New Spire of Eternity rewards - discussion thread

[Khal Dine]

Within the Spire of Eternal Fragments, the percentages of Spell Fragments offered as rewards is "heavy" in comparison to any other type. Next in line is diamonds, while initially may seem like a good reward, but not as rewarding or overall useful in the long term. Regardless of personal setup or actual use... the numbers don't lie.

 

[Khal Dine]

My apologies...i provided incorrect information regarding the diamonds. Try not to crucify me. Time boosts are next in line i believe and not diamonds, when looking at reward percentages across the entire Spire of Fragments

 

[samidodamage]

the numbers don't lie.

Absolutely correct. See this link for the actual numbers on Spell Fragments/week from Spire chest rewards:
Spell Fragments
I am swimming in Spell Fragments, so I also view them as a pretty useless reward for me personally. I've upped my crafting to trying to turn over the Mystery Object 3+ times/wk (so I craft some stuff just for the Vision Vapors) and I still have 650K spell fragments in one city and 796K in the other; both cities have a dozen or more pages of bldgs in summonings that will never be placed, but I don't disenchant them unless for an event quest. (Because: why would I?)
Those numbers are not the result of fragments from the chests; they're the result of the Library sets. In the city with just under 800K SF's, I get 31,500 spell fragments/week from my sets. The most I could get from the Spire if I got them 100% of the time when offered would be 11,400/wk.

diamonds, while initially may seem like a good reward, but not as rewarding or overall useful in the long term.

If you're only looking at one individual chest and the diamond rewards, maybe. Over time, the diamond rewards are significant:
I place those sets for the CC's that I need to craft as much as I do. I craft as much as I do for the diamonds. Every other Mystery Object has a chance at 500 diamonds. I won 2K diamonds from the Mystery Object just in the week of the FA since I was crafting everything every cycle for the residue badges in both cities. That's a bit too much to maintain with CC's on a regular basis, so I'm skipping some recipes when there's no FA. I also get 400 diamonds/wk from Spire FS bubbles (one city is Silver Spire FS; the other is Gold Spire FS). Plus any other diamonds I win from the chest rewards. If the trade-off for having too many spell fragments is diamonds, my fragment inventory will just have to keep growing.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

As @CrazyWizard showed in another thread, the spell fragments gained from completing the entire spire are about 1680 per day on average which is not even enough to craft a single recipe every rotation.
Excess spell fragments only exist because you either don't craft much at all or you have moonstone sets.

Not another thread just a few posts ago
https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index....y-rewards-discussion-thread.26239/post-203734

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

If you're only looking at one individual chest and the diamond rewards, maybe. Over time, the diamond rewards are significant:
I place those sets for the CC's that I need to craft as much as I do. I craft as much as I do for the diamonds. Every other Mystery Object has a chance at 500 diamonds. I won 2K diamonds from the Mystery Object just in the week of the FA since I was crafting everything every cycle for the residue badges in both cities. That's a bit too much to maintain with CC's on a regular basis, so I'm skipping some recipes when there's no FA. I also get 400 diamonds/wk from Spire FS bubbles (one city is Silver Spire FS; the other is Gold Spire FS). Plus any other diamonds I win from the chest rewards. If the trade-off for having too many spell fragments is diamonds, my fragment inventory will just have to keep growing.

If you reach the top and your guild reaches gold you get a little over 500 diamonds a week on average from the spire alone.
If you are the ultimate cheapskate and willing to put in the effort on the US world you can gather 4000+ diamonds a week from the spire alone.

That way you can unlock pretty much everything in the game for free in a very short time.

So I must always laugh when people complain about how hard it is to gain gain diamonds.

I get between ~2000 diamonds a week, and where I play there are only 2 worlds.
If you want the diamond gains in this game are huge.

 

[Veesviewpoint]

Here's how you run spire

1- Save all the goods you can save this week for those impossible fights with 3 waves of 5 different units, Later chapters will need to save tons of mana and seed and orcs on top, just in case, cuz that one encounter will deplete your whole stash
2- Put dwarven armorer in city
3- craft pet food to feed phoenix
4- use time boosts to recruit more troops

Run spire, win some orbs or fragments to craft more pet food, win some time boosts to run the spire in one day before phoenix effect runs out, use remainder of timers to recruit the troops you lost, win another dwarven armorer so you can do spire the week after.
Friday afternoon, collect 50, 125 or 250 diamonds depending on how active or lazy you and your fellowship are.

Sunday: re-read this and do it all over again!

Oh but wait... you're a new player, and you're trying to build up the phoenix, so in fact you cant feed it, so you cant fight, so you cant win the artifacts to make your phoenix better.... what a crock. You need to go and beg your FS for lopsided trades for a full 6 weeks so you can do the whole thing... Damn who thought of this, it's brilliant!

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

Here's how you run spire

1- Save all the goods you can save this week for those impossible fights with 3 waves of 5 different units, Later chapters will need to save tons of mana and seed and orcs on top, just in case, cuz that one encounter will deplete your whole stash
2- Put dwarven armorer in city
3- craft pet food to feed phoenix
4- use time boosts to recruit more troops

Run spire, win some orbs or fragments to craft more pet food, win some time boosts to run the spire in one day before phoenix effect runs out, use remainder of timers to recruit the troops you lost, win another dwarven armorer so you can do spire the week after.
Friday afternoon, collect 50, 125 or 250 diamonds depending on how active or lazy you and your fellowship are.

Sunday: re-read this and do it all over again!

Oh but wait... you're a new player, and you're trying to build up the phoenix, so in fact you cant feed it, so you cant fight, so you cant win the artifacts to make your phoenix better.... what a crock. You need to go and beg your FS for lopsided trades for a full 6 weeks so you can do the whole thing... Damn who thought of this, it's brilliant!

If you are in that stage of the game, hell I would not mind helping you out.
For a big player that stuff you need... it's peanuts.
Giving a player in that stage some peanuts to help advance the guild is an easy choice.

The game is here to help eachother, it's not a free4all me against everyone else game.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Not another thread just a few posts ago

LoL oops. Between En, Beta, and US I forget where we are sometimes

 

[Veesviewpoint]

You are most kind Crazy Wizard...been in the game since 2018 with a few breaks due to family/job care.
My great desire remains being able to come to the Forum and glean the info so needed for myself and/smaller/growing fellowships.
Hence, I usually am the conduit of info I glean from here and share with others.

Not meaning to be unkind myself...it's usually late in the pm when I can do my "research" on the Forum...and truthfully, note 2 things:
1. So many of you are much further along in 1 or multiple cities...and that is good since you relay awesome information. However, many, often don't realize how far removed initial opinions/instructions come across as aggressive/dismissive to those in younger chapters.
2. Sometimes...it gets so edgy...that it does turn away many seeking to learn the game and do the work...and that is so disappointing.

After following you all for so long...I realize and respect that there is the balance we all seek to maintain. And so, I continue to come back and seek your advice, ratios etc. etc. Love, love having number crunchers around! Thanks so much for your kind insight. vees

 

[Nectar of the Gods]

those changes were made on there own accord, not because people asked for it.

I remember people asking for the workshops to have the ability to make the same type of build easily without clicking every workshop to set it. And I remember many conversations on how to improve the FA badge collection. Suggestions from users matter.

Thousands a day? lets get real numbers and see how not true that is.

Look. I don't care about what the percentages say. That doesn't matter when every single one of the chests that contain spell fragments give spell fragments despite the percentages. Put 100% in those fields and see what that adds up to in spell fragments. Add that up instead of trying to disprove what I say by giving percentage chances that do not match the reality of what I am actually receiving in my city. I gave the amount of spell fragments I had received on the very first day of this specific Spire round. I still had one waypoint to finish before I made it to the Gateway boss and I already had 4,700 spell fragments. That's thousands a day. Your percentages do not match the reality I'm living.

There are 7 days n a week
11400/7 = 1628 spellfragments a day

There are, however, not 7 days in the Spire so even your percentage numbers are off. I was not referring to any time frame of "days" other than the days in the Spire.

So lets stop the stupid claims that the spire gives to much spell fragments.

There is nothing "stupid" about the claim and I am not the only person playing Elvenar who holds this opinion. Spell fragments are overdone. Period. Removing them from the higher levels of the Spire would still leave thousands possible to win on the first level. That should be enough for those who need more spell fragments, don't you think?

 

[Darielle]

If you reach the top and your guild reaches gold you get a little over 500 diamonds a week on average from the spire alone.
If you are the ultimate cheapskate and willing to put in the effort on the US world you can gather 4000+ diamonds a week from the spire alone.

That way you can unlock pretty much everything in the game for free in a very short time.

I get between ~2000 diamonds a week, and where I play there are only 2 worlds.
If you want the diamond gains in this game are huge.

How is it possible to get an "average" of 500 diamonds per week with a gold team? You get 275 from making it to gold. You'd have to get at least 225 in chests "on average" and that seems crazy high to me. I make gold almost every week, but I average around 300-325, including the diamonds I win from chests, on occasion. I consider 325 a week to be a very good week, and if I win 150 from one chest, making my top score in the spire 425-450, that is an "incredible" week for me ... not an average week for diamonds.

I'm not understanding your math, I guess. How do you manage to get 2000 diamonds a week in 2 worlds?

 

[StinkMan]

What they should do with the Moonstone Sets is make their goods production dependent on the player's boosts, like they do with so many other event buildings. And what about Bear Artifacts? Mebbe make a generic artifact that works for any evolving building. All of my Phoenixes are fully evolved, so the only thing these artifacts are "good" for is crafting fodder. Which I don't need cuz i finish the spire every week. So my vote is a hearty BOO.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Your percentages do not match the reality I'm living.

That's not how statistics work.
Rock-Paper-Scissors is basically a 50/50 game and completely fair.
Just because you have a bad streak and lose 6 times in a row doesn't mean the rules should be changed.

I'm not understanding your math, I guess. How do you manage to get 2000 diamonds a week in 2 worlds?

I'm guessing from all spire sources like genies and Mystical objects. My numbers reflect @CrazyWizard 's

 

[hvariidh gwendrot]

i like spire for what it is, i use the fragments i like the DA and Genies and magic bldgs are good, a giant bee that gives 10% PP spell every 2 days very cool .. diamonds are good .. i have 2 tiny cities that get the snot beat out of them, but then for most of those i can negotiate .. the mid cities have won a few artifacts which is very groovy as the fire phoenix is a massive help .. i train troops to fight .. i make goods to use, the different sized cities do the same thing but with different capabilities .. it's a process

 

[Lelanya]

Too bad they've benched the moonstone library, it helps a ton with catalyst, standard and sentient goods. When you reach the chapters where mana and seeds are needed it makes a HUGE difference. I will value my moonstone library sets and its components even more now. The bird is a waste of space to be honest, even if you fight a lot, which I do. What else do they do anyway? Sorry for my ignorance but the space is not worth having the birds.
Spire is expensive, too many goods and waaaay too many troops. I do not even attempt to finish it any more. I s not worth getting mostly spell fragments for the many diamonds, troops or goods that I have spent.
Portal profits are in the magic academy so Spire in not a necessity as much.

Ok
What level was your bird? I find mine absolutely necessary, I wouldn't do without it. Otherwise, yes, the Spire is expensive.
Chances are pretty good the Library will return, I nearly begged Marindor (Beta's CM) for a quick fix, but the silence on this issue is deafening.
You can't win anything good if you don't try, try again.

 

[Dew Spinner]

The Library set is already back in the Spire, in Beta, unchanged. They were busy tinkering with the Main Hall.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

That's not how statistics work.
Rock-Paper-Scissors is basically a 50/50 game and completely fair.
Just because you have a bad streak and lose 6 times in a row doesn't mean the rules should be changed.

I'm guessing from all spire sources like genies and Mystical objects. My numbers reflect @CrazyWizard 's

4 genies and 4 wishing wells on Arendyll, 2 genies on Winyandor.
Mad crafting on winyandor (near everything when it has a decent CC vs VV ratio.
500+ diamonds on averyage from spire on Arendyll, 500+ from spire on winyandor.

How is it possible to get an "average" of 500 diamonds per week with a gold team? You get 275 from making it to gold. You'd have to get at least 225 in chests "on average" and that seems crazy high to me. I make gold almost every week, but I average around 300-325, including the diamonds I win from chests, on occasion. I consider 325 a week to be a very good week, and if I win 150 from one chest, making my top score in the spire 425-450, that is an "incredible" week for me ... not an average week for diamonds.

I'm not understanding your math, I guess. How do you manage to get 2000 diamonds a week in 2 worlds?

I posted this a when the diamonds where changed here:
https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index....imer-and-reward-adjustments.22293/post-172297

It's a little less then I remembered, I hasd to look it up. most likely because at the end from 2 worlds I get 550 diamonds so 500 is ingrained in my brain now.
So the spire gives on average about 434 diamonds a week per world you play at.

Those random rolls individually are random, but as you play the spire week in and week out totals average, there will be weeks with a lot more and weeks with a bit less. in the end it should average to ~434

But with all the sources of diamonds these day's you can really get a bucketload of them for free, especially on servers with an insane amount of world as each one of them could potentially be a diamond farm for your main world. and if you build them well, they have a very low maintenance footprint as well (read little effort big gain)

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

Look. I don't care about what the percentages say. That doesn't matter when every single one of the chests that contain spell fragments give spell fragments despite the percentages. Put 100% in those fields and see what that adds up to in spell fragments. Add that up instead of trying to disprove what I say by giving percentage chances that do not match the reality of what I am actually receiving in my city. I gave the amount of spell fragments I had received on the very first day of this specific Spire round. I still had one waypoint to finish before I made it to the Gateway boss and I already had 4,700 spell fragments. That's thousands a day. Your percentages do not match the reality I'm living.

So if you roll on a d6 6 times 6 in a row, then the average becomes 6 for eternity?
Thats now how RNG works, you cannot look at an individual result or a limited set when it favors your argument and throw out everything else.
RNG means there will be times you beat the odds and get more, and there will be times when you lose the odds and get less.
But eventually you get closer and closer to the average result, which is what I posted.

Ingnoring basic math to favor your argument is a very weak statement.

There are, however, not 7 days in the Spire so even your percentage numbers are off. I was not referring to any time frame of "days" other than the days in the Spire.

There is only 1 single spire in a week, so you have to use those gained fragments to survive for a week, you cannot say I only care about those 5 days the spire is active. what about the other 2 days, no spire no ability to craft?
It's about does the spire give to much fragments, and for that you need to set of the gains vs the period to use. that period is 1 spire a week for 1 week of crafting.
The answer to that is a clear NO, the spire does not give too many fragments.

There is nothing "stupid" about the claim and I am not the only person playing Elvenar who holds this opinion. Spell fragments are overdone. Period. Removing them from the higher levels of the Spire would still leave thousands possible to win on the first level. That should be enough for those who need more spell fragments, don't you think?

It's the car mechanic issue. you bring you car to your dealer for new filters, spark plugs and oil.
Now the engine explodes so it's the car mechanics foult as he was the last one to touch the engine.

In reality is was a faulty cam shaft. and unrelated to the oil, filter and spark plug change.

What I tried to show you is that the issue is not the spire but somewhere else. I showed that the moonstone set gives more spell fragments vs CC than you can ever use.
Just because you and others percieve the spire as the culprit doesn't mean it is the culprit. (indirectly it is off course since it gives out moonsets but thats another argument)
I am not denying you get to much spell fragments, what I proved is that the source is NOT the spire itself as the spire on it's own cannot support crafting in a high level academy.

Thats what math tells us. the spire can't support enough fragments for crafting 4 recipes a day.
Maybe it can in some weeks, but it will tank completely in other weeks.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

You are most kind Crazy Wizard...been in the game since 2018 with a few breaks due to family/job care.
My great desire remains being able to come to the Forum and glean the info so needed for myself and/smaller/growing fellowships.
Hence, I usually am the conduit of info I glean from here and share with others.

Not meaning to be unkind myself...it's usually late in the pm when I can do my "research" on the Forum...and truthfully, note 2 things:
1. So many of you are much further along in 1 or multiple cities...and that is good since you relay awesome information. However, many, often don't realize how far removed initial opinions/instructions come across as aggressive/dismissive to those in younger chapters.
2. Sometimes...it gets so edgy...that it does turn away many seeking to learn the game and do the work...and that is so disappointing.

After following you all for so long...I realize and respect that there is the balance we all seek to maintain. And so, I continue to come back and seek your advice, ratios etc. etc. Love, love having number crunchers around! Thanks so much for your kind insight. vees

Your welcome,

We like to provinde information, I am always open to re(learn)
To a certain extend we know the issues of lower level cities, but even if we start over, the prior knowledge we have gained gives us a huge advantage. I do know how to powerplay the game and I can't unlearn what I have learned,

Yesterday I had to remind some fellows that where claims that tournaments are "easy" and everyone can easily do xx provinces 6 rounds.
I had to remind them that not every player has a timewarp, and without you need to adjust RL around a tournament scedule instead of the game around RL, also which units you have, how far in game, did you make the right choices of buildings and event, and where you there when those buildings where provided. and do they understand what they are doing or why they are doing it these are all great factors to make a certain claim.

The main difficulty for beginners is the lack of knowledge, how well you can thrive depends on 3 factors:

• Are you willing to learn and open for suggestions
• Who do you meet in game, and are they knowledgefull and good tutors.

If you meet the right people you can take off with a flying start, and get all the knowledge you need, of you meet "the wrong" people you are just lead by the blind and it's not easy to escape that envoirment.

If someone can't do what they want try to understand why, and teach them how it can be done differently.
A little bit of knowledge and ethousiasm can go a long way, I have seen many times that when you join a guild, respectfully teach and show some enthousiasm you can turn a bunch of nitwits into a succesfull entousiastic guild that thrive in tournaments and spires.

People often do not know why it's usefull and beneficial and therefore see no reason, show them the path to reason and success follows.

 

[Veesviewpoint]

Spot on!
Communications styles vary, as does learning/comprehension. We all can learn something...along the way. Thanks again to you and others who venture to show up on the Forum. Many things about this game have changed, thanks to it's players/consumers and also with it's Management Teams/Leadership styles.

chuckles... (to me) there is still so much to learn...I must admit my comprehension is a little muddled in these later pm hours...so I go back and reread and ask a question here and there...until...light bulb moment!!!
In it's on way...we are all a vital part that keeps this game/commnication lines open...on so many levels/fellowships and cities.
And so often...ideas/messages eventually become more clear and some common ground and thoughts are established, and we all learn something.

Take care and thanks again...and to all who have participated in this thread(s) and continue to do so using the Forum format! vees