DeletedUser9601
Guest
George Banks is saying no!
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Your Elvenar Team
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Deborah M
Oh Wise One
10 RR spells for each blueprint? From what they said in the Q&A it will take 16 RR spells for a 4x4 Magic residence and 24 RR for a 4x6 Magic workshop. They said 1 RR for each space on the Q&A. Not a chance I'm going to bend over and take that! 
Sounds to me like they are going to save me a whole lot of $$ going forward! No way I will spend a dime with a company who screws me over like that
Sounds to me like they are going to save me a whole lot of $$ going forward! No way I will spend a dime with a company who screws me over like that 
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
@Deborah M Yup. Players like you and @jps54 Just got screwed out of about 8,000 diamonds per year going forwards, plus about 160 diamonds per BP in the bank.
Deborah M
Oh Wise One
Yup
I did a bit of math. If they don't do something different for players like me who have spent a whole lot of $$ on a regular basis for years then my New Year's resolution will be not one thin dime to Inno ever again! I can't even begin to express how sick & angry this makes me. A Communist betrayal is as close as I can think of. Definitely seeing RED 
Mykan
Oh Wise One
Obviously beta is up in arms about this. Hopefully some good constructive feedback will see some level of review. Certainly a good time to have a beta account.
I would't expect much between now and the new year though due to holidays. Marindor has been good in providing some info but should they choose to do a review it likely won't occur until next year.
I would't expect much between now and the new year though due to holidays. Marindor has been good in providing some info but should they choose to do a review it likely won't occur until next year.
DeletedUser
Guest
Just running through these since I haven't been using the forum before, and love some of the verbage. lol
Jackluyt
Platinum Leaf -FB
Marindor gave this feedback in Beta
Hi everyone,
Thanks for your feedback so far.
Regarding your feedback about comparing the value of Royal Restoration Spells to Blueprints: The goal of adjusting the costs to the respective tile sizes of the buildings was to give you the option to upgrade your favorite event buildings, no matter if they are very big or super small. Prior to the conversion, you would have needed to spend 1 RBlueprint for the upgrade of each building, maybe even 2 for the biggest and strongest event buildings. Small buildings, on the other hand, would have also cost one Spell, which would have made them the worst upgrade option available, essentially penalizing you for wanting to keep that building in your city.
Regarding your concerns about the conversion rate, we do understand that, especially for players in higher chapters, everything seems more expensive. At the same time, however, we also need to keep players in earlier chapters in mind. All of our calculations right now are based on a value of one blueprint being 10 Royal Restoration spells. Premium Residences, for instance, as the most commonly placed premium buildings, have an average tile size of 10.85 combined for Humans and Elves. As you can see, the average for these is slightly above 10, due to higher Chapter buildings being bigger, but also significantly more effective. If you take Elves, the first premium residential above 10 tiles of size occurs as late as Chapter 8. Before that point in time, each upgrade actually even costs less than it did with Blueprints before.
This in turn means that each tournament completion now gives the equivalent needed to upgrade an average residence, and then some. Additionally, it has become a lot easier for smaller Fellowships to gain the Royal Restoration Spells for their members, as the conversion now allows us to split up the spells and put them already in earlier chests. Of course, the demands will increase over time in the game. That is only natural.
Of course, bigger buildings require more spells (because their output is a lot higher as well). Please also look at the fact that for smaller event buildings, it means that you can now upgrade more buildings per week than you would have with just 1 BP. Counting the overall average output per tile, it should be balanced in a fair way. Also: You don't have to make it to the final chest in the tournaments anymore to still be able to gain Royal Restoration Spells, so in general they will be obtainable for far more players than just the really fanatic ones who were able to acquire Blueprints before.
Either way, we will of course keep a close eye on the developments on Beta, that is the whole point of testing the release early. Therefore we also appreciate your comments and concerns, but please take some time and test these changes as well, play tournaments, upgrade some buildings, and let us know how everything feels.
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Hi everyone,
Thanks for your feedback so far.
Regarding your feedback about comparing the value of Royal Restoration Spells to Blueprints: The goal of adjusting the costs to the respective tile sizes of the buildings was to give you the option to upgrade your favorite event buildings, no matter if they are very big or super small. Prior to the conversion, you would have needed to spend 1 RBlueprint for the upgrade of each building, maybe even 2 for the biggest and strongest event buildings. Small buildings, on the other hand, would have also cost one Spell, which would have made them the worst upgrade option available, essentially penalizing you for wanting to keep that building in your city.
Regarding your concerns about the conversion rate, we do understand that, especially for players in higher chapters, everything seems more expensive. At the same time, however, we also need to keep players in earlier chapters in mind. All of our calculations right now are based on a value of one blueprint being 10 Royal Restoration spells. Premium Residences, for instance, as the most commonly placed premium buildings, have an average tile size of 10.85 combined for Humans and Elves. As you can see, the average for these is slightly above 10, due to higher Chapter buildings being bigger, but also significantly more effective. If you take Elves, the first premium residential above 10 tiles of size occurs as late as Chapter 8. Before that point in time, each upgrade actually even costs less than it did with Blueprints before.
This in turn means that each tournament completion now gives the equivalent needed to upgrade an average residence, and then some. Additionally, it has become a lot easier for smaller Fellowships to gain the Royal Restoration Spells for their members, as the conversion now allows us to split up the spells and put them already in earlier chests. Of course, the demands will increase over time in the game. That is only natural.
Of course, bigger buildings require more spells (because their output is a lot higher as well). Please also look at the fact that for smaller event buildings, it means that you can now upgrade more buildings per week than you would have with just 1 BP. Counting the overall average output per tile, it should be balanced in a fair way. Also: You don't have to make it to the final chest in the tournaments anymore to still be able to gain Royal Restoration Spells, so in general they will be obtainable for far more players than just the really fanatic ones who were able to acquire Blueprints before.
Either way, we will of course keep a close eye on the developments on Beta, that is the whole point of testing the release early. Therefore we also appreciate your comments and concerns, but please take some time and test these changes as well, play tournaments, upgrade some buildings, and let us know how everything feels.
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Deborah M
Oh Wise One
Like I said, Communism That was tongue in cheek before but not after reading their justification for stealing value from their players in higher chapters. Also like I said in the other thread about this, No worries! Inno will never see another dime from me or mine. Payment method is already deleted from all 7 cities for me & my family. That $$ I spent for the event is the last.They have now proven twice that they have no problem being unethical toward their customers, by reducing the value of the players' investment in the game, who steadily spend real $ over years to advance their games.
Actually, taking a good look at my main city that I have spent a ton of $ on, there will be no reason to play this game at all after this event is over. I have maxed out my city so without spending more $ there is no way forward. I cannot in good conscience spend any $ for any Inno game knowing that multiple times they have thought it is OK to devalue what their spending customers build up so that free to play customers can have the same advantages I paid for. Sad to be in a countdown to leaving my game
That was tongue in cheek before but not after reading their justification for stealing value from their players in higher chapters. Also like I said in the other thread about this, No worries! Inno will never see another dime from me or mine. Payment method is already deleted from all 7 cities for me & my family. That $$ I spent for the event is the last.They have now proven twice that they have no problem being unethical toward their customers, by reducing the value of the players' investment in the game, who steadily spend real $ over years to advance their games.Actually, taking a good look at my main city that I have spent a ton of $ on, there will be no reason to play this game at all after this event is over. I have maxed out my city so without spending more $ there is no way forward. I cannot in good conscience spend any $ for any Inno game knowing that multiple times they have thought it is OK to devalue what their spending customers build up so that free to play customers can have the same advantages I paid for. Sad to be in a countdown to leaving my game
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SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
@Deborah M
There is a total consensus among the beta players about this, and they are giving very strong feedback with both emotional and logical arguments (both of which matter equally since they drive spending).
The devs have had a handful of solutions laid out for them, and there is some hope of a tweak before the RR goes Live next year.
Unlike some of the other bad changes inno has made, this one is very closely tied to their income source, and I would think that they are paying more attention than usual to the feedback.
There is a total consensus among the beta players about this, and they are giving very strong feedback with both emotional and logical arguments (both of which matter equally since they drive spending).
The devs have had a handful of solutions laid out for them, and there is some hope of a tweak before the RR goes Live next year.
Unlike some of the other bad changes inno has made, this one is very closely tied to their income source, and I would think that they are paying more attention than usual to the feedback.
Pheryll
Set Designer
This is also a situation where there does not seem to be an easy fix. High paying accounts have been spending a large amount of money getting the tenth chest in tournaments. Unable to take back their squad size investment, they end up competing with free accounts that skipped squad size techs. The tournament system is being rebalanced, and instead of seeing the full picture, we just see the hammer at the beginning. We do not know how many RRs will be offered outside of the tournament. We do not know the difficulty the tournament will have after the fix is done. There are a lot of unknowns.
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
What is known is that the current spread of RR among the tournament chests makes the effort of getting 10 chests much less appealing and that every RR offered outside of tournaments(if any) would only increase this effect.
9 chests get you 72% of the RR for 80% of the points
8 chests get you 55% of the RR for 63% of the points
7 chests get you 45% of the RR for 48% of the points
6 chests get you 36% of the RR for 35% of the points
5 chests get you 27% of the RR for 24% of the points
4 chests get you 18% of the RR for 16% of the points<--- This is now the best RR per point sweet spot.
3 chests get you 9% of the RR for 9%% of the points<---This is about 200x cheaper per RR than getting 10 chests
Once you consider that the higher points cost far more than the lower points e.g. the 20th province costs 20x the first province, then you can see that the return on effort is massively skewed towards those who try less.
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Deborah M
Oh Wise One
@SoggyShorts I did go read the Beta forum. It was pretty much what I expected. Paying higher level players are NOT happy. Free to play players think it is great. Surprise, surprise Looking at their idea of fair being keeping the price to upgrade with diamonds the same, 43 magic residences + 12 magic warehouses = 55 magic upgrades x 320 diamonds = 17,600 diamonds = approximately $120.00. While I do spend $50-$100 at a time, I will not be doing so when I've been screwed out of what I worked and spent for. So say I kept the value that I worked for to get my blueprints. Somebody pointed out at the beginning of Amuni that I probably spent around $100 to upgrade all my blue buildings after I did the ones I had blueprints for. That was not far off. Now Inno is going to forfeit that $100 plus all the other things I spend diamonds on, like $50-$100 per large event for example, just so they can give benefits I paid for to people who spend little or nothing. Wow! What a bunch of geniuses they have working at Inno. Being a retired CPA, I cannot wrap my mind around how anybody thinks it is a good idea for Inno to slit their own throat by creating an exodus of paying customers.
Looking at their idea of fair being keeping the price to upgrade with diamonds the same, 43 magic residences + 12 magic warehouses = 55 magic upgrades x 320 diamonds = 17,600 diamonds = approximately $120.00. While I do spend $50-$100 at a time, I will not be doing so when I've been screwed out of what I worked and spent for. So say I kept the value that I worked for to get my blueprints. Somebody pointed out at the beginning of Amuni that I probably spent around $100 to upgrade all my blue buildings after I did the ones I had blueprints for. That was not far off. Now Inno is going to forfeit that $100 plus all the other things I spend diamonds on, like $50-$100 per large event for example, just so they can give benefits I paid for to people who spend little or nothing. Wow! What a bunch of geniuses they have working at Inno. Being a retired CPA, I cannot wrap my mind around how anybody thinks it is a good idea for Inno to slit their own throat by creating an exodus of paying customers.
Pheryll
Set Designer
The new distribution does lean in the direction of Elvenar making the tournaments harder, rather than easier.
hvariidh gwendrot
Well-Known Member
(the law of) diminishing returns keeps flying through my brain..no i'm not beta player but that's an odd read from the Mirando's feedback..level of players should not be a consideration, if you lose 1k non paying players of any level and keep the $$ players your continuation as a game is a lock and the bottom line will continue to grow ..@SoggyShorts, and @Pheryll if i read you two right, making the getting of 10 chests harder is fine but you're saying you get a higher ratio of effort to less reward ? divide up the reward for the tenth chest in to the lower 9 and do what for getting the tenth ?
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SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
Not really. Higher chapter players have more space, meaning magic buildings meaning more money. This isn't true necessarily for max level players as they might do zero upgrades for many consecutive months waiting for a new chapter.
Obviously, I don't know the details, but I do not think that spending is equal across all levels.
What I'm saying is that the old way if you put in max effort you got a blueprint. Now you get an RR for any level of effort. This saddens me as it removes the incentive to give max effort.
Work really hard and win a gold medal, or work totally half-assed twice and get a gold medal? Most people are not going to choose to work really hard.
Deborah M
Oh Wise One
Not necessarily true. I know players who are done Amuni so they moved on to adding factories as one example. Only speaking for myself, I bought 3 more magic residences so that I could add 5 factories, 2 silk + 1 dust to help support FS trades and tournaments and 2 gems that I would have needed for next chapter and to help since I tend to end up low on gems. The addition of those 3 magic residences was directly attributable to tournaments to help make sure we continued getting those blueprints every week. I now have 2 more gem factory upgrades on one of those and 3 more upgrades on the dust one with only 6500 population left. I have also spent on event sales, FA sales and not sure about troop & KP sales maybe. Even with a maxed out city the game still goes on if you can afford to spend on it. My problem with this is that not spending on things that I still continue to do between chapters pretty much means a stagnant game that I see no reason to play anymore especially since Inno thinks it is fine to devalue the games of players like me.
Adding: Of course some would have to be sold off to make room for new chapter and then rebuilt when chapter is over.
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DeletedUser7978
Guest
I am absolutely livid with this proposed change. Greed reigns!!! I have spend thousands on this game and a lot of time trying to become a member of a top fs that gets 10 chests a week. To devalue blueprints is to devalue top players and and working hard each week for 10 chests. I say nuts for thinking about smaller players. ALL OF US WERE SMALLER PLAYERS ONCE AND WE MADE IT!! Why not value the loyal players you have? This entire situation is so sad; and make what rationalizations you want, you are taking from loyal, larger players to appease newbies who may not stay around anyway (and to fatten your bank account no doubt).
Deborah M
Oh Wise One
What happened to the business rule of thumb that top 20% of customers produce 80% of a company's revenue? Between education & experience I really have to wonder just how many times Inno thinks they can chisel away at that top 20% of their customers before they slide down that slippery slope of decline they are flirting with. I know for a fact that this attitude of taking paying customers for granted has darn near put more than 1 successful gaming company out of business. Just saying!
DeletedUser3507
Guest
If it stays this proposed way I will be done also, Inno suxs with this idea...
And as Soggy say's I bought them a ship.. where my batch of torpedo's?
And as Soggy say's I bought them a ship.. where my batch of torpedo's?
Pheryll
Set Designer
Anyone here know if the RR cost is for the dimensions before or after the upgrade. Looking at elf (not human) and only counting the 12 available upgrades if you take the dimensions average from before upgrades you get exactly 10, if you take the dimensions average from after upgrades you get exactly 11. If you instead average all current dimensions for all 13 tiers you get 10.46. I think the Elvenar calcuation to get to 10 was just averaging the 13 tiers instead of averaging the upgrade values.
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