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    Your Elvenar Team

Newbie Needs Advice

CanDaMan

Active Member
If your scout time is 28 minutes, you are very early in the game. You have scouted 'too far out', and will have to wait for a few squad size upgrades to bring this down. I fight,instead of catering on the map, and have 2 rows of 'very easy' in front of me. I'm in Elementals, I took the pain early, to make things easier later, when the circumference of my explored world was bigger. I will catch up now though. BTW, my scout time is > 24 hours.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
If your scout time is 28 minutes, you are very early in the game. You have scouted 'too far out', and will have to wait for a few squad size upgrades to bring this down. I fight,instead of catering on the map, and have 2 rows of 'very easy' in front of me. I'm in Elementals, I took the pain early, to make things easier later, when the circumference of my explored world was bigger. I will catch up now though. BTW, my scout time is > 24 hours.

Heh, I am halfway through Halflings and my scout time is over 40 hours and either medium or hard. But I almost exclusively negotiate and save all my troops for tournament fighting.
 

Mykan

Oh Wise One
The early part of the game is not balanced correctly despite numerous feedback. So you will get very hard provinces from chapter 2 to 5* even if you do everything perfect. With a very hard rating don't even bother using troops, just negotiate.
* depending on your town this could be as late as chapter 6.

Your other option is to ignore the quest. Quests give lots of coins and supplies so it can be a tough call. You can either do the quest later when a province or a tournament come around or skip it when you cross into a new chapter. Upon entering a new chapter also mainline quests from the old chapter gain the decline option. Where you are in the tech tree and your need/desire to do the quests will help you decide on the best option for you.
 

DeletedUser19723

Guest
Heh, I am halfway through Halflings and my scout time is over 40 hours and either medium or hard. But I almost exclusively negotiate and save all my troops for tournament fighting.

I think I get what you and CanDaMan are saying. What puzzles me is why are your scout times so long? Do the times go up the further you go out from your city?
Also, I'm not sure I'm asking this right, but if you scout a province that says Very Hard, does it stay that way? Ummm....if I scout a province and it says Very Hard, but I don't go in until my troops are more and stronger, does what it says change to Easy or some such or is it still very hard because it changes as my troops change? Sorry :(. I know what I want to know but I don't think I'm asking it so it can be understood.
 

DeletedUser19723

Guest
The early part of the game is not balanced correctly despite numerous feedback. So you will get very hard provinces from chapter 2 to 5* even if you do everything perfect. With a very hard rating don't even bother using troops, just negotiate.
* depending on your town this could be as late as chapter 6.

Your other option is to ignore the quest. Quests give lots of coins and supplies so it can be a tough call. You can either do the quest later when a province or a tournament come around or skip it when you cross into a new chapter. Upon entering a new chapter also mainline quests from the old chapter gain the decline option. Where you are in the tech tree and your need/desire to do the quests will help you decide on the best option for you.

Is it true that if I don't fight, but negotiate a "very hard" province the negotiating costs are "very high" too?

I would like to ignore the quest, but it's a required one. If I understand what you are saying, I can decline it when I move to Chapter 3. That's nice to know. But, that also means I can't do any other required quests now. The quest just sits there on the left, making me crazy? Also, I can't gain any completion items. It probably isn't an issue when at a higher chapter, but right now I need all I can get.

Speaking of which, too bad some quest completion doesn't reward with population. Obviously just wishful thinking. ;)
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
Also, I'm not sure I'm asking this right, but if you scout a province that says Very Hard, does it stay that way? Ummm....if I scout a province and it says Very Hard, but I don't go in until my troops are more and stronger, does what it says change to Easy or some such or is it still very hard because it changes as my troops change? Sorry :(. I know what I want to know but I don't think I'm asking it so it can be understood.

Yes, if you increase your squad size or if you complete the Scouting research at the beginning of a new chapter after you have scouted a province, the difficulty to complete that province will go down.
 

DeletedUser2768

Guest
@ RosenhawkATA
Little green orc heads??? I won't sleep tonight imagining this!

Once you hit a certain ring of exploration, they become part of the cost of negotiating. I don't fight, so I can't tell you if they're part of that cost or not. I don't THINK they're part of the scouting cost, but I really don't pay attention any more.
 

Mykan

Oh Wise One
Is it true that if I don't fight, but negotiate a "very hard" province the negotiating costs are "very high" too?

Negotiating costs are based on the cost to scout a province. The more it costs the more you must pay to negotiate. So as you progress in the game the costs increase to match your technology increases. You can of course scout further if you have the production to keep up. Note because it is based on the cost to scout the rating really has little bearing on negotiation costs and these costs don't change once you have scouted a province.

The very hard rating can give you an idea of whether you are scouting beyond where the game is balanced for but this is not always the case. You get a very hard rating in provinces in chapter 2 even when you are inside the minimum number of provinces you need to obtain, this is due to an imbalance in the combat mechanic at this stage. It is not until chapter 5/6+ that this starts to balance out.

Yes, if you increase your squad size or if you complete the Scouting research at the beginning of a new chapter after you have scouted a province, the difficulty to complete that province will go down.

The cost of already explored provinces will not go down when you research advanced scouts. That tech only affects un-scouted provinces. Squad size techs do help the rating as it is a comparison of squad sizes, but the enemy squad size and the cost to negotiate will not change after scouting.

I would like to ignore the quest, but it's a required one. If I understand what you are saying, I can decline it when I move to Chapter 3. That's nice to know. But, that also means I can't do any other required quests now. The quest just sits there on the left, making me crazy? Also, I can't gain any completion items. It probably isn't an issue when at a higher chapter, but right now I need all I can get.

That is the challenege and why only you can decide what the best action is. if you are in chapter 2 how many provinces have you scouted so far? Chances are you will need the steel one to get into chapter 3 anyway so it may not be a big issue whether you do it now or later, either way it will still be very hard. Sadly your in the hardest part of the game for combat.

Once you hit a certain ring of exploration, they become part of the cost of negotiating. I don't fight, so I can't tell you if they're part of that cost or not. I don't THINK they're part of the scouting cost, but I really don't pay attention any more.

Nope, orc heads are a cap on negotiating only. Combat is limited by the enemy squad sizes, pretty much anything hard and very hard will stop most people from combat regardless of chapter.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
The cost of already explored provinces will not go down when you research advanced scouts. That tech only affects un-scouted provinces. Squad size techs do help the rating as it is a comparison of squad sizes, but the enemy squad size and the cost to negotiate will not change after scouting.

For some reason I keep thinking the Advanced Scouts reduces the cost to complete the provinces too, not just the initial cost of the scouting.
 

DeletedUser19723

Guest
Negotiating costs are based on the cost to scout a province. The more it costs the more you must pay to negotiate. So as you progress in the game the costs increase to match your technology increases. You can of course scout further if you have the production to keep up. Note because it is based on the cost to scout the rating really has little bearing on negotiation costs and these costs don't change once you have scouted a province.
So this is really about how much money you have and/or are willing to spend. Fair enough.

The very hard rating can give you an idea of whether you are scouting beyond where the game is balanced for but this is not always the case. You get a very hard rating in provinces in chapter 2 even when you are inside the minimum number of provinces you need to obtain, this is due to an imbalance in the combat mechanic at this stage. It is not until chapter 5/6+ that this starts to balance out.
This combat imbalance is obviously planned by the developers. I'm wondering why? Since it is in the early stages of the game, it seems to me to be a way to cull the casual players, leaving the serious players to keep going, so to say. This may explain why I have so many neighbors who are "stopped" at a main hall, some residences, and maybe a workshop and/or factory. I visit them every day and their cities never change.




The cost of already explored provinces will not go down when you research advanced scouts. That tech only affects un-scouted provinces. Squad size techs do help the rating as it is a comparison of squad sizes, but the enemy squad size and the cost to negotiate will not change after scouting.
So it sounds like it is not to my advantage to scout ahead unless absolutely necessary at this stage of the game.


That is the challenge and why only you can decide what the best action is. if you are in chapter 2 how many provinces have you scouted so far? Chances are you will need the steel one to get into chapter 3 anyway so it may not be a big issue whether you do it now or later, either way it will still be very hard. Sadly your in the hardest part of the game for combat.
I have scouted 22 provinces and have completed 18. I know I need to complete 25 to move on to Chapter 3, but I've got time. I still have 7 techs to complete.




Nope, orc heads are a cap on negotiating only. Combat is limited by the enemy squad sizes, pretty much anything hard and very hard will stop most people from combat regardless of chapter.
I'm a long time RPG enthusiast - Final Fantasy, Dragonquest, Bravely Default, Octopath Traveler... I'm not afraid of battling. I just don't like that in Chapter 2 the deck is stacked against me. I used to think that grinding was a tedious way to level up my characters. Now I'm thinking how easy.
 

DeletedUser8946

Guest
Yeah, don't even think about battling. Wait a few more chapters until you have all five of your Barracks troops, and a few decent levelled Armories.

As for quests, I don't worry about them. In my two minor cities, Beta and Sinya Arda, I literally forgot about the Quests. No joke: I'm going into Orcs and Goblins in one, almost done with Fairies in the other. I declined both sets of quests in both cities I hadn't done, and they were for the beginning of the DWARVEN CHAPTER. I had no IDEA I had been behind so far. I was winning all kinds of free Granite and Copper I couldn't collect, and made hundreds of thousands of coins and supplies. Quests are overrated. Especially with all the Instants they're handing out.
 

Mykan

Oh Wise One
yeah you definitely will be facing very hard provinces for a while. Keep to the minimum scouting for the moment and scout the closest provinces to you. Costs jump a lot for each ring you move out from your town. As you progress the world map fights will come down to medium so you should be able to start winning fights then based on your ability. At that stage scout out as far as you feel comfortable with. Just remember that advanced scouts help a lot in reducing cost/difficulty but only for unscouted provinces. Researching optional squad sizes gets you out of the pain sooner but it has negatives in terms of tournaments.

At your chapter, the best way to learn combat is in tournaments. The scaling of squad sizes makes the losses much easier to replace, the first province is only 5% of your world map squad size. The first round is also in your favour, the next is even and from the third the enemy is stronger than you. This way you can test and grow your ability in a predictable fashion and earn lots of rewards. The free spells and relics for spells and production boosts will help you a lot, not to mention KP for wonders and runes, etc.
 
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DeletedUser19905

Guest
yeah you definitely will be facing very hard provinces for a while. Keep to the minimum scouting for the moment and scout the closest provinces to you. Costs jump a lot for each ring you move out from your town. As you progress the world map fights will come down to medium so you should be able to start winning fights then based on your ability. At that stage scout out as far as you feel comfortable with. Just remember that advanced scouts help a lot in reducing cost/difficulty but only for unscouted provinces. Researching optional squad sizes gets you out of the pain sooner but it has negatives in terms of tournaments.

Regarding optional squad sizes: when in the tree does that appear? I have scrolled forward to "Faries" and haven't found that research item. Did I just overlook it? I am probably too early in the game to be worrying about this (just started Ch. 2), but I enjoy the battle in this game and have had reasonable success thus far, so I am afraid that I will inadvertently do this optional squad size thing without realizing and be kicking myself later.
 

DeletedUser2768

Guest
Regarding optional squad sizes: when in the tree does that appear? I have scrolled forward to "Faries" and haven't found that research item. Did I just overlook it? I am probably too early in the game to be worrying about this (just started Ch. 2), but I enjoy the battle in this game and have had reasonable success thus far, so I am afraid that I will inadvertently do this optional squad size thing without realizing and be kicking myself later.

If you go into Chapter II and look at Squad Size Upgrade 5, THAT one is optional.
 

Mykan

Oh Wise One
From memory there is on optional squad size for each chapter. Many people who do tournaments skip them but it can completely hamstring you early on in the game. Another alternative often used is to research them in the first few chapters and stop them from around dwarves,
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
Thank you!! The way it is set up, I would have just blithely poured the KP in and been screwed.

Technically, any research like that one that is not required to unlock a new research can be called optional, but if you scroll through the research tree, you will see more than just squad upgrades done that way. There are several city expansions that are "optional" in this way, but are not really optional for making your city better.

As for me, I just cannot skip a research, so I have done everything I can, even if I have to go back later for some of those "optional" ones. :)
 

DeletedUser19905

Guest
I just kept reading bits about how the optional squad size could be detrimental at some point, and as I enjoy the fighting aspect of the game, I didn't want to paint myself into a corner. I don't completely understand the explanations I've read about why it's not necessarily a good idea, but I often don't until I see something in action. The fighting made zero sense to me after reading the first part of the battle guide, but once I'd actually thrown troops into the field, suddenly it snapped into place.
 
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