I just can't...

[Smooper]

I have a city in a regular newb fellowship. The kind that runs from about rank 90 down to wherever fellowships stop. I know it is time for me to go because...it's just so frustrating. Let me list the reasons why:

• pages of tier 3 offers for tier 1 and 2 demands
• cities with so many roads. roads everywhere
• cities in all kinds of shapes. C-shape, L-shape, long and skinny
• 9 kinds of manufactories. If you can build it why not put it in your city
• direct mail to the fellowship with "suggestions" on how to do better...followed by crickets
• I could list more but it will just get nitpicky. This is enough.

I want to be helpful; I recruit, I give neighborly help and advice but I don't want to be that bossy guy. Sure, play as you like but I don't think I can lose anymore hair watching you play like this.

I blame INNO for new players not understanding the mechanics. Yeah, I get it fellows, those quests are really annoying and especially the story I don't care about. Tell me what, how and why to do something in a quest form and these newbs would actually not remain newbs for years.

p.s. I had a post not long ago that said "last rant"...I apologize. This really is the last rant.

*crosses fingers

 

[Mighty Peach]

It's a f2p game with a very low barrier of entry. Just need a pulse. So you're going to have large swathes of clueless participants. This applies to many different areas in life with low barriers of entry. Ever been to a budget gym? How many people actually are doing exercises properly? Put more plates on that leg press machine man! That 1/8 rep is really awesome! That's actually a pet peeve of mine. I almost never see someone doing a proper leg press. Because it's hard as crap to go full range of motion on it right at a bottom of the movement and you can't use a billion plates.

Back to the topic. I really love looking at all the interesting city designs. Even when some of them are super weird. I saw one the other day in the shape of a cross. I just assumed they were a hardcore religious person. Maybe trying to convert fellow players. Who knows right. But yes, it's another issue entirely when you have people who refuse to get better in your own fellowship and you have to end of carrying them. The funniest is when I see a huge amount of lvl 1 evolving buildings. Like dude, come on now.

 

[Myne]

my pet peeve is the city with roads going around buildings INDIVIDUALLY. omg make me wanna slap myself.

 

[Darielle]

Smooper, you may want to have some rules on the Overview and tell everyone that they have 30 days to comply. If they don't, then tell them you can help them find a fellowship where no one cares about helping themselves or the team. (Condescending, but some people need hammers instead of compliments.) If I had a fellowship of newbies, I'd probably write:

In order to gain more goods, perks and tourney chests for our members, we've established rules for the benefit of all.

1. Build and keep only your boosted manufactories. If you don't know which are your boosts, ask me and I'll be happy to look it up for you.
2. Two and three star trades only please. No t3 to t1 crosstrades unless they are 3 star. (If you don't know what t3 or t1 are, please ask.) If you need a trade desperately, drop me a note or add it to chat and I'll help, as long as it is 2-3 star.
3. Please give gifts to everyone in the fellowship daily (click on the hands). That helps us to gain perks that can be used for extra points/goods.
4. If you will be gone for more than (?) days, please let me know ahead of time and I'll save your seat.
5. To build our tourney scores and gain more valuable items for everyone, please participate in the tourney every week with at least (?) points. If you will miss a week for a planned break/vacation, let me know ahead of time.
6. The spire is a great resource! It's tough at first, but worth it. Please make it through the first door (defeating four spirits) every week at a minimum. In time, you will be earning diamonds!

If you are new and don't have spire or tourney yet, then disregard those rules until you research them.

Lastly, I'd love to help you optimize your city for space efficiency, which will help you gain more of the goods you need. Just ask me!

 

[Smooper]

Smooper, you may want to have some rules on the Overview and tell everyone that they have 30 days to comply. If they don't, then tell them you can help them find a fellowship where no one cares about helping themselves or the team. (Condescending, but some people need hammers instead of compliments.) If I had a fellowship of newbies, I'd probably write:

In order to gain more goods, perks and tourney chests for our members, we've established rules for the benefit of all.

1. Build and keep only your boosted manufactories. If you don't know which are your boosts, ask me and I'll be happy to look it up for you.
2. Two and three star trades only please. No t3 to t1 crosstrades unless they are 3 star. (If you don't know what t3 or t1 are, please ask.) If you need a trade desperately, drop me a note or add it to chat and I'll help, as long as it is 2-3 star.
3. Please give gifts to everyone in the fellowship daily (click on the hands). That helps us to gain perks that can be used for extra points/goods.
4. If you will be gone for more than (?) days, please let me know ahead of time and I'll save your seat.
5. To build our tourney scores and gain more valuable items for everyone, please participate in the tourney every week with at least (?) points. If you will miss a week for a planned break/vacation, let me know ahead of time.
6. The spire is a great resource! It's tough at first, but worth it. Please make it through the first door (defeating four spirits) every week at a minimum. In time, you will be earning diamonds!

If you are new and don't have spire or tourney yet, then disregard those rules until you research them.

Lastly, I'd love to help you optimize your city for space efficiency, which will help you gain more of the goods you need. Just ask me!

It's not my fellowship to make rules. It's just your typical newb fellowship, one of hundreds. I will move on but the point is that Elvenar doesn't tell people how to play and those who do know can't make others learn. There will be more new players that won't be able to use the forum for help now. It is almost impossible to find those that want to learn and bring them into a fellowship and losing the forum doesn't help.

 

[Darielle]

It's not my fellowship to make rules. It's just your typical newb fellowship, one of hundreds. I will move on but the point is that Elvenar doesn't tell people how to play and those who do know can't make others learn. There will be more new players that won't be able to use the forum for help now. It is almost impossible to find those that want to learn and bring them into a fellowship and losing the forum doesn't help.

I agree ... it's like Inno is trying to kill off the game.

 

[Myne]

I agree ... it's like Inno is trying to kill off the game.

I don't think they are trying to do that, but I do think they are trying to treat it as any other common game. Elvenar is not common, it's a rarity. Though I think that new game Palia might come close...

 

[Darielle]

I don't think they are trying to do that, but I do think they are trying to treat it as any other common game. Elvenar is not common, it's a rarity. Though I think that new game Palia might come close...

Maybe it's not intentional. Maybe they are just too stupid to know that that is what they are doing. Or maybe it is intentional. I can just hear some corporate fellow saying, "New games tend to be more profitable than older ones. Why not utilize our workforce more efficiently and concentrate on those?"

My son, a senior dev, told me that the most profitable period for a new program, provided it has enough exposure, is during the first year. I can vouch for the fact that books usually see their greatest sales during the first year. People like new things.

 

[Dhurrin]

LOL. I am not exactly a newbe. And yet I do have (or rather HAD) 2 cities like that. Because for me those 2 cities were not so much about advancing in the game as about city-building; desigining a city that looks pretty, with a mind for the inhabitants' needs instead of mine.
You have to remember that different people may play the game for different reasons

 

[crackie]

I nested with newbies in a newbie fellowship for several months. I have invited a few to play in my established Gold FS. I have played a new city to test out the new tech tree. But really, anyone can just visit most newbie cities and see they still have 9 different types of factories out to know the tutorial (and their newbie FS leadership) have failed them, and this after they have added a dialogue box explicitly warning them non-boosted factories are a bad idea.

I just assumed they were a hardcore religious person.

No, those are the ones complaining about the game bringing witchcraft element to the game with the cauldron.

 

[Myne]

But really, anyone can just visit most newbie cities and see they still have 9 different types of factories out to know the tutorial (and their newbie FS leadership) have failed them, and this after they have added a dialogue box explicitly warning them non-boosted factories are a bad idea.

I wholeheartedly agree. BUT I will add that having had some of those newbies, that even when I tell them to stop, may not listen. Leading the horse to water and buying the books and sending them to school sayings still apply. Inevitably those players fail at progressing in their cities in a timely manner. I have released scads of them because they will not listen and fail to even achieve the lousy 500 pts I require on a weekly basis. At times, they even argue about it. Makes me wanna have a time out chair sometimes.

Edit: In my experience, the ones that listen are, without exception, happier in the game and stay far longer. Perhaps a bit of code forbidding them to do so until chapter 10 or so is in order.

An edit on the edit: Also perhaps a choice should be made when playing, with a dialog box to choose playing style is also in order.

 

[Smooper]

Yes, the worst problem with newbies who do things inefficiently is the fact that most don't reply to mail, don't chat; they just chug along and so after awhile you either have to release them or live with what they give you as a fellowship.

Then there are the ones who do reply or chat a little bit and will take some advice. They might only play once a day and collect way less goods, supplies and gold or troops. They can only contribute so much because their city economy is terrible. I feel sympathy for them because I realize I play this game an unhealthy amount and they have other things in their life. Unless they do 1 hr supply runs, and 3 hour goods productions etc. they are at max. Should be enough for 1500 pts in a tournament but you will probably not get 6 rounds in at the tournament, maybe 5 if you pay attention and 4 if you just casually do it. Don't know they exact amount of provinces you would have to have open but it will be maybe 18.

Forget about a gold spire run. Not enough time or catering units to do that.

 

[Myne]

@Smooper I have been known to send messages with the title line of "Response Required". All hell breaks loose if they don't. Well, as much as the virtual world allows. Back before I started doing that, flags got pulled inappropriately, and all manner of chaos happened. Kind of like kids when you set them free with no rules. lol

 

[ajqtrz]

The thing is a lot of people aren't "into" this game so much as "killing time." So that means just chugging along because that's how you kill time. They don't answer mail because they aren't here to help/serve/please/assist anybody, they are here to, as the often say, "relax." Then, because the little city they start doesn't take a whole lot of time and they have a lot of time to kill, they start another city, and another, and another. Until the time they need to kill is pretty much killed. Equilibrium achieved. For a week or so until all those little cities take a little bit more time. Now it's "which city do I focus on" or "got to keep them all going." Neither is advantageous as the first answer means the other cities (and the fellowships to which they belong) are now going to suffer. Who has time to answer mail? I have 7 cities, I don't have time to be involved with my fellowship on a friendly/personal basis. And the fact that they built those cities before figuring out HOW to do so efficiently compounds the problem as they have to work twice as hard in each to get half the rewards. You can tell this player as they go for months always behind in something.

My "solution" in my fellowship is to look at how many cities the person has. More than 3 and I don't invite them. By 3 I don't mean they don't have more, but that only 3 out of whatever they have, are actually active. I look them up and find that if they have 7, usually 4 are pretty much flat lined and if they are in fellowships on those 4 those too are flat lined.

So what's the answer? In my opinion one thing Inno could do is limit the number of cities to 3. Another is to have a tutorial emphasizing long term strategies over short term procedures. The "why am I doing this" is often more important than the "how do I do this?"

AJ

 

[Myne]

Another is to have a tutorial emphasizing long term strategies over short term procedures. The "why am I doing this" is often more important than the "how do I do this?"

This.

 

[Henroo]

I am considering doing a new city because I want to experience the new tech tree. And I also want to see how fast I can advance through the game, given all I know now. I have not pulled the trigger on it yet, I will probably finish chapter 21 on my 3 existing cities first. However once I do, I will want it to be in a good FS from the get-go. I know myself well enough to know that I tend to get attached to fellowships. So if I joined a newb FS with my new city, I would likely end up trying to improve it rather than moving on to a bigger FS after a few months.

 

[Myne]

I am considering doing a new city because I want to experience the new tech tree.

I am not a fan.

 

[MaidenFair]

But really, anyone can just visit most newbie cities and see they still have 9 different types of factories out to know the tutorial (and their newbie FS leadership) have failed them, and this after they have added a dialogue box explicitly warning them non-boosted factories are a bad idea.

I think the biggest problem is that because the new tech tree is set up with delayed tournament access, and therefore continued low relic boosts for a number of chapters, there is very little actual advantage to boosted productions for those early cities; so if the numbers all look practically the same to them, why wouldn’t they build all the types and make the city more interesting and self-reliant? And if they get dropped on the edge of the map/in a bad neighbourhood where trades aren’t being picked up, they actually need all the manufactory types for a while to be able to play (saw this happen with an experienced player who started a new city to test out the new tech tree). :-/

I can totally understand how a newbie ends up with all the manufactories, and I think it may even be an unfortunate necessity for a while for some players under the new tech tree. And since the tutorial quests don’t tell them all this in great detail, I can understand skepticism at other players telling them later on when they join a fellowship that it needs to be a short-term solution and they will want to reduce to only their boosted as the relic boost eventually grows.

 

[Henroo]

I think the biggest problem is that because the new tech tree is set up with delayed tournament access, and therefore continued low relic boosts for a number of chapters, there is very little actual advantage to boosted productions for those early cities; so if the numbers all look practically the same to them, why wouldn’t they build all the types and make the city more interesting and self-reliant? And if they get dropped on the edge of the map/in a bad neighbourhood where trades aren’t being picked up, they actually need all the manufactory types for a while to be able to play (saw this happen with an experienced player who started a new city to test out the new tech tree). :-/

I can totally understand how a newbie ends up with all the manufactories, and I think it may even be an unfortunate necessity for a while for some players under the new tech tree. And since the tutorial quests don’t tell them all this in great detail, I can understand skepticism at other players telling them later on when they join a fellowship that it needs to be a short-term solution and they will want to reduce to only their boosted as the relic boost eventually grows.

I have never understood why Inno delayed access to fellowships when they revised the tech tree. It is one of the most important parts of the game. Without a fellowship: you are not engaging with other players as much, which is TERRIBLE for player retention. Without a fellowship, you can't take part in the tournament, which is one of the more important and interesting aspects of the game. Once again, TERRIBLE for retention of new players. It almost seems like the team that revised the tech tree don't comprehend what makes the game interesting.

 

[Lelanya]

I have never understood why Inno delayed access to fellowships when they revised the tech tree. It is one of the most important parts of the game. Without a fellowship: you are not engaging with other players as much, which is TERRIBLE for player retention. Without a fellowship, you can't take part in the tournament, which is one of the more important and interesting aspects of the game. Once again, TERRIBLE for retention of new players. It almost seems like the team that revised the tech tree don't comprehend what makes the game interesting.

They misunderstood when we said that new players ought to be prevented from founding their own fellowship.
Plainly it is true: new players should not be founding their own, they should be learning from someone four or more chapters ahead of them.

Clearly Inno read the first part and ignored the second.