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    Your Elvenar Team

Improve Fellowship Event Motivation

Momonar

Member
Right now, the only motivation to participate in a fellowship event is if you like the current evolve building and need 2 more evolve artifacts.
For most mid to high level players, the evolve buildings are less and less useful / desirable.
The FA events are not worth the effort and most fellowships just do the minimum to clear a path on all 3 maps.

Proposal:
For true Fellowship competition, you have to have prizes worth fighting for. A crappy building and 1 or 2 time skips are not it.
The top fellowship in a FA should get a unique building that provides a short-term very cool bonus (or the choice of one of these buildings):
Such as: 1) special military booster building with higher bonus percentage and longer time (+75% damage for 10 days for example).
2) special Spire booster building which awards bonus spire points to the fellowship total upon reaching the top (such as +14), lasts 4 weeks
3) special bonus event building allowing it to be traded in for any prior event building or any 2 prior evolve tokens.
2nd - 5th place: Gets a a reduced version of the special (so +75% damage, lasting 5 days, or +50% damage lasting 10 days, +7 spire points for reaching the top, etc)
6th - 10th place: a standard military booster building of their choice
11th - 20th place: a decent pop/culture building (like igloo),
21st - 30th: (beginning of "normal awards") - 20 2-hr skips, 20 1-hr skips, 20 45-min skips
31st - 40th: 15 2-hr skips, 15 1-hr skips, 15 45-min skips
41st - 50th: 10 2-hr skips, 10 1-hr skips, 10 45-min skips
51st - 200th: 5 2-hr skips, 5 1-hr skips, 5 45-min skips
200+: 1 of each (2 hr, 1 hr, and 45 min skip)

Top 20 fellowships also receive the "normal awards" of 21st place.
 

Myne

Well-Known Member
Honestly, I am afraid to start messing with FAs lest they become even worse. They have some changes coming up, so I will wait and see how it affects everything. BUT I agree, something needs to be done. We have discussed the ability to lock paths, the degree to which the prizes suck, throwing out fellowships/players whose cities/fellowships are inactive, and some other things were discussed over on the post One Thing. I am very sure I will have more to say after the next one. Keep this post alive till then, and I will bend your ear.
 

Hawk1911

Active Member
I agree the current "prizes" are slightly better than garbage and provide no motivation to excel in the FA. I agree, most FS simply do enough to get the 3 paths done and move on. The top 10, do it simply for bragging rights and the comraderey of accomplishment.

I'll be honest though, none of the suggested prizes would motivate me nor my FS to go for first place. The cost for first place is astronomical; not only in the time to collect the badges one at a time, but in inventory items (hourglasses, teleports, pet food,etc..) spent to produce stuff to collect more badges to be thrown into the pit.

I really like @The Fairy idea of extra rewards at milestones. That said, the prize needs to be worth the cost.

Generally, I don't like the Adventure. I grit my teeth and bare it because my mates need the 2 artifacts (occasionally I need them too).
 

Momonar

Member
I also think there should be individual awards for FA participation along the way. A simple bonus for collecting badges which increases each time you achieve a bonus. For example:
Lvl 1 collect 1 <badgetype> badge - earn 10 minute time skip
Lvl 2 collect 3 <badgetype> badges - earn 30 minute time skip
Lvl 3 collect 6 <badgetype> badges - earn 1 hr time skip
Lvl 4 collect 10 <badgetype> badges - earn 2 hr time skip
Lvl 5 collect 15 <badgetype> badges - earn CC spell
Lvl 6 collect 21 <badgetype> badges - earn 10k unurium (or if not at that level, then 10k seeds, or 100k mana, or 10k orcs, level appropriate)
Lvl 7 collect 28 <badgetype> badges - earn 2 sips of clarity
Lvl 8 collect 36 <badgetype> badges - earn 25 squads of random troop instant
Lvl 9 collect 45 <badgetype> badges - earn 10 AW 10 instants
Lvl 10 collect 55 <badgetype> badges - earn 10 five hour skips
etc.

Obviously, thought would be needed to make sure the awards are proportional to the difficulty and offer enough variety to appeal to players at all stages of the game.
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
The cost for first place is astronomical; not only in the time to collect the badges one at a time, but in inventory items (hourglasses, teleports, pet food,etc..) spent to produce stuff to collect more badges to be thrown into the pit.
It’s true. FAs are won in the Pit so you’re literally making badges to throw them into an endless abyss. I don’t mind FAs (though they could ease up on the frequency) as I like the team building exercise and it’s mostly the team aspect of the game I enjoy the most. My main city is in a competitive FS that goes all out for FAs, but I am also the AM of a new FS that is only a few months old with loads of baby cities. The top score in the last FA on that server was 115500, which is insane. The smartest move is to just quit while we're behind. It's much more beneficial for my FS if they keep their timers to build a standing army with Brown Bear so they can improve their tourney and Spire performance than it is to make blow them on witch hats or whatever. I wish there was a middle ground between 115500pts for 1st and just doing 3 paths for the more moderately competitive FSs. I am in favor for @The Fairy's idea of milestones by points too instead of prizes just by rank.
 

Darielle

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
I would like to see them have more maps before you go into the pit. Maybe 5 maps, with better and better prizes with each succeeding map for completing a path ... and more prizes for completing all paths instead of just one. Then the pit would only be at most a few hours long instead of days long, and I wouldn't be as likely to feel like a mindless zombie during FA pit work.
 

Myne

Well-Known Member
I don’t mind FAs (though they could ease up on the frequency) as I like the team building exercise and it’s mostly the team aspect of the game I enjoy the most.
I am in favor for @The Fairy's idea of milestones by points too instead of prizes just by rank.
I would like to see them have more maps before you go into the pit. Maybe 5 maps, with better and better prizes with each succeeding map for completing a path ... and more prizes for completing all paths instead of just one. Then the pit would only be at most a few hours long instead of days long, and I wouldn't be as likely to feel like a mindless zombie during FA pit work.

ALL of these are EXCELLENT ideas!!!
 

able99

Well-Known Member
I see lack of interest in the FA as mainly a space issue. Whenever a FA starts there may be 1 2 or 3 players who are between chapters and have lots of space to build the lvl1 buildings needed to do well in FA. A few members may be willing to store large parts of their city for the duration, so you can expect to find 5 or 6 members very active in a FA to do most of the heavy lifting. The rest of the FS will try to contribute whatever badges they can make during normal play.
A possible way to generate interest and may be for Everyone to receive 5 temporary provinces for the duration of the FA.
Players will then have the space needed. It could be interesting if rules allows the temporary provinces to be used and way a player wants to use them including putting large factories to generate extra supplies. Make it risky in that everything in the temporary province disappears when the FA is over.
I know It will never happen, too much programing involved and it changes the FA considerably.
Just thought I'd throw the idea out there, to see reaction, and for the record, I'm not sure I'd be in favor of it.
 

able99

Well-Known Member
All of the discussion so far is about how to motivate players to participate by offering better rewards. With enough incentive, I'm sure more players would avtively play in the FA, but they would still need space.
Considering my observation that despite the current rewards, players between chapters, with space available, tend to participate more. It suggests that available space is the real driving force.
My point that offering free temporary space would motivate players is not well developed, and besides the obvious programming issues, I am sure there are other problems with it.
But on the positive side, if players get the opportunity to use some additional space, some may like it so much and decide to purchase some permanently. Its like INNO offering a test drive to sell more space.
I put the idea out for discussion, and noted, as is, I am not completely behind it.
Moho, I don't think you ever played devil's advocate.
I wanted to see others are interested in this radically different approach and see if other input could refine this idea.
 

defiantoneks

Well-Known Member
i would be interested if anyone has considered bracketing the competition based on the FS rank. The high level FS have people with massive resources, and smaller/lesser ranked ones have to compete with that. They know it's impossible to get past say rank 15 because they just dont have the firepower.

Would also wonder if there's something that could be done relative to the number of FS members. If you've fewer than 20, you compete in X bracket. Less than 15, Y bracket, and so forth.

Just looking for ways to even out the imbalance i FS power having to compete against one another, like the event's League system, and like colleges do. No one makes the local div 4 team play against div 1.

ps… I would remove the ability to diamond purchase badges, period. to me that's not competing, it's just buying a trophy. there's enough of that in-game already.
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
ps… I would remove the ability to diamond purchase badges, period. to me that's not competing, it's just buying a trophy. there's enough of that in-game already.
I get what you’re saying, but I would not want to work for free so I am good with players who want to open their wallets for a Glorious Arch of Triumph if it keeps my game free and keeps the lights On around here. It beats a barrage of obtrusive ads as the driving source of revenue. :)

I’ve also been FA mage for several Top 5 groups and if we get stuck, we get stuck. We aren’t flipping badges with diamonds. From my observation, the bigger factor between finishing 1st vs 3rd is prob how many of the 25 members in the FS are both hung ho about FAs and available for flipping the Pit throughout the day. FAs are won in the Pit. For example, if you are stuck in a 9-5 job that doesn’t allow for elf gaming during most of the day, your window to flip the Pit is usually only in the evenings no matter how many badges you’ve made. That’s when everyone else is prob most active to flip too. It also helps if your members are solid, well-rounded players that can also tourney and Spire well. Then you don’t have to craft things in the MA but win enchantments in Spire/tourney. For example, one FS usually gets stuck on witch hats bc everyone is crafting CCs in MA to have enough for Arcane badges. However, the FS where everyone is doing over 5K in tourney doesn’t blink on witch hats bc everyone is well stocked from winning them in tourney. One group is likely to have players that stop doing tourney once the 10th chest is reached. The other group is not deterred by reward chests. It’s easier to just say a group is spending diamonds to get ahead than it is to acknowledge they’re simply putting in the time in other aspects of the game that most people aren’t willing to invest in, like hauling ass in tourneys and completing the Spire. I am sure there are groups spending diamonds, but you can also do well in FAs without spending diamonds.
 

Moho

Chef
Moho, I don't think you ever played devil's advocate.
I did, and it didn't end up well.

Especially on the Internet, one should offer an idea that he or she is ready to defend. Otherwise it will only look like inking. In my opinion, of course. :)
 

Moho

Chef
Fellowship Adventures are my main complaint about Elvenar. I think this is the part where developers have failed the worst. They could have created something amazing and inspiring. Instead, they have only inflicted dismay and frustration to a large proportion of the players.
 

Myne

Well-Known Member
i would be interested if anyone has considered bracketing the competition based on the FS rank. The high level FS have people with massive resources, and smaller/lesser ranked ones have to compete with that. They know it's impossible to get past say rank 15 because they just dont have the firepower.

Would also wonder if there's something that could be done relative to the number of FS members. If you've fewer than 20, you compete in X bracket. Less than 15, Y bracket, and so forth.

Just looking for ways to even out the imbalance i FS power having to compete against one another, like the event's League system, and like colleges do. No one makes the local div 4 team play against div 1.

ps… I would remove the ability to diamond purchase badges, period. to me that's not competing, it's just buying a trophy. there's enough of that in-game already.

I cannot tell you how much I agree with that...well except the diamond purchases. I'm with @crackie on that one.

It suggests that available space is the real driving force.

YEP.
 

Lemon Wren

Well-Known Member
Fellowship Adventures are my main complaint about Elvenar. I think this is the part where developers have failed the worst. They could have created something amazing and inspiring. Instead, they have only inflicted dismay and frustration to a large proportion of the players.

Agreed. I'm always dismayed when I see that a FA is coming up. It's rather demotivating.
 

defiantoneks

Well-Known Member
I get what you’re saying, but I would not want to work for free so I am good with players who want to open their wallets for a Glorious Arch of Triumph if it keeps my game free and keeps the lights On around here. It beats a barrage of obtrusive ads as the driving source of revenue. :)

if you are stuck in a 9-5 job that doesn’t allow for elf gaming during most of the day, your window to flip the Pit is usually only in the evenings no matter how many badges you’ve made.

i can appreciate the POV on the diamonds. And if people want to buy the way through their individual progress, fine by me. I just dont appreciate someone who maybe really didnt build or work for badges, but has cash/diamonds at hand running over people who actually play the FA. Who knows, maybe there isn't that much buying happening.

And i'm a 7-3er… and yes. i can take little breaks but overall cant just sit and play out the pit nonstop. Ideally I would LOVE for FS members to contribute to a pool of badges that can be applied to a node by anyone in the FS as needed. That way we still earn the badges but we dont have to be glued to the game 24/7. Especially when you have more than one city. Even if maybe that "pool" is only in use for the pit, since it moves so fast, and there are no requirements for participation in that level to get the prizes.
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
I just dont appreciate someone who maybe really didnt build or work for badges, but has cash/diamonds at hand running over people who actually play the FA.
I'm "okay" with this only because it's not like anything else in the game is really built on fair competition. The tourney pool has the biggest cities competing against the smallest cities for the same ranks. Players are able to buy their way to higher finishes in events, etc.

However, with something like the tourney, which is also a multi-day event, even if I don't finish anywhere spectacular overall, I still get all the KPs and enchantments for all the provinces I did do, as well as team rewards at the end. Therefore, rank matters little. If there were milestone rewards like @The Fairy suggested, then the model will be more akin to that. You get rewards for what you've done and can ignore the rankings if you want.

Right now, you can win a library cart (KPs), some artifacts you may or may not be able to use, some AWPs, and a bunch of timers in the FA. Considering you can now also win artifacts you may or may not be able to use as well as timers in the Spire, the only differences between these multi-day events are some AWPs and a library cart (KPs). Yet, the Spire gives you :diamond::diamond::diamond::diamond: instead for less time and effort, without also being disruptive to your city! You'll prob also net positive on timers from the Spire, but the timers you get from FA ain't gonna cover how many you blow through to do the event competitively. It's as if the devs don't play their own games only expect you to do the bare minimum of 3 paths for the FA.
 

ajqtrz

Chef
I don't think a discussion can be very productive if participants put forth plans of action they themselves are likely to disapprove of.
I did, and it didn't end up well.

Especially on the Internet, one should offer an idea that he or she is ready to defend. Otherwise it will only look like inking. In my opinion, of course. :)

The distinction here, I think, is between a debate and a discussion. In a debate you do, one assumes, take a side and bring to bear whatever reasons/arguments you have to protect and advance that side. A debate is often something you should prepare for in advance, understanding your position, the other's position, and why you take the stance you take. A discussion is more free flowing and investigative. Usually you put your idea out there knowing that you haven't thought it out and are perfectly willing to come to the conclusion, should things go that way, that you were wrong. Acknowledging and demonstrating your willingness to be convinced otherwise and NOT taking a hard stance are probably a good sign you are wanting a discussion, not a debate.

Having said this, many conversations start out as discussions and sometime rather quickly become debates as sides emerge. In the process you find both sides sometimes changing their primary, secondary and so on, reasons for defending their positions as they continue to explore the issue. So discussions turn to debates and if you are lucky, and if they stay on topic (rather than run out of ideas about why they are right and start attacking the other side using ad hominem fallacies), a debate can really open things up with a lot of learning and growing. Unfortunately, though, once a discussion becomes a debate it usually means people stop really engaging in the subject at hand and spend the time "one-upping" each other as if the fact that I'm an idiot makes my argument that the earth is a sphere impossible to believe and that, instead, that the earth is flat.

I prefer discussions and often suggest to people that they don't make a commitment to an idea until the idea has been well examined by minds willing to do the actual examining because a commitment to an idea should be the last step in a thoughtful position, not the first.

AJ
 
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