Neighbour hood visits (browser version)

[Pheryll]

I'm assuming you read something other than "programmer resources," because your response has nothing to do with programmer time and energy?

No, I read "we have no idea what the game will look like after the change to inactive cities has been implemented for two or four months," which I find to be a very weak argument.

 

[Pheryll]

• What do you mean by 'no idea what the game will look like'? Won't people just be moved so they are closer to other active people or something similar to that? You've mentioned this several times and I'm sorry but I can't make any sense of this. The map will still look the same. I can't imagine how that could change since it is so basic in boosted good selection for a city and distribution of provinces. I must be missing something because you seem to think things will be different enough that it's a waste of the devs time to even look at the idea.

You can find Ashrem's argument here (bolding added).

If players can visit 30-50 neighbours per minute, that's a significant bump in coins and supplies and extra data flowing to and from the servers. There are over a million active cities. Pushing them all closer together and let them all visit anyone they've discovered in two or three minutes a day is a not trivial change. I think you are glossing over something that the developers can't afford to gloss over.

 

[Yogi Dave]

ou can find Ashrem's argument here (bolding added).

Thanks. I do remember reading that now. While @Ashrem's comment makes sense and the devs need to think of the consequences, it doesn't seem like a good reason to not present the idea. Perhaps the influx of coins should have been mentioned in the Cons section of the post, but it seems like @Xelenia has said once voting begins, the initial post should not be changed.

 

[Ashrem]

• Just because this is forwarded doesn't mean it will be accepted and even if it is, it doesn't mean they are going to start coding immediately. So, I don't see how presenting them with the idea affects programming resources.

Whether it's accepted or not, they have to spend time deciding if they will accept it. Even if it's only long enough to read it and throw it out. My personal opinion is that it shouldn't be forwarded until we know what the game looks like .

• What do you mean by 'no idea what the game will look like'? (snip). The map will still look the same. I can't imagine how that could change

The game and the map are not the same thing. We don't know how much activity we will have once we are surrounded by dozens or hundreds of people actively playing instead of 5% active and 95% abandoned.

• Having this presented to the devs before this inactive city thing occurs may influence how that is implemented, even if coding has begun on it. It also may make this whole idea moot. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be presented to them as an option.

I think the developers are perfectly capable of deciding what to do or not do. That doesn't change my opinion that presenting the idea to them at all is a waste of their time.

No, I read "we have no idea what the game will look like after the change to inactive cities has been implemented for two or four months," which I find to be a very weak argument.

Okay, you think my argument is week, but what you said is "I do not see a significant increase to the loading of cities by the proposed method, and pulling a presorted list of culture buildings requires a whole lot less processing. " which had nothing to do with what you were quoting, and the quote was just filler? I talked about potential for drain on server resources another day. I didn't mention it at all in the post you quoted and didn't offer it as a reason I'm voting against the idea. Countering a position with an argument that has nothing at all to do with that position is pretty messed up logic.


I'm not asking someone to cancel the poll. I'm just saying the primary reason I'm voting against it. People could stand to be a little less defensive.

 

[Pheryll]

Okay, you think my argument is week, but what you said is "I do not see a significant increase to the loading of cities by the proposed method, and pulling a presorted list of culture buildings requires a whole lot less processing. " which had nothing to do with what you were quoting, and the quote was just filler?

I compared full visits to quick visits. Mykan's proposal would largely increase the number of quick visits, while having little increase on the number of full visits (the number of full visits might also decrease). It is the full visits that are the major hogs of the data exchange; quick visits are much simpler to handle. You have surmised a visiting increase when the cities brought closer together (which is why you have mentioned waiting two or four months). I am saying that data-wise, the quick visits are a very small exchange compared to city loading and everything that goes with it.

 

[Ashrem]

I compared full visits to quick visits. Mykan's proposal would largely increase the number of quick visits, while having little increase on the number of full visits (the number of full visits might also decrease). It is the full visits that are the major hogs of the data exchange; quick visits are much simpler to handle. You have surmised a visiting increase when the cities brought closer together (which is why you have mentioned waiting two or four months). I am saying that data-wise, the quick visits are a very small exchange compared to city loading and everything that goes with it.

I wish you'd read what I'm saying, instead of what you think I'm saying. I'm not talking about data at all. I'm talking about the developers spending time on deciding whether the idea is worth while.

The more ideas we send them that get rejected, the easier it is for them ignore the others. Maybe it's a perfectly good idea, and will still be very useful even after the changes to inactive cities. I don't feel like it's worth sending before that happens. The voters will decide.

 

[Yogi Dave]

People could stand to be a little less defensive.

I don't believe I was being defensive. I was just trying to understand the reason behind your statement that it's a waste of programmer resources. As a developer, I have no problem reading or listening to a customer's suggestions as long as it doesn't become bogged down in endless meeting about it or they try to force it on me. So, having them read the initial post (I don't think they are required to read the entire thread) doesn't not seem like it takes as much time away from them as you seem to. So, we disagree, but now I understand your reasoning.

I think the developers are perfectly capable of deciding what to do or not do. That doesn't change my opinion that presenting the idea to them at all is a waste of their time.

Hmmm. The whole purpose of Ideas and Suggestions is to give the devs a user's view of ways to change the game or what's the point of anything in this section? Yes, they are capable of deciding what to do with the idea once they have it. I was not trying to change your opinion.

Anyway, this seems to be drifting away from the subject of the thread and I think I understand your position now. Thanks.

 

[Xelenia]

(I don't think they are required to read the entire thread)

They do not read the thread. There is a reason I emphasize making the initial post as presentable as possible ^.~ They need the name of the idea, a summary (detail), pros of it, and cons of it. Without those, there is nothing.

 

[Sir Squirrel]

I like the Idea and voted yes. I think the devs likely have already been talking about a way to make Neighbour visits easier for the browser as it has been suggested more then a few times before this. Also they have already implemented a quick neighbour collect on mobile so I don't think they would have done that if they foreseen any balancing issues from players doing more visits. I actually think they would like to see more visits that were not as demanding on the servers and newer players might actually stop thinking they are alone in the game if more neighbours visited them because of visits being easier. This idea being fairly easy (I would think) to implement and being very well presented I think is enough for me to vote that it should go to the Devs for them to at least look at. I also don't think I should have to play Elvenar on my PC and mobile to have access to quick visits.

 

[Mykan]

Perhaps the influx of coins should have been mentioned in the Cons section of the post, but it seems like @Xelenia has said once voting begins, the initial post should not be changed.

I didn't add it as a con as I do not see it as a con. The capacity to get coins now and if the idea is put in place does not change, it is still a function of a persons scouting. The game has existing mechanisms for excess coins should such a thing occur.

Plus when you look across game versions, mobile verse browser, they have a fast visit option for mobile which is a growing player base (if not major base). So its hard to argue they see this as a problem when they have an easy feature already in place on the other platform.

 

[Deleted User - 4262106]

+1

 

[Xelenia]

Hello,

I have forwarded this concept due to the overwhelming result and the fact it is set to finish this week. Great job on voting, and I hope it sparks their creativity!

Xelenia

 

[Dominionofgod]

Allow for easier navigation to make neighbourly help visits on the browser. Picture below shows concept:
View attachment 7319

The province overview tab from the world map could be used and an additional tab added for neighbours. A list of neighbours could then be shown with a visit icon similar to fellowships. Exact information on the tab can vary, for absolute simplicity player name and visit icon is enough. For more complexity the information shown would be helpful.

Towns that are gold mines would likely be excluded from the list, these would continue to be collected in the normal fashion. This however could changed based on coding complexities.

Current issue
For some time now the process of providing help has been improving, initially with mobile version and more recently on browser for fellowships. Neighborhood visits are still on the older style of visits and is very cumbersome. Having quick visits from notifications helps but only for those who visit you and are still in the list. Discrepancy in ease of world map visits between browser and mobile.

Benefits

• Reduces clicks
• Simplified visits and all the benefits that have come with them (easier to give desired help, not playing hide and seek in a town)
• Less resource intensive for computers by having faster visits then loading every town, especially larger ones
• Easy to tell how many neighbours you have
• Can still visit neighbours to explore town - chapter and score can help in deciding which towns to visit and explore
• Might reduce complaints about notification system, at least from browsers

Downsides

• Developer time - is more then a simple UI fix. Pulling neighbour information could be complex.
• Might be considered easier than mobile version
• Have to help a town before visiting it if using the icons (can still visit using name and selecting visit)

This is pretty similar to the idea iv been thinking the last few weeks as well.
The mobiles current version of neighborly visits is better then the browsers.... buts its not the best.
Meanwhile the new version for neighborly help within the FS is incredible. That FS list.. you can go right down the list of names. Be done in a minute or two, depending on how much time you spend checking what each person wants. A really effective system.

So it would make sense to find some way to use that great system for actual neighbors on the world map. Have a window some where that comes up with all your explored neighbors. Then use the very same system as they used for the FS neighborly help window.

A good implment of this style would greatly increase the lieklyhood of ppl actually visiting all there neighbors. Because right now, it simply takes way to long. Even for someone as active as me, i usually dont bother. Ill just hit the ppl in my notifications list. Every once in a while ill do them all just to refresh it. But its irritating as hell. (Also because the mobile game on my phone crashes on the world map constantly.)

So i would love to see there FS Neighborly help system expanded to the actual neighbors in some manner.

 

[Xelenia]

Hello Everyone,

I just wanted to let you know I have put out a reminder in regard to several forwarded ideas, this included. Soon as I hear something, I will update here accordingly.

You have not been forgotten!

 

[Xelenia]

Hello @Mykan ,

These particular suggestions has been forwarded several times to the development team, but unfortunately no feedback still. I will give this one last push and if no feedback, I will have to, unfortunately, archive the concept.

Xelenia

 

[BrinDarby]

Awesome Idea and presentation...

I diasagree that finding neighbors is complex, and here's the fix.
As a player discovers a city ( 1st time ), that city/player is logg'd into a array's variable.... the counter is increased by1,
and that player could even appear in the order they were discovered because they are add'd as the player
progresses... or potentially sorted by Chapter or Rank.... but they are add'd as the player progresses, thus
there is no CPU time need'd to then later "Pull" that list. ( like from sourounding Hexagons of players )

If everything else is the same code wise that can be cloned from the way FSs do it, then all thats left
is the list of discovered..... and that fix , is case closed, right there. Wouldn't the current code work the
same depending on 2 lists....... FS list , Neighbors list ????? isnt everything else cloneable (code ) ???
BrinD

Edit: there is potential to have "neighbors visited me, I haven't scouted to yet"

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Here is the Beta version of this suggestion, originally posted back in Dec of last year. Marindor just posted on it tonight that this idea has already been forwarded, maybe because of this thread.

https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/neighbours-listed-in-table-form.14343/#post-86874

 

[Yogi Dave]

Here is the Beta version of this suggestion, originally posted back in Dec of last year. Marindor just posted on it tonight that this idea has already been forwarded, maybe because of this thread.

Ha! Live rocks. Hopefully, this means that Xelenia's last push to the devs has paid off and we may get some feedback this millennium.

 

[Xelenia]

Good Morning @Mykan ,

I have finally received the long-awaited feedback for this suggestion. Overall, the developers really love the concept (cannot say I am surprised), and find the suggestion quite reasonable and time-worthy to see how it will work with the UI/UX.

This is not a guarantee that it will be implemented anytime soon, but it does make sense for them to take this path.

Xelenia