News from Beta - May Contain Spoilers!

[Deleted User - 3932582]

OK, so here is a post on tournament progression calculations (obviously, work-in-progress):

https://minmaxgame.com/tournament-requirements-calculation/

There is a calculator spreadsheet for tournaments (includes catering), so you can play around with that and see how ramp up requirements look like. Just like with the Spire, base squad size here is a given, just like last time that calculation may take some time to figure out. Let me know if it works for you (and especially if it doesn't).

 

[DeepTerminal]

I understand that many ppl play tourneys for the KPs past the first 10 provinces, but for me, the biggest motive is the Blueprints and RR spells. I'm not at endgame yet and I desperately need them to upgrade my buildings.

So from my perspective, if getting 1600 points can be made easier than before, then that would be a good change. The downside is that with the new difficulty distribution, we would have to stay up at weird hours in order to complete 6 stars for the first few provinces..

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

I understand that many ppl play tourneys for the KPs past the first 10 provinces, but for me, the biggest motive is the Blueprints and RR spells. I'm not at endgame yet and I desperately need them to upgrade my buildings.

So from my perspective, if getting 1600 points can be made easier than before, then that would be a good change. The downside is that with the new difficulty distribution, we would have to stay up at weird hours in order to complete 6 stars for the first few provinces..

I do not think 1600 will be "easier" it will be about the same, and you could very wel argue it's actually worse
That said, who is going to compensate for all players in your guild that fail to make the 1600 mark?

That 10 chests mark with blueprints and restorations spells might be further away that you might think, unless you are in a guild where everyone already makes the 1600 mark. Less fellowships will make the mark in this situation as many rely on a few good players to compensate for those who are not as good.

It's not unlikely that this will break up quite a few fellowships as members start to argue and push other players beyond a point they are yet comfortable with, creating tension between it's members especially if the 10 chest mark is not made.

This is a clear example of a fellowship that will not make the cut in the new situation

 

[Risen Malchiah]

Yeah, many players have work, family or school priorities that make doing 6 rounds difficult, especially without Timewarp or Polar Bear. Many players opt to do more provinces in fewer rounds so they can contribute to the fellowship in a way that accommodates their schedules even if their overall score is slightly lower.

For me, I've always enjoyed pushing myself. I've played *every* single week of the tournament since it became fellowship-based. Not one week was missed in that time and I was able to steadily increase my ability and score over time. Now I routinely do 30-50 provinces for 5-6 rounds because I *enjoy* it. I challenge myself to push higher, often above 10k. It's what I enjoy most in the game. If that will no longer be possible, I'm afraid I will lose interest in the game, which is especially hard as archmage of 2 strong fellowships. How do I continue if my enthusiasm is gone?

 

[Pheryll]

From what I see with people's performances, they are trying to penalize players who skipped squad sizes down to the point of those who did not skip. The 20+ provinces being excessive (according to Marindor), really establishes many of the squad size skippers as being "hardcore" tournament players. For those that have not skipped, things do not look as bad, and for several things might be slightly better as far as tournament performance is concerned.

 

[mikeledo]

Today we have good news and bad news. The good news is we added more chests. The bad news is we made it harder so you may not get 10 chests that you had. This is INNO's way of cutting back on the loose KP folks get and slowing the game down even more. For me, it will mean MORE clicks because I will have to change my mode of fighting from auto to manual in an attempt to counter a fraction of the horrendous troops losses.

 

[DeletedUser19458]

Now I routinely do 30-50 provinces for 5-6 rounds because I *enjoy* it. I challenge myself to push higher, often above 10k. It's what I enjoy most in the game. If that will no longer be possible, I'm afraid I will lose interest in the game, which is especially hard as archmage of 2 strong fellowships. How do I continue if my enthusiasm is gone?

I am in exactly this situation and it is only the NEWS of the change at this point that has already demotivated me to play. Really disappointed this week.

For me, it will mean MORE clicks because I will have to change my mode of fighting from auto to manual in an attempt to counter a fraction of the horrendous troops losses.

Yeah, there is no way I have time in my day to manual fight 30+ battles, every day every week if, like the Spire, manual fight is essentially required to play. Autofight on my phone is 100x more convenient and faster; I have never thought 4 battles a province was an issue.

Rather then attempting to adjust to the new rules of the game, which counter the city buildup I've been working towards for couple years, I'm more likely to just stop playing.

 

[mikeledo]

Rather then attempting to adjust to the new rules of the game, which counter the city buildup I've been working towards for couple years, I'm more likely to just stop playing.

I am a misery loves company type of guy. As long as everyone is screwed about the same. Overall they are cutting back on KP to slow the game down. The tournament was the second of such KP reduction. They did the same in the event offering less KP as prizes. They went from having 2- 30KP instant days to none to a 20KP instant. Remember when they had petfood? It was a one time shot. I scored about 30 of them. They never did it again. I think wishing wells are a thing of the past too. It would be nice to understand some of the thought processes. Communication goes a long way for retention of players.

 

[The Unbeliever]

They did post that was a bug and is getting looked at, so that should not stay a problem.

Considering we already went through this with them, it's still an amateur level feth up that shouldn't have happened.

And what do you consider an "average" player when it comes to tournaments? What is an average score? 1000? 2000? 3000? The 1670 that is just enough to help a 25-person fellowship get 10 chests?

The Beta announcement specifically calls out the 5000-point threshold, so I think they are more punishing the players who get tons of KP from the tournament, who also happen to get scores of 4000, 5000, 6000, etc while collecting all that KP. It seems to be just another way to slow players down, so that they do not speed so quickly through the newest chapters, but it will end up hurting a lot more players than just them.

Personally I consider 1500-3k to be an 'average' player, and they will probably end up the most effected, since many of them tend to burn through most of their troops each week...
Without being able to focus on 1-2 specific troops, it makes recruiting enough bodies a nightmare, (time instants now mandatory), and it could also add enough strain to coins/supplies/goods that for many it will force a choice between tournament play OR spire participation.

This too will help to blow up many Fellowships, as a goodly number have managed to hit a sweet spot of being some form of 10-chest (whether weekly or every 3-4 weeks a 10 chest run), AND, managing to hit the 50 diamond prize for the spire group rewards.

At least, that's my prediction if Inno is stupid enough to shove through the changes as they are.

I am in exactly this situation and it is only the NEWS of the change at this point that has already demotivated me to play. Really disappointed this week.

Yeah, there is no way I have time in my day to manual fight 30+ battles, every day every week if, like the Spire, manual fight is essentially required to play. Autofight on my phone is 100x more convenient and faster; I have never thought 4 battles a province was an issue.

Rather then attempting to adjust to the new rules of the game, which counter the city buildup I've been working towards for couple years, I'm more likely to just stop playing.

And let's not forget that Elvenar's manual battle system is steaming pile of crap to boot... slow, clunky, prone to dropping out, and oh yes, mobile players are screwed out it completely!
Plus the added junk shot of the randumb terrain generator that is likely to give you impossible fights.

I never fight manually in Elvenar simply because it takes too damn long!

Compare this to Forge's manual battle system, where terrain outside of a couple exceptions, doesn't block/prevent movement, but instead, simply gives bonuses or penalties depending on your unit type.
(ie: early game Light Infantry will gain a defense bonus when standing in bushes or forests, while early game Heavy Infantry will be at a disadvantage on things like mountains/swamps)
This makes the fighting far more tactical, and overall, a lot more fun to boot! Plus, with the way the terrain itself works - generally by inflicting movement penalties, it also means that a good, capable fighter can win battles even against armies they're technically disadvantaged against.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

I am a misery loves company type of guy. As long as everyone is screwed about the same. Overall they are cutting back on KP to slow the game down. The tournament was the second of such KP reduction. They did the same in the event offering less KP as prizes. They went from having 2- 30KP instant days to none to a 20KP instant. Remember when they had petfood? It was a one time shot. I scored about 30 of them. They never did it again. I think wishing wells are a thing of the past too. It would be nice to understand some of the thought processes. Communication goes a long way for retention of players.

I can live with this, the problem is, we arent , depending on your (premium) expansions and wonderlevels you are more or less screwed.
Well off course I could just destroy all my wonders, but I can't take back the expansions.

And lets say if I could why would I still play the tournaments?
-KP?, I just whacked all that did not matter, so which wonder?
-Spells? Well the spire just got easier since I whack ed all wonders and expansions so the difficulty is gone and I no longer need those as well
-Ranking points?, I just destroyed my ranking because of the tournaments, so which ranking?
-Runefragments? for which I can't build wonder because it shrews me over wonder should I need fragments?

Spire:-
- Diamonds? Why would I need those, as soon as I use them I am screwed
- Frangments? for what? I just said the tournaments became useless, so no need for crafting
- Premium Buildings? I just destroyed my town, I can't use more of them
- Time boosters? No tournament, no spire, no development, why would I need time boosters

Playing the game?
I can't develop my town anymore since it will destroy my tournament / spire
I can't enjoy either the spire or tournaments anymore?

Why should I play again?
What are the goals left for playing?


If every player just got a reduction in the amount of possible provinces I would be ok, it makes sense they ad some kind of scaling to prevent people to do 80-100 or who knows how much in the future.
But this ain't scaling, this is destruction because player A get hampered by 15% the other by 50% and the last by 100%, same player same chapter, same everything execept the difference between expansions and wonderlevels.
and every player will know, if I keep developing my town I'll end up just like all the others that did.

This change destroys what elvenar is in essence, a city you develop, but with this change your development got severly hampered, wnd without development I don't see a game left to play.

 

[Ashrem]

Personally I consider 1500-3k to be an 'average' player

This is why it's always a problem. I think I'm an average player, and I rarely get more than 1000 outside of a push week. It's unusual for half of our players to make 500. In the past, five or six of us could occasionally carry them to 10 chests. That's never going to happen again.

 

[mikeledo]

INNO catered to the BFDU (Big Diamond users). Seems like a good business model. If you want to run with the big dogs, shell out some money. If not, your city will be smaller and tourny scores less unless you figure out how to use festival buildings, etc to your advantage. I think some of the best players don't use diamonds because they have learned to navigate the system. But now INNO is leveling the playing field for the cheap casual player. I believe this is being done to get them hooked and then they will ease off and swap back. When folks have a lot of time invested in their city, they will be more likely to spend diamonds to maintain their level of competitive play. Or maybe it is just a glitch.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

INNO catered to the BFDU (Big Diamond users). Seems like a good business model. If you want to run with the big dogs, shell out some money. If not, your city will be smaller and tourny scores less unless you figure out how to use festival buildings, etc to your advantage. I think some of the best players don't use diamonds because they have learned to navigate the system. But now INNO is leveling the playing field for the cheap casual player. I believe this is being done to get them hooked and then they will ease off and swap back. When folks have a lot of time invested in their city, they will be more likely to spend diamonds to maintain their level of competitive play. Or maybe it is just a glitch.

????
I think it's the other way around, because if you spend diamonds on expansions and wonders direct or indirect trough tournaments you are getting screwed.
If you are Joe I don't spend a penny average you are in no way screwed. you do not own those expansions (mostly), you own less wonderlevels so it's much easier.
You could build a orc town (so you can unlock more than 222 provinces) play as an elf, and build a minimal town with 1 barracks, some armories, 1 level 30 needles, minimal production to unlock provinces, a fire phoenix and as little expansions as possible, just do not place those darn things.

This way you have max unit production with absolute minimal costs, and everthing unlocked to 3* barracks units (humans suck since they are stuck with mortar)
This minimal account would not cost a single penny,

Now put that agains a player who start the game, buils the builder, get an offer for 3-4 premium expansions for value X (these do not count for the diamond price increase) then that player buys another 15-20 premium expansions because he/she likes the game. build up het town, want to play the tournament's and BAM! PENALTY! this chapter 5 player who just spend a fortune is now unable to compete since het spending spree resulted in twice the amound of expected provinces raising the difficulty sky high compared to his or her advancement in game.

See the problem? they are punisching the paying players, not the freebees.

 

[mikeledo]

That is pretty much what I stated. Did you actually read the whole thing?

 

[Risen Malchiah]

Haha and I've done a completely odd thing once I learned that the Spire (and now possibly the tourney) takes placed expansions into account. I stopped buying premium expansions since the Spire formula became known and I have a couple city & province expansions piling up that I have not placed. I'm at the end of ch 15 & nothing in Embassies interests me so I've got plenty of space. Why place these extra expansions if it will hurt me?

Timon, come back and save us from this crap.

 

[BrinDarby]

If the point of the changes is to better accomidate newer players, then the current scheme is coounter productive , in my opinion, and here's why......

When a player starts they get Dancers, archers, and treats.... but Treats arent trainable till end of CH2 ... Newer players not knowing about the Spire won't usually burn all thier fragments on a building, thinking they must conserve... So things like the Orc or Valorian bldg that builds troops without research help a new player the most.... Very quickly I ran outta treats, I started losing battles left/right and cater'd alot....

Remember newer players crave those expansions and its too easy to unlock too many so your fighting is "very hard"... complicating that is the rediculious trade system that forces new players to expand thier scouted territory just to trade with a few more ppl... they still end up with the same problem....... cater or nothing.......

The other confusing thing about troops/SS is in the Barracks it might say SS is 69, but in Spire it could also say 128, then in tourn its 12.... there is no consistency for that new player to understand.... even I still don't get it.

My map it littered with dead accts, and I know why.,...... ppl can't get what they need, when they need it....... a CH 1/2 player will never have 10k of something, and older players only trade in huge qtys that new players just drool @...... also once you get ahead of research, and thats way too easy, everything is "very hard" and losing 1 battle might cost you 30-50% of your entire trroop strength.... so then it takes 2 weeks to build that back up ( for most ppl )........ ppl get disinterested very quickly......

Elvenar is a buisness, there is a cost to player aquisition and to player retention.... all those TV ads cost alotta (diamonds)... hahahaha..
but then you attract players, but then if player retention isn't address'd .... all those TV ads, kinda are a waste of $$.... Furthermore newer players have the most possibility to add revenue to Elvenar..... not the whales that have been here for 3 years...

So any changes that are made to impact newer players, must actually help new players, I for 1 don't want 1 fight instead of 4, it gives me something to do... but my opinion aside here, increasing the troop size per fight to 4x will scare new players, its really only helping older players that don't wanna do 200 fights... whereas the new player 100% wants thier 12-16 fights, since we all know they won't have very many of each province opened up...... and it gives players something to while they watch the paint dry.

BrinD

 

[mikeledo]

Most people I know leave the game for RL issues and do not have the time. I know a few who got bored and many left without a word. I am still going to play by the notion "bigger is better" (not my idea, just something women say to me when they walk out). I will wait for INNO to come full circle on their ideas like they typically do. I am not tearing down anything or stop growing on a whim. It is counter productive to my enjoyment of the game.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

You could build a orc town (so you can unlock more than 222 provinces) play as an elf, and build a minimal town with 1 barracks, some armories, 1 level 30 needles, minimal production to unlock provinces, a fire phoenix and as little expansions as possible, just do not place those darn things.

This way you have max unit production with absolute minimal costs, and everthing unlocked to 3* barracks units (humans suck since they are stuck with mortar)
This minimal account would not cost a single penny,

But this is not playing the game. Advancing through the chapters and building a normal city is the game. The tournament and events and Spire are all just extra stuff you can do or not do. Maybe Inno is just tired of all the players who stop advancing to focus on something that is not the core of the game and do not care if the players who only care about the tournament quit?

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

But this is not playing the game. Advancing through the chapters and building a normal city is the game. The tournament and events and Spire are all just extra stuff you can do or not do. Maybe Inno is just tired of all the players who stop advancing to focus on something that is not the core of the game and do not care if the players who only care about the tournament quit?

Thats my main gripe with this update, it's no longer about progression but regression.
The more you progress to the game the more you regress in the tournaments.

To me that does not make sense. I already have this issue in the spire I do not need the tournaments to follow suit.

This is what my spire looks like atm, this is bordering lunacy, I can still play thanks to some really powerfull sets, some wonders and.....the tournaments!!!

Without the tournaments I can sustain the tower for a long while due to build up reserves over the past many years, but I wont be able to systain it naturally.

If the tournaments also lead to a path that cannot be sustained? then what is left to play, I am in no mood to go back to 2015 when we could do nothing else than advancing trough chapters without any other thing to do.

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

Give it up @CrazyWizard, Inno doesn't want you (and players like you) as customers. Looking at you makes the casual players depressed, and depressed people do not spend more on online games, they spend more on alcohol