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Neighbour hood visits (browser version)

Neighbourhood Visits (Browser) Enhancement

  • IN FAVOR

    Votes: 20 95.2%
  • NOT IN FAVOR

    Votes: 1 4.8%

  • Total voters
    21
  • Poll closed .

Mykan

Well-Known Member
Allow for easier navigation to make neighbourly help visits on the browser. Picture below shows concept:
1584823437032.png


The province overview tab from the world map could be used and an additional tab added for neighbours. A list of neighbours could then be shown with a visit icon similar to fellowships. Exact information on the tab can vary, for absolute simplicity player name and visit icon is enough. For more complexity the information shown would be helpful.

Towns that are gold mines would likely be excluded from the list, these would continue to be collected in the normal fashion. This however could changed based on coding complexities.

Current issue
For some time now the process of providing help has been improving, initially with mobile version and more recently on browser for fellowships. Neighborhood visits are still on the older style of visits and is very cumbersome. Having quick visits from notifications helps but only for those who visit you and are still in the list. Discrepancy in ease of world map visits between browser and mobile.

Benefits
  • Reduces clicks
  • Simplified visits and all the benefits that have come with them (easier to give desired help, not playing hide and seek in a town)
  • Less resource intensive for computers by having faster visits then loading every town, especially larger ones
  • Easy to tell how many neighbours you have
  • Can still visit neighbours to explore town - chapter and score can help in deciding which towns to visit and explore
  • Might reduce complaints about notification system, at least from browsers

Downsides
  • Developer time - is more then a simple UI fix. Pulling neighbour information could be complex.
  • Might be considered easier than mobile version
  • Have to help a town before visiting it if using the icons (can still visit using name and selecting visit)
 
Last edited:

DeletedUser18111

Guest
I am completely for this suggestion! I think having a decent visitation process on the browser version is long overdue! I like to log on the browser and chat with my fellowship, I actually visit them more on the browser now with the new visitation for fellowship members than I do on mobile so I think expanding that ability to your neighbors will be wonderful. Will for sure reduce clicks and will help to address the complaints about visits notifications being overpowered by other notifications.

Will it be better if ttheres a seperate button section just for that though? Like here? This way it is seperate from the scouts? Or even after the relic button.
1584822128047.png



+1
 

DeletedUser2870

Guest
Lovely idea!
Especially since the notifications aren't always a help, if one has a lot of trades not all visits will be shown anymore, so it often needs to be done by the map.
 

Mykan

Well-Known Member
Will it be better if ttheres a seperate button section just for that though? Like here? This way it is seperate from the scouts? Or even after the relic button.
1584822128047.png
I had considered that but felt reusing the existing aspects would be simpler. Don't think it is too much of a stretch for neighbours on the world map to be within the province overview as they are provinces on the world map, just town provinces :)
 

alainemk

Active Member
One plus vote cast :) With the new, faster visiting process I would visit more neighbors through a tab like this. @Mykan are you proposing that current Neighborly visits be taken out of the Notification screen also? I see you mentioned the notification tab but wasn't clear if this screen was intended to include the notification of visits as well as providing a central location to visit others.
 
Last edited:

Yogi Dave

Well-Known Member
+1 This seems like the best concept possible for world map visits.

Downsides
  • Developer time - is more then a simple UI fix. Pulling neighbour information could be complex.
  • Might be considered easier than mobile version
  • Have to help a town before visiting it if using the icons (can still visit using name and selecting visit)
I have some comments on the downsides.
  • Developer time: While it is more that a simple UI fix, it might be easier than coding the method used on mobile.
  • Might be considered easier than mobile version: Why is this a downside? Isn't easier a good thing? Are you seeing it as being a war between the mobile and browser developers? I know you aren't. I just can't for the life of me see why this is a downside.
  • Have to help … I don't understand. This sounds more like a desired requirement than a downside. Regardless of anything, the interface has to build the list, just as it builds the map. Players may be added to your area that you don't know about. They may also be moved from your area or deleted. In the first case, you would have to seek out and add these players. In the second, your list gets smaller.
You didn't mention anything about 'gold mines' I presume they would also be in the list, but collection would only be gold. The icon could be a coin for them. Some cities end up in the wastelands and need those gold mines. I know, I've been there. So they need to be in the list.
 

AtaguS

Well-Known Member
It would just be a lot simpler to give us the world map version for visiting that the mobile version has. Sure, you still have to scroll around the map, but you do not have to enter any cities to help.
Do you mean simpler from a coding perspective? Ok, if that's the case. But if it's the same amount of work I would still prefer the list idea. The mobile version is great for touch screens but not sure how well it will translate to a mouse.
 

Mykan

Well-Known Member
One plus vote cast :) With the new, faster visiting process I would visit more neighbors through a tab like this. @Mykan are you proposing that current Neighborly visits be taken out of the Notification screen also? I see you mentioned the notification tab but wasn't clear if this screen was intended to include the notification of visits as well as providing a central location to visit others.
I was not proposing a change to the notifications, that would stay as is. The potential reduction in complaints is because it becomes less releveant to spot visits in notifications unless you want a specific time or to see who boosted what. But for those players just wanting to visit people who visited them they are going to go to the gold hands in the proposed screens. So for some people notifications become less relevant, mostly useful for trades and FA's and such. While for others the issue of clutter remains.

It would just be a lot simpler to give us the world map version for visiting that the mobile version has. Sure, you still have to scroll around the map, but you do not have to enter any cities to help.

To my understanding the mobile version has a different code base so to code their version to browser is not a copy/paste but a complete re-write. This proposal uses different existing coding elements from the browser version and personally creates an easier visit interface.
 

Yogi Dave

Well-Known Member
It would just be a lot simpler to give us the world map version for visiting that the mobile version has.
If you mean simpler as a coding task, I don't see how that can be determined out here. It's an entirely different set of programmers working with a different code set. Concepts may flow from one to the other, but not the code. If which cities are able to be visited is known in the browser, putting that info into a table form that has already used in a couple of places may not be a heavy coding task. It might only be accessing different database tables. Currently, the only interface to a neighbor's city in the browser is to click on it which loads it, unlike mobile which has had a couple of buttons on each city when I first looked at it. So changing that interface may be more difficult than creating a list dialog. Of course, the opposite may be true. It's impossible to determine from the outside which is the more difficult or the most desired by the devs if they are about the same level of work.
 

Ashrem

Well-Known Member
I'm not averse to the idea, but it does have the danger of injecting a massive amount of coin into the economy, and I think it is probably worth seeing how the new inactive-player process plays out first. It might be that simply adding a few more pages to the notifications will do most of the work, without making help so trivial that it becomes a no-brainer.
 

michmarc

Well-Known Member
It seems like using essentially the same code that they have for the FS list in the world map would be simplest. I don't see any need to make the NH go away from the notification area but for those (like me) that give NH to everyone, having a list to run down instead of having to switch to mobile just to collect would be grand.
 

Mykan

Well-Known Member
I have some comments on the downsides.
  • Developer time: While it is more that a simple UI fix, it might be easier than coding the method used on mobile.
  • Might be considered easier than mobile version: Why is this a downside? Isn't easier a good thing? Are you seeing it as being a war between the mobile and browser developers? I know you aren't. I just can't for the life of me see why this is a downside.
  • Have to help … I don't understand. This sounds more like a desired requirement than a downside. Regardless of anything, the interface has to build the list, just as it builds the map. Players may be added to your area that you don't know about. They may also be moved from your area or deleted. In the first case, you would have to seek out and add these players. In the second, your list gets smaller.
You didn't mention anything about 'gold mines' I presume they would also be in the list, but collection would only be gold. The icon could be a coin for them. Some cities end up in the wastelands and need those gold mines. I know, I've been there. So they need to be in the list.
  • Agreed but only they can determine the time and effort, but it is more then tweaking a UI or fixing a spelling error.
  • The downside for the mobile is really to do with players and our love to gripe. Right now browser users want mobile visits cause it is easier. If it flips the other way there could be complaints/pressure from mobile users for the same. Inno is pretty good at filtering out the noise but there could be noise from it.
  • The have to help is an extra click (if only using buttons). Some people might not want to help someone, currently not forced to help.
The gold mines is a good pick-up I had missed this. Without knowing the technical coding I suppose my thought would be to skip goldmines, They are easy enough from world map if someone wants them and there are other game features that should limit/reduce their qty and duration. Of course if they are as simple a coding exercise as a town name then why not, but let's assume it is not for this excersise.

@Ashrem I think the new-inactive player process will have less impact on this than might be expected. I don't think this improvement needs a wait and see for that one, a couple of reasons for this:
  • Human nature - while some people will visit more, the initial burst will reduce to a new normal. Already seen this with the browser visits, same happened when mobile visits happened. Even with simplified visits people still often only visit people who visit them. Anyone taking the time to visit everyone will continue to do so regardless unless they get bored/tired of it.
  • Gold coins are dependent on the person visiting so they can farm these right now if they choose. More active neighbours has no impact on this. It will however impact the supply situation as more will be available from returning help
  • The game has mechanics to deal with excess coins and supplies with limited or diminishing returns - KP buying and wholesaler
 

Ashrem

Well-Known Member
Yes, I'd say that since there is no social aspect to gold mines, there is no reason to make an effort to make them easier. On the other hand, it's possible it's more work to exclude them than to include everything, so it would have to be a dev call, so we'd probably want to mention it under cons as a potential coding issue.
 

Ashrem

Well-Known Member
  • I think the new-inactive player process will have less impact on this than might be expected. I don't think this improvement needs a wait and see for that one, a couple of reasons for this:
  • Human nature - while some people will visit more, the initial burst will reduce to a new normal. Already seen this with the browser visits, same happened when mobile visits happened. Even with simplified visits people still often only visit people who visit them. Anyone taking the time to visit everyone will continue to do so regardless unless they get bored/tired of it.
  • Gold coins are dependent on the person visiting so they can farm these right now if they choose. More active neighbours has no impact on this. It will however impact the supply situation as more will be available from returning help
  • The game has mechanics to deal with excess coins and supplies with limited or diminishing returns - KP buying and wholesaler
We disagree about the effects of removing inactive players. I expect ti to be a game-changer.

Right now, visiting anyone who hasn't visited you recently takes 10-20 seconds if you are willing/able to use mobile. this makes it 1-2 seconds no matter where you are.

Buying from the wholesaler is used by a small number of people because getting the coins is tedious. If players can visit 30-50 neighbours per minute, that's a significant bump in coins and supplies and extra data flowing to and from the servers. There are over a million active cities. Pushing them all closer together and let them all visit anyone they've discovered in two or three minutes a day is a not trivial change. I think you are glossing over something that the developers can't afford to gloss over.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
We disagree about the effects of removing inactive players. I expect ti to be a game-changer.

Right now, visiting anyone who hasn't visited you recently takes 10-20 seconds if you are willing/able to use mobile. this makes it 1-2 seconds no matter where you are.

Buying from the wholesaler is used by a small number of people because getting the coins is tedious. If players can visit 30-50 neighbours per minute, that's a significant bump in coins and supplies and extra data flowing to and from the servers. There are over a million active cities. Pushing them all closer together and let them all visit anyone they've discovered in two or three minutes a day is a not trivial change. I think you are glossing over something that the developers can't afford to gloss over.
Are you guessing a million active cities total for all servers in the US, or perhaps worldwide? Because I just went and looked at Arendyll, the first US server, and it only lists 60,483 players on the server. And players 57,314 to 60,483 all have a score of zero. Last time I looked through all my neighbors, I found about 25% active when I did this many months ago, and some of them have quit since then. 25% of 60k is only 15k active cities. Even if you are generous and up it to 35% active, you are still only looking at about 21k active cities.

A couple of other server numbers that I can check without making a new city. Sinya Arda lists 40,704 players and Felydral lists 49,242 players. Just looking at these numbers makes me think we are all way overestimating the number of US players that this game has. Even with 8 servers now, and considering all the players who only play on one server, there is couldn't be more than 150-200k unique player accounts on the US servers. And even if we use an average of 30% across the servers, maybe 50-60k active players in the US.

And on a side note, I think this removing the inactive and try to move the active closer together will have the problem of a lot of the players having the city to not be allowed to be moved. I think a lot of us are going to end up in a wasteland shortly after this is all put into effect.