fellowship is constantly putting up three star trades because they have more resources than they know what to do with, is that a routine unbalanced resource transfer? Will you ban them because they want to get rid of their resources, even though they're posting evil unbalanced trades?

Frankly, I think this portion of the ToS is a bit.... unrealistic, and maybe in need of rewriting. It forbids family members who live in the same household to use the invite feature to invite their family members? Do they not want people to invite their family to the game or something? It forbids people who are friends with multiple cities on multiple worlds from trading with each other and helping each other. Do they not want people in this game to be social?

You have a forum, where people from all worlds are brought together to talk to each other and make friendships. You're going to end up with situations where people want to help each other.

Frankly, with my playing every day, my alt cities are beginning to surpass many, many other cities in score. There's a chance that in the distant future I might end up in a fellowship with my friends on Arendyll or Winyandor simply because they're active and in high scoring fellowships and my alt cities are gradually becoming active and high scoring cities. If I happen to end up in the same fellowship as someone else in two worlds, am I suddenly not allowed to give them KP in one world, and if so, which one? I've seen Mykan around on the forums, and just noticed that my alt city is in the same fellowship as them. Am I not allowed to donate KP to their wonder because it's my alt city, and I happened to know Mykan on the forums before the fellowship that accepted my please let me into this fellowship I need supplies request was Mykan's fellowship?

The terms of this part of the ToS are kind of impossible in the long term.

As I said I have Proof of the same person playing more than 1 account and in the Same Fellowship to ME That is Wrong... To Inno they can careless about it.. So as for anything or anyone else it all is a USELESS TOPIC......

And again, why do you think that it is wrong for a person to not want to give up their fellowship they've built up ties in just because they decided they wanted to make a different city?

Taking their older city out of the fellowship torpedos the fellowship's ranking, and also the carefully built trading balance. It's not fair to anyone else in the fellowship for someone who wanted to make a new city because they got tired of their old one in some way to take the old one out of the fellowship.

 

[DeletedUser1987]

Exactly. You would be harsh and cold and perma ban any account that you even suspected of being someone who is account sharing, thus banning anyone who regularly posts three star trades, anyone who plays with their family member, anyone who isn't a family member but who happened to join the game because their friend asked them to and regularly donates KP to their friend because they can, anyone who donates KP to a random higher scoring city whenever they're research locked because it's an alt city, it doesn't accumulate resources to unlock research as fast as it would if it was a main city, and generally anyone else who wasn't doing anything wrong because you think they look funny.

Also, is anyone else lagging really horribly? I accidentally double posted back there and can't go back and edit them to be one post because the lag is so horrible.