[Archived 02/2020] News from Beta

[Kekune]

From what's been said in the beta discussion:
Stonehenge = 4kps/48hrs @ max level
New Mermaid building = 3kp instant @ max level (guessing same 48hrs production?)

Mine seems to show that at level 10, it will provide a 3kp instant per day.

 

[The Unbeliever]

Oh dear gods! If these beta values are correct for the new evolving mermaid building, then please, just send this poor sucker strait to the graveyard and be done with it!
(Lv10 in Elementals = 1989 pop + 3910 culture. 5760 marble + 5440 steel + 5120 plank + 1x 3kp instant. @48hrs collection!!)

That's beyond bad...
For comparison, my Ch.8 human city w/3x Lv16 T1 boosted (marble for me) is making 6624 per factory every day!! (4x 3hr + 1x 9hr productions)
And yes, while our boosted factories also cost pop + culture + additional workshop pop/culture to run, they're still a far better deal since we're already investing in them anyways through natural game play & story progression.

Honestly, to make this thing worthwhile, it should probably;
- cut the production time to 24hrs (makes the 3kp instant more attractive & helps off-set the disadvantage vs. Stonehenge)
- change the goods to T2!! (T1 is no issue by ch.6 researches, and other recent prizes have ballooned the availability of T3... T2 help would be something to give this building it's own niche)
- add a 1% (Lv1) - 5%(@Lv10) HP boost to all units!! (seriously, our troops need a massive boost as is, especially with the Spire of Stupidity still being so beyond ridiculous in it's costs, while tourney costs are being forcibly over-inflated by so many forced squad size techs from S&D's through Constructs!)

Do THAT, (especially the even minor troop HP boost!), and we'll have a building that's well worth placing!

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Oh dear gods! If these beta values are correct for the new evolving mermaid building, then please, just send this poor sucker strait to the graveyard and be done with it!
(Lv10 in Elementals = 1989 pop + 3910 culture. 5760 marble + 5440 steel + 5120 plank + 1x 3kp instant. @48hrs collection!!)

Considering a level 10 Aureate Phoenix in Amuni gives 17,600 of each tier 1 good every 48 hours.......yeah.

 

[Sir Squirrel]

I actually like that it gives t1, that is what I am always short on anyway. But it would be nice if it gave a little more then what it does.
Doesn't bother me that the quest change either. I figured that might be coming, as people have been coming to the forums saying they completed the last one in a day or two, when it is suppose to take a week.
Not like you couldn't prebuild and have one and two day productions started like before, you just wont know for sure when and if you will need them.

 

[DeletedUser5521]

cut the production time to 24hrs (makes the 3kp instant more attractive & helps off-set the disadvantage vs. Stonehenge)

Per Marindor (Beta)

"Because of a bug, the text states that collection is once per 48 hours while it should be once per 24 hours, is this what caused the confusion? We'll have that bug resolved soon, by the way "

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

Considering a level 10 Aureate Phoenix in Amuni gives 17,600 of each tier 1 good every 48 hours.......yeah.

As @Aramina posted, Mermaid Paradise is supposed to be 24hr collection. As such, it is pretty comparable with Aureate Phoenix (slightly higher pop and culture + 3AWKP vs slightly higher T1 production + 250K gold for L10 in Elementals). Phoenix also have special effect with pet food, but its usefulness is very YMMV. But this comparison is largely moot - who has extra 9 Phoenix Artifacts for L10 Aureate?

And yes, while our boosted factories also cost pop + culture + additional workshop pop/culture to run, they're still a far better deal since we're already investing in them anyways through natural game play & story progression

Hmm, so how are they far better deal exactly? This is actually a pretty good replacement for T1 factory, at least in the later game. So L10 in Elementals would produce ~16K of T1 per day, with 4x4 footprint, while also providing quite a bit of culture and pop, and 3AWKPs. My L24 planks manufactory in Elementals does about 3K of planks every 3 hours - so about 18K of T1 a day with aggressive 3hr collection, perhaps a bit more. But it is 4x5 and instead of providing culture and pop it actually needs almost 4.3K of pop and 1.2K of culture. Not exactly a chump change.

Given that, Mermaid Paradise is probably a good deal even if you're running your manufactories with MM spell 24/7, and certainly if you don't. In much lower chapters it may not work out long term due to upgrade requirements (Royal Restoration). But for someone in the later chapters it is a pretty good investment.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

But this comparison is largely moot - who has extra 9 Phoenix Artifacts for L10 Aureate?

All the players I have visited since the Phoenix event who have a level 10 Aureate Phoenix and neither of the others out?

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

All the players I have visited since the Phoenix event who have a level 10 Aureate Phoenix and neither of the others out?

If someone has an L10 Aureate already placed, then Mermaid Paradise is probably not a good replacement for that. But that's not the point, as it is still a good replacement for one of the T1 manus. Unless there are no T1 manus left, it is worth placing in the late chapters city.

 

[The Unbeliever]

If someone has an L10 Aureate already placed, then Mermaid Paradise is probably not a good replacement for that. But that's not the point, as it is still a good replacement for one of the T1 manus. Unless there are no T1 manus left, it is worth placing in the late chapters city.

It being useful to maybe 5-10% at most of the entire player base is the definition of a crappy event building.
While it's good that it's a 24hrs collection, the T1 goods still hold it back. (I think I stopped worrying about low amounts of T1 goods by Ch4 or so!)

As I said - give it a 1 or 2% troop HP boost at Lv1, and top it out to 5-8% by Lv10!
THAT would make me build this ugly thing, since we currently have a massive need for defensive troops boosts, as the only permanent effects thus far is from Sanc/MM. (and those growths have been turned into roadkill by the huge number of forced SS techs imposed on us)

ATM, it's still not worth the effort involved to get it to Lv10... at least Stonehenge gives mana/seeds to the high chapter players?
(please correct me if I'm wrong of course!)
...and the mana/seeds especially will be a god-send for anyone who plans on running the upcoming Spire, since the negotiation game is going to devour horrendous amounts of those.

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

It being useful to maybe 5-10% at most of the entire player base

Not sure how you came up with this assessment. Don't know about others, but I am going to drop 1 T1 manufactory and 2 supporting residences, and replace them with a single 4x4 Mermaid Paradise. Great space savings.

And unlike T1 goods, mana/seeds are actually pretty much useless for end-game players (until the next chapter comes in). The Spire may change that, or it may not - who knows.

 

[The Unbeliever]

Not sure how you came up with this assessment. Don't know about others, but I am going to drop 1 T1 manufactory and 2 supporting residences, and replace them with a single 4x4 Mermaid Paradise. Great space savings.

And unlike T1 goods, mana/seeds are actually pretty much useless for end-game players (until the next chapter comes in). The Spire may change that, or it may not - who knows.

Well, how high a % of the player base are finishing up the last couple chapters, vs. the % that are still plowing through Ch's 2 through 10?
At the lower chapters, the amount of T1 gained is obviously far less vs. the higher chapters, which just makes it that much worse of a building...

ie: if say in O&G's, it's giving me only 3 or 4k of each T1 good? Well, whopptie flippin' Ork crap - I still need my T1's anyways due to forced story line quests which badly out-produce this thing, and the pop/culture of this building isn't worth it either, since I can just get far more optimal buildings out of strait pop/culture hybrids.
So what else is this going to do for my city? A 3kp instant every day? That's leagues worse than what the last event from just a few weeks ago is giving! (and it also gives T3 goods by the early guest races, which are arguably the 'best' option, since you can trade down for far more T2 & T1 goods, even with the 1:2:4 ratios most Fellowships prefer)

So really, this building does nothing unique. It has no niche of it's own, nor is it even roughly on-par with the previous (including extremely recent) offerings...
Being maybe slightly better than the gold phoenix because you don't need the pet food to gain the full bonus is hardly a selling point.

Now if it gave say 4.5/5k of each T1 per 24hrs in O&G's? It would easily be worth blowing up the Fall set.
(ie: going from 7x6 to 4x4 for slightly fewer goods overall, and losing the coin + supplies + kp + some culture for a tiny instant + pop is a solid upgrade)

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

By that token, all event buildings are worthless as without upgrades they will eventually fall behind for most players.

If you want to look at O&G let's look at O&G. Maxed out mermaid building will produce about 7.4K of T1 a day + 340 pop + culture. L19 Elven planks manufactory boosted to the max can do 5.7K T1 a day with 6x3hr collections (pretty aggressive), with 5x2 footprint and it needs more than 1K pop + culture.

So T1 manufactory takes less space by 6 squares. To equalize with the mermaid building, you need in 6 squares: provide extra 1.7K of T1 + 1.4K of pop + some culture (probably about 1K). I don't think you can do it in O&G, not by a long shot. I don't even account for AWKPs and coin/supply requirements for manufactory (granted, pretty minimal).

 

[The Unbeliever]

By that token, all event buildings are worthless as without upgrades they will eventually fall behind for most players.

If you want to look at O&G let's look at O&G. Maxed out mermaid building will produce about 7.4K of T1 a day + 340 pop + culture. L19 Elven planks manufactory boosted to the max can do 5.7K T1 a day with 6x3hr collections (pretty aggressive), with 5x2 footprint and it needs more than 1K pop + culture.

So T1 manufactory takes less space by 6 squares. To equalize with the mermaid building, you need in 6 squares: provide extra 1.7K of T1 + 1.4K of pop + some culture (probably about 1K). I don't think you can do it in O&G, not by a long shot. I don't even account for AWKPs and coin/supply requirements for manufactory (granted, pretty minimal).

The main issues though: my T1 manufactory is required in order to advance through the story quests. I have 0 choice in this matter, I must keep one or two of them at a minimum, or else I forfeit the rewards of the main story line quests. (which will include diamonds - the ultimate prize for freemium players!)

So for me, and for I dare say the vast majority of players, the need to keep space to run at least a couple manufactories is a moot point.

What makes a good event grand prize IMHO is;
a) Does this do something the rest of my city can't do very well and/or at all? (ie: Phoenix's atk boost)
b) Does this do something much more efficiently than X/Y/Z in my city does? (ie: Carnival set is stupid-good T3+mana+seeds production)
c) Is it worth the effort required to obtain it?

Unfortunately, while this new building can kind of slot into 'b', it ignores option 'a' entirely, and really seems to fall short of point 'c'.
So sure, I *could* replace 1 of my T1's with this, but really, considering the effort involved and that it's only about +1k goods vs. what the 1 factory is already making @ just Lv16, it seems like a helluva lot of effort for very minimal gain...
Now if it gave say, T2, which seems to be harder to keep stockpiled, and/or did something besides just T1 and a token kp instant, it might seem more attractive.

 

[Deleted User - 312108]

Keep in mind that a prize's worth will vary player to player depending what chapter they are in. Since I tend to cater vs. battle (mostly because battles are slow and painful) the fire phoenix that I got in chapter 5 was of limited use so I opted for the aureate phoenix which at least gives me goods. For the fire phoenix that I got in chapter 6 that gives me portal profits.... it was worth the space for just for the portal profit to me.

For the mermaid evolving building - I would much prefer to see it as a T2 Boosted +1 vs. a static. I dislike the static because for the good that it grants more of, it makes life a lot more difficult for players who have that boosted to trade effectively when people are getting that good for free and really have little need to trade for it. Having it based off the player's boosted keeps things a bit more even keeled.

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

The main issues though: my T1 manufactory is required in order to advance through the story quests. I have 0 choice in this matter, I must keep one or two of them at a minimum, or else I forfeit the rewards of the main story line quests. (which will include diamonds - the ultimate prize for freemium players!)

Um, no. You absolutely have a choice in this matter. There are no diamond-rewarding quests that require any manufactories, and all the other quests are declinable when the next chapter is unlocked. So you can run with zero manufactories and still harvest quest diamonds.

Unfortunately, while this new building can kind of slot into 'b', it ignores option 'a' entirely, and really seems to fall short of point 'c'.
So sure, I *could* replace 1 of my T1's with this, but really, considering the effort involved and that it's only about +1k goods vs. what the 1 factory is already making @ just Lv16, it seems like a helluva lot of effort for very minimal gain...

It doesn't ignore option 'a' - it absolutely does something that the rest of your city cannot do very well. It is a much more efficient T1 producer than pretty much anything you may have (outside maybe a few event buildings from old events).

And you don't build it for extra T1 goods - you build it for extra space that you can free up due to its higher efficiency. I looked at one of your cities (on US6), and you're running 3x L24 T1, plus 1x sentient L24 T1. You can drop one T1 and replace it with the Mermaid Palace (which is smaller). Then you can drop the whole residence (that's another 4x4 freed up), and you will still have higher pop. That's a lot of extra space with higher pop and T1 production. Whether or not it is worth your effort is entirely up to you, but the second setup is clearly more efficient.

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

For the mermaid evolving building - I would much prefer to see it as a T2 Boosted +1 vs. a static. I dislike the static because for the good that it grants more of, it makes life a lot more difficult for players who have that boosted to trade effectively when people are getting that good for free and really have little need to trade for it. Having it based off the player's boosted keeps things a bit more even keeled.

That I definitely agree with. Static goods productions can potentially create artificial market dislocations globally. And I don't get why do they do it - we know that there is a well established approach of +1/+2 to the boost and it works well. Why on Earth would they NOT use it at all times?

 

[Xelenia]

I must say, was fun reading the discussion at hand! Dropping a T1 and two Residence for a Mermaids' Paradise.....

Taps chin walking off...

 

[Dopeykr]

'Summer Mermaids' questline event just started in Beta!

I will be adding details of quests and prizes in the course of the day, here:
https://tinyurl.com/y3uu2yxn

You are welcome to share the link with friends and fellowship, and to submit comments.

 

[Jackluyt]

We have the whole structure of the event now.
The quests appear to repeat in no as yet discernable order - and they never end.
We will add to a sample list of what one player received as they appear.
You are welcome to share the link with friends and fellowships.

https://tinyurl.com/y3uu2yxn

 

[DeletedUser3122]

We have the whole structure of the event now.
The quests appear to repeat in no as yet discernable order - and they never end.
We will add to a sample list of what one player received as they appear.
You are welcome to share the link with friends and fellowships.

https://tinyurl.com/y3uu2yxn

Our FS is done with the FA, and in preparing for this next event, can I ditch my T1 sets and only keep my T1 boosted? I so need to get rid of the nonboosted!!