Gripe and Bemoan the Horrors of (BAD) Cross-tier (ALWAYS)

[Deleted User - 312108]

With the Jester's Tavern and some of the other event buildings there is a definite excess of T3 (especially gems) abounding. Honestly if I am truly short on T1 or T2 with the glut of T3.... I will post cross-tier trades, but I will post 1k t3 for 2k t2 or 1k t3 for 4k t1. I'll occasionally accept them when I have a glut of T1 or T2 goods but usually only if they are at least 3 stars. Where I have jester's tavern I have actually dropped down to only 2 T3 factories to help offset the glut

I think people have to realize when they ask for a cross-tier of T1 for T3 that a 2 star trade really isn't fair when it is being done on a regular basis.

 

[SoggyShorts]

. I mean, we had pretty OP T3 producers in Sleds and Winter Trees right in the Winter event, and unlike Jester's you could get multiple of those. Yet impact, if any, was short lived.

The difference is that the Jesters was the GP and many players feel that getting the GP is the main point of an event. Getting the winter stuff required not rolling on any non-set days and really planning ahead.

 

[DeletedUser20951]

When I absently scan the bleak, cross-tiered wasteland that stretches out as far as the eye can see, I have been finding myself musing on nonsensical questions... What, exactly, is their overall goods situation, besides overflowing with third tier? Do enough take pity and (or accidentally) click on these trades at a rate that sustains their expenses? Have many broken down, rebuilt the other tiered factories, now offer regular trades that are accepted before I get a glimpse, and the cross-tier dredges left over are merely meant to supplement a glut of every good? Or do they constantly struggle to make ends meet and refuse to adapt? If I believed I had the willpower to pen a message that wasn't hostile and insulting, I might be tempted to ask. *taps chin thoughtfully*

 

[DeletedUser20951]

Curses! I let this fall back to the third page! (and my horrible poll title typo must live on for justified punishment of self)

Aside from the lack of messaging on mobile, which doesn't affect me much personally, but I am offended on the behalf of others, I believe the cross-tier scourge is the single most annoying impediment to an enjoyable gameplay experience.

At least give us a better Trader filtering system, Inno! I BEG OF YE.

 

[DeletedUser20255]

[QUOTE="Nonchalant Antipathy, post: 138233, member: I'd also think it would go without saying that anybody offering seventeen thousand first tier for a puny thousand third tier would be an awesome cross-tier trade for whoever accepts it, but I could be wrong. *squints*[/QUOTE]

I think some of you guys forget what it's like to be a newbie. I've been playing the game for about a year. A lot have been playing less. It wasn't until I was bored enough to check out the forums that I discovered somebody had done the math and that 16:4:1 was crap. There's a lotta folks out there just think of higher tier goods as higher denomination bills. You know. You've got one dollar bills, 4 dollar bills and 16 dollar bills. I'm doing my best to re-educate but it's slow. Some seem to appreciate the wisdom but a lot falls on stony ground.

Not saying there aren't some that know better setting a trap for fools but that's not all of them.

 

[Ashrem]

Not saying there aren't some that know better setting a trap for fools but that's not all of them.

Nobody thinks it's all of them. A lot of us think that it's unreasonable that Inno keeps labeling it as reasonable, which is the only thing players can depend on unless someone shows them the math.

All we want, is for Inno to either explain what we are missing about hwy it is a fair trade, or acknowledge it isn't and stop labeling them as such. Then the people who don't know better would accept their indicators, and the people who do it deliberately would see their trades fall to the bottom of the list.

 

[DeletedUser20951]

There's a lotta folks out there just think of higher tier goods as higher denomination bills.

Aye, this seems to be the most common misconception, and it's reinforced by the (what I consider) improper trade ratios. I mean, I think there's a lot of stuff which should be self-evident, such as needing many first tier goods and logically* assuming everybody else needs a lot, too, a judgmental view (I have many of those) I realize isn't fair to newbies, but I don't hold them to the same standards as veteran players. I've made this distinction, off and on, but it does bear repeating.

*if you've been playing a while, it's logical, otherwise, from a new player standpoint, it would be quite rational to assume that basic goods become either obsolete or less important** as you advance.

**they sorta do, but not to the extent strongly implied by the Trader.

I don't think I've ever said that cross-tiers should be banned or anything like that- Oooo, THUNDER. Tear the sky asunder! *clears throat* But I would like a filter option that both respects my decision to not partake in cross-tier trading, while allowing those who disagree to continue to post and accept 'em.

 

[DeletedUser20951]

Wanted to attempt giving a simple object lesson in the effect of cross-tier trading a go, because I'm in the mood to, and which I'll no doubt botch, as it requires simple math (FLEE!).

Now, picture this is what you see when you open up your Main Hall:

500 K 500 K 500 K | 500 K 500 K 500 K

And assume your trading partner has the same amounts. You accept the following trade:

Bringing your totals to:

500 K 100 K 500 K | 500 K 600 K 500 K

Then roughly balancing to:

370 K 360 K 370 K | 535 K 530 K 535 K

The result of doing the same for the other player is:

635 K 630 K 635 K | 470 K 460 K 470 K

Side by side comparison of the two:

Which would you rather have?

(yes, a lot of the reason I decided to do this is remembering that you could insert the goods icons and tinkering with 'em sounded fun XD)

DUDE, dude, I did manage to screw up adding four and five hundred together! *facepalms and cackles, then runs off to correct*

 

[DeletedUser20255]

I get it. Even tho the 2 remain equal at Inno conversion rates they are not really because 16:4:1 is out of whack. I accepted that reality months ago and its reinforced by the current glut of T3 goods and cross-tier trades always offering higher for lower. I get it!
I have 2 or 3 worst offenders in my FS. They never respond to chat or message so I have no way of knowing if I'm getting through to them. Their trades just sit there cluttering up the place and I don't know if they know why. Most of them are 3 star trades which they might mistakenly think makes them ok. But we know it doesn't. Maybe they are hoping some newbie will take them.
But I don't want to ban cross-tier trades. My predecessor did that and she left because the membership rebelled. So all I can do is to continue to try and educate and explain my philosophy of posting and accepting trades.
(BTW. Love your writing style, Nonchalant!)

 

[DeletedUser22511]

feeling lazy to read all reply....so long....
anyways, yes I do put it up in desperate time...but more like 100 tier 2 to 400 tier 1...never in big amount like pictures posted here...
some say 1:4 is bad but then what's good ratio?
always doing 2 starts...

 

[DeletedUser23255]

I reckon this problem could be solved very easily if it was a global trade on each world, showed 50-100 trades on each page so there’s less pages with a combination of filters between amount of goods, lowest < > highest ratio (favouring offer or favouring demand), tiers, specific goods, FS and player name.

Obviously if they changed to global and had a better filter system the oldest trades would have to be on top out of identical trades to allow trades to go quickly.

Part of the reason unfair trades exist is there’s such a small pool to trade with and from. So each trade has a lot more weight for getting accepted at a unfair amount to the one taking the deal then it would if competing against everyone

 

[DeletedUser20255]

feeling lazy to read all reply....so long....
anyways, yes I do put it up in desperate time...but more like 100 tier 2 to 400 tier 1...never in big amount like pictures posted here...
some say 1:4 is bad but then what's good ratio?
always doing 2 starts...

According to people who have done the math the correct ratio should be 5:2:1. Thats what I use for accepting (unless I'm helping out a new member). for posting I go for whatever the market will bear depending on how desperate I am that might be more like 10:3:1

 

[DeletedUser1836]

View attachment 5490
Just opened up my Trader a moment ago to this lovely sight, followed by about twenty-three out of twenty-eight pages of much the same, only smaller. I was going to place some trades, but I was too disgusted and simply wandered off, instead. XD

As the amounts get larger, it becomes even more obvious that anybody accepting these would be basically giving goods away, and I am still completely puzzled over how the mind of someone who posts them works. Do they genuinely not recognize how unfair the exchange is? Do they feel the world owes them virtual handouts? Not sure I want to know, really, but I can't stop wondering, especially now that how many are posted in both of my neighborhoods is rapidly expanding.

I totally agree with you on the cross tier trades and it is becoming more and more common I have 4 pages of these . I refuse to take them.

 

[Ashrem]

According to people who have done the math the correct ratio should be 5:2:1.

Except that was before the T3 glut. For me to accept a cross-tier trade involving T3 now, it owuld have to be closer to 10:4:7. Yes. In my opinion, T3 is currently worth less than (barely over half of) T2, and only slightly more than T1

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Except that was before the T3 glut. For me to accept a cross-tier trade involving T3 now, it owuld have to be closer to 10:4:7. Yes. In my opinion, T3 is currently worth less than (barely over half of) T2, and only slightly more than T1

Depends on your server and on who is posting trades. I still almost never see trades offering Dust. That seems to stay almost as rare as Scrolls.

 

[Ashrem]

I find dust slightly harder to find than other T3, but not enough to pay T2 for it

 

[DeletedUser20951]

I have 2 or 3 worst offenders in my FS. They never respond to chat or message so I have no way of knowing if I'm getting through to them.

I know how hard it is to recruit in this game, but I would still suggest biting the bullet and booting these unresponsive players for the sake of the entire fellowship. The clutter in the Trader would be bothering the fellows who don't post cross-tier, and having your leadership and group consensus consistently ignored is horrible for morale, likely driving off active, engaged players.

(BTW. Love your writing style, Nonchalant!)

*tips hat and bows* Much obliged! I love writing and lampooning pomposity, although I sure put out some clunky-style sentences due to my mental thesaurusing to avoid overusing words. XD

In my opinion, T3 is currently worth less than (barely over half of) T2, and only slightly more than T1

I fully agree. The trading economy has become this skewed.

 

[Vergazi]

There's two economies going on parallel. One is the players with taverns and the other is the ones without taverns. Simplistic? perhaps...but also some truth to it. As far as viable ratios go, it seems to change with the winds where I am on Ceravyn. Anywhere from 5:2.5:1 to 4:2:1 or even 4:2:2 lately to have any chance of getting any tier 2. ( yes, i do some cross tier to get goods for fellows ) I have rarely had a shortage of tier3 and don't have a tavern ( i have 4 tier3 manus ) On cities with 3 or 2 tier3 manus I have run shortages, however. But generally, yeah, the whole trade situation is totally ( bad word omitted ) messed up atm.

a word of calm - I'm sure Inno isn't stupid institutionally, they surely must know this is an issue and are no doubt in my mind working on a fair way to address it long-term. As @Ashrem and others I believe have pointed out Inno's plate is very full right now dealing with various changes coming up with flash and all of that. Just be patient and it'll probably be fixed before you know it. here, that's all the pollyanna-ishness I can muster in this lifetime on this subject. We're DOOOOOOOMED! ( heads for the liferafts )

<3 @ Inno

 

[Ashrem]

I'm not sure there are any good answers. While the Tavern is the worst offender, it isn't the only probelm, and anything that balances the goods that exist today will penalize anyone who doesn't have the Tavern. Maybe the Tavern could start consuming T2 goods to continue to function. Say [Tavern-levelx100] scrolls per day to reset it after collecting. (That avoid bleeding anyone who isn't online). If my Chapter 11 Tavern suddenly cost 1100 scrolls every time I collected, I'd have to think seriously about its value.

 

[mucksterme]

i like frogs