News from Beta - May Contain Spoilers!

[Lelanya]

Agree with Mykan, the troop training issue is most likely a bug. Timon is always saying how interconnected things are, and they have been playing with reprogramming Spire battles again. And also the way Wonders scale up.

 

[Yavimaya]

Agree with Mykan, the troop training issue is most likely a bug. Timon is always saying how interconnected things are, and they have been playing with reprogramming Spire battles again. And also the way Wonders scale up.

I'm very glad to hear this. Thank you and thank you as well @Mykan.

 

[Glandeh]

Do you even get all 3 buildings? I read it as you will have to choose 1 of the 3.

Edit to add copy of what I read …Unlock the secrets within the Tome of Sorcerer Trials and select from three extraordinary main prizes…

@Silver Lady: two seems doable, 3 might be hard (you will probably need to get to gold league for that). Also the FA after the one that is about to start might give another base or artifact.

 

[Fayeanne]

There are so many changes to wonders it could take a novel to update on everything.

Is there a summary list of the changes anywhere? Somewhere in Discord perhaps?

 

[quin629]

IF - and only IF - the actual purpose was to 'level the playing field' by taking away extra advantages from high-level players, they have gone about it in the most backwards way possible. The thing about AW levels is that all players, even rank newbies, can eventually unlock the exact same AWs and can level them up in exactly the same way the big players have, via regular game play.

The permanent imbalance for newbies is players who have multiple bases for strong evolving buildings, or 27 Moonstone Library sets, or such - things that happened earlier in the game that new players can never get now. The nerfing of AWs hurts high level players now but will equally hurt newbies if they eventually leveled up those same AWs. And if hurts small players even more than big ones because there will be almost no leveling up of AWs due to costs - the big players will still have the big AWs and the little players, well, won't.

 

[Silver Lady]

@Glandeh Thanks but I was just curious. I’m not planning to even do this event at all. There are too many events for me and I’m struggling to get through a chapter. If these latest changes play out the way it seems I may not be playing at all.

 

[Pheryll]

Deadeye Jerry — 01/11/2024 at 10:05 AM​

Ancient Wonders changes - Additional improvements following feedback​

First, we really want to thank all our beta players for the useful feedback you have provided since we implemented the recent improvements to Ancient Wonders bonuses and costs. This is what beta is meant for and thanks to your feedback we are now able to implement a series of additional improvements to address 2 of the major points raised. They will be available on beta from tomorrow, January 12.

• We are doubling the Culture effect of 3 Ancient Wonders (Martial Monastery / The Sanctuary, Watchtower Ruins, and Thermal Spring of Youth)
  • Keep in mind this will still be a lower amount compared to how it was before the initial change, we still listened your feedback and corrected those benefits to increase them
• We are introducing helpful refunds for some buildings. They will now grant Combining Catalyst or Royal Restoration depending on their size and type (usually between 1 and 3)
  • This will help provide additional ways to get the resources needed to level up your Ancient Wonders in the new system
  • We plan to keep expanding the list of buildings in the future
  • Down here you can see an image with the first round of buildings [list removed]

 

[Pheryll]

The list is incomplete but contains a few notable entries for refunds

Magic Residence/Workshop: 5 Royal Restoration
Premium Culture Building: 1-3 Royal Restoration
Dwarven Armorer: 2 Royal Restoration
Other Military Buff Buildings: 1 Combining Catalyst

It appears that the refunds are linked to the selling of the buildings, as the military buff buildings are listed as formerly refunding in coins/supplies.

 

[Mykan]

I hope it is selling, if we have to teleport and then disenchant it creates a whole other issue.

 

[Astram]

I hope it is selling, if we have to teleport and then disenchant it creates a whole other issue.

Yes, it is the selling of the Item that generates the "refund." As respect to the current iteration of beta tomorrow 01/12

 

[Fayeanne]

But does it count if the building is expired when you sell it? At least that would let us get an extra bonus from buildings that are no longer useful anyway...

 

[Yogi Dave]

It appears that the refunds are linked to the selling of the buildings, as the military buff buildings are listed as formerly refunding in coins/supplies

I preferred the coins/supplies. I kept them in my city until I was ready to feed the brown bear. Then I used the coins to by KP and the supplies to buy troops and used time instants to train them.

 

[Yogi Dave]

Here is the pic from beta Discord:

An error I see in it is the dwarven armorer also gives coins and supplies.

But on another note, if you sell all of a particular moonstone set buildings, it will show up in the MA which slightly reduces you chance of a building you want from showing up.

 

[Mykan]

No love for genies? Maybe they didn't make the list. Wondering when my group expire if I should delete or save them
I can think of a long list of guest race buildings that would be nice to add to this list

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

No love for genies? Maybe they didn't make the list. Wondering when my group expire if I should delete or save them
I can think of a long list of guest race buildings that would be nice to add to this list

This is just the first wave. There are more to come. I would bet that eventually every event building will have this kind of resale value, thus making people choose between making spell fragments from disenchanting or RRs or CCs from selling.

 

[Mighty Peach]

I will quote myself from Discord:

"Under the new system, leveling an ancient wonder to level 15 would cost: 120,000 spell fragments, 120 CCs, 30 RRs. That's just to level 15 so a moderate level. If you wanted to eventually build 10 ancient wonders to level 15, that would cost: 1,200,000 spell fragments, 1200 CC, 300 RRs. Under the current system, a semi-casual player could achieve building and leveling those 10 ancient wonder to level 15 within a reasonable time frame. How in the world is the same player going to be able to collect over 1 million spell fragments with this new system? Even if they finish Spire every single week which is usually reserved for a very small percentage of players, it would take over 1.5 years assuming 15,000 spell fragments every single week. And they certainly are not crafting anything else."

 

[Yavimaya]

Is there a summary list of the changes anywhere? Somewhere in Discord perhaps?

There are some on there but not all of them. Only a few. They were not all announced in any of the updates. Just the several and the upgrading requirements part. More AWs than mentioned also have changes.

 

[Yavimaya]

I can think of a long list of guest race buildings that would be nice to add to this list

Ohhhhh! Maybe this should go in the ideas/suggestions section on discord? It's worth a shot! Lmk if you do. Or throw it in the beta feedback aw change one? Idk? It would help at least a little bit if they added those. They did say in the announcement that they plan on adding to the list.

 

[Yavimaya]

But does it count if the building is expired when you sell it? At least that would let us get an extra bonus from buildings that are no longer useful anyway...

I'm also wondering this. My guess is it would count as some of the buildings on the list are not expiring buildings? @Astram any idea?

 

[Mykan]

Easier to write an epistle here and I trust feedback is still read (and hopefully passed on) from forums. I have ignored the military wonders mainly, there might be minor changes or display changes (unsure which). Too much to cover already and those didn't look huge at first, same for bee.

Based on the updates in it current iteration.
The good

• Consistent and predictable value in wonder levels.
• More consistent output of wonders with less variability based on player actions.
• Better scaling of several wonders as players progress in the game.
• The bell spire/Crystal lighthouse gets a boost in goods per NH chest tied to SS (you will notice a recurring theme very soon)
• Thrones gets a huge ranking points boost and a lesser increase in culture tied to MH levels and wonder levels
• Heroes forge gets an increase in orcs tied to SS
• Enars gets a big mana buff, tied to required culture and tourney score. At max level depending this could be anywhere from 4Mil to 20+Mil a week. A high amount of required culture is a little unknown especially with major hits to other wonders. For most players doing under 4K in tourney only expect a couple mil a week at a very high level.
• ETC gets a seeds buff tied to SS
• Sunset towers gets a seeds buff tied to SS
• Spire library and Tournament Arena get a ranking point increase tied to SS
• Dragon ark and Oracle get a goods increase tied to SS. Arks reward based on quests is similar to ToS but this is often felt to be a secondary boost, the RR is the key factor to build
• Maze of dark matter gets a nice mana increase tied to supply capacity
• Wonder benefits are front loaded so bulk of wonders get a buff in ability (some cases where first level [most wonders] or two are worse than current)
• New max level benefit for many wonders and a level 35 for MM / Sanc

Will take time to tell how good the above improvements are.

The bad

• Enars still has a broken shard every week - so many threads already why this is not a good benefit. With all the changes maybe switch it to CC?
• Tome of secrets is mixed as it gets a supply change based on supply capacity but is tied to mainline quests which players can do in a patchy way depending on chapter, so inconsistent supply and if at end tech then zero supply. A better more consistent mechanic is needed, perhaps similar to Enars with tournament
• Endless excavation relic reward are provided on mystical object instead of provinces. Like Tomes on the face of it these seems like a good change but mystical objects rely on crafting, something difficult for an early town to do at the time this wonder is received and even harder with the planned costs to wonders forcing a decision between crafting or levelling a wonder. The supplies for this wonder do not keep up well in late game so this might be disregarded in the future (often is now) as there is better options to spend the crafting resources on wonder in the future
• Shrine of Shrewdy shrooms is now the same as a dwarven bulwark for training size and adds less interest and strategic options. Changing the mechanic for predictability makes sense but will hurt some towns, maybe a little too much. Is it possible for a different mechanic for more variety in choices/decisions/approach?
• Are there potentially outlier scenarios where Enars is too powerful in its mana production? This is hard to guage as required culture in towns will have to adjust depending on if they built a sanc/MM and Watchtower and depending on tournament play. Predictability of result seems inconsistent with other wonder changes to have more predictability.
• Dragon Abbey mana per spell is tied to SS, which will negatively impact some players depending on scouting and SS research. Due to player impact have called this bad but I appreciate the more predictable mechanic and feel it is balanced by the buffs in other mana production wonders (if we can ever build/level them). Unsure on effect in earlier chapters
• Pyramid of purification sentient goods per orc is reduced a little, it may be offset by other sentient good increases but impact will be situational
• Thermal springs of youth culture was reduced, this used the same mechanic as thrones culture which got a buff, why was this one considered too powerful? With the reduction in the 2 main culture wonders it seems this one should have being buffed a bit as well. Trying to level 4 different wonders for culture is expensive (pre-change and much worse post-change) Note this may change with the patch coming
• Dragon Ark and Oracle of Fortune will be measured based on their ability to payback the resources invested which they never will, So will likely be considered a fairly useless wonder in the future.

The ugly

• The cost of levelling is using resources that are in too short a supply to level wonders in any respectable timeframe. They also appear to target towns with high inventory and moonstone sets (which also struggle with this) and crafting. Basically players have to pick which game mechanic they want to use as they wont be able to have both and that seems a shame as both are awesome mechanics. That is without even factoring in the impact on FA's to get vision vapour, this badge probably needs to be removed and replaced with something else as there will be a direct impact on availability to access these and to a lesser degree the wonder society badges (hard to say how tough they will be in the future due to capped research)
• The gap in ability of an older town with wonders already levelled compared to new towns will be significant. This will be a massive chasm of power imbalance in towns based on time playing.
• Possible solutions are lower values required in wonders, increase dramatically the supply options for these resources (increase numbers in spire and tourny would be simplest, maybe even oracle/dragon ark too), lower cost of crafting resources and add an additional level specific cost like basic goods for the relevant normal, sentient and ascended goods depending on chapter the wonders and good types commence. Or any combination
• Monastery/Sanctuary and Watchtower culture feels too harsh. One can concede the desire to reduce the power of these wonders but going from 40% of the requirement to roughly 5% (pre patch) feels too extreme and the wonders feel too weak compared to alternate event options that require minimal comparative effort to obtain. The patch might move these to a better value, current event buildings are better.
• The cost of levelling raises a very real concern that wonders will have their research filled but not be upgraded. The impact if this is the case is KP bars will be full (so inspiring meditation becomes useless), huge amounts of banked up kp for tech tree and new chapters. Inability to do event quests and FA badges requiring KP donation to wonders. Again will likely hurt newer smaller towns more
• New towns will need some specific wonder quests when they unlock wonders to teach them the value of the crafting resources in wonder levelling and ensuring they can do at least 1 wonder level. Early game quests requiring x wonders or x wonder levels need to be re-considered if they are achievable for those towns. One of my small towns cant do 1 of those and that is pre-change, not a hope post change with minimal CC, spell frags and RR (especially this one).
• New towns get the tech for wonders in ch 4 but dont start earning the resources to level them (spire) until ch5 and then only if they do spire to any amount. They can start crafting CC once the unlock tournament (Ch 4) but wont have the relics to make this consistently and may want to do some other spells anyway. Unless they are in a good fellowship getting enough tournament chests they wont even see RR for upgrading.

While a lot of towns complaining are said to be older towns and there is some truth to that there is a warning also. If older more established towns with experienced players and strong fellowships, tourny/spire performances cant keep up with these costs how are newer players in more casual fellowships and much smaller tourny/spire rewards supposed to?

There are some nice positives to the update but feels like a couple areas missed the mark, sadly by a lot.

edit: decided to copy to discord due to different users there. Sorry for the long read.