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    Your Elvenar Team

News from Discord - May Contain Info!

MichaelMichael

MichaelMichael

Day and Night Trader
Henroo said:
I'm not even sure if Royal Restorations will be as much of an issue as you think. You can now get RRs by selling old magic residence/workshops, and a number of expiring buildings like: Genie, Dwarven Armorer, Ferris Wheel Galore, Carting Library, and Goddess of Wishes. Over the last 5 years, I've used a LOT of these buildings. It would probably equal hundreds of Royal Restorations. Think of it this way: you get a Goddess of Wishes at the end of every event if you complete it fully. Now that is worth 2 extra RRs. It looks like fellowship adventures are going to give 2 Carting Libraries and 1 Ferris Wheel moving forward. So every FA is now worth 4 extra RRs. Winning a Dwarven Armorer in the spire is now worth 2 extra RRs. I do have doubts that these extra RRs will completely compensate for the new requirements to build and upgrade ancient wonders. But I think it will help more than most realize and will reduce the issue.
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You have got to be kidding. I just updated my Sanctuary to level 31 requiring 35 RR - where do you get those. I crafted them from plans and CCs from inventory (1 Plan = 8-10 RRs). Plans are harder to get than RRs - I get one per week due to being in a strong tourney fellowship along with a few RRs. I put up 10 combat buildings every two weeks so that is 5 more per week. Total production is about 15 per week (ignoring plans or 25 with them) Meanwhile the tourney generates about 650 KPs and 100 shards (1500 KPs in trade) for me a week - I do 50 provinces. Trading probably generates another 300-600KPs a week plus another 168 from the hours in a week.

I needed RRs for 5 shard based upgrades this week - it was a more than usual but those happen. Where do I or anyone ever get 75 or so RRs in a week. The answer is I can't, but I can generate enough KPs to need that many. The new system even for advanced players cannot generate enough RRs. For low level players, it is worse. As for spell fragments, I have 11 moonstone sets so that generates about 5,000 spell fragments a day or 35,000 a week Spire is about 5,000 a week. Just the Sanctuary upgrade was 31,000 spell fragments.. The growth in AWs in unsustainable due to both SF and RRs. The accumulation of KPs will soon bury me and the whole game with AWs no one can upgrade. Finding a place to put KP is the new problem once you complete the last chapter.

New idea: Join a fellowship with a high chapter player and get free KPs! They can't spend them any more!
 
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Deborah M

Deborah M

Oh Wise One
MichaelMichael said:
New idea: Join a fellowship with a high chapter player and get free KPs! They can't spend them any more!
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Huh? I still need to fill my AW research with KP. If I hit a time when I need to gather other resources, I will give them away OR just accumulate KP in the hope of a new chapter in the pipeline.
 
MichaelMichael

MichaelMichael

Day and Night Trader
Deborah M said:
Huh? I still need to fill my AW research with KP. If I hit a time when I need to gather other resources, I will give them away OR just accumulate KP in the hope of a new chapter in the pipeline
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You make my point. I am suggesting that the option of giving away KPs (as you suggested) will become the norm because of the shortage in SFs..
 
MichaelMichael

MichaelMichael

Day and Night Trader
Deborah M said:
OK but I still don't like the sound of being a target :(
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We are all targets, Inno is in the business of creating a game where clients willingly give them money. They do things that encourage us to pay them. We'd both prefer if those encouragements were gentle and perceived as fair but sometimes they get a bit more demanding. Then we complain and some of us leave.

BTW,I don't like this upgrade until and unless they mitigate it so I can get back to where I can continue to use KPs productively. I have accumulated about 2000 KPs that I am having difficulty using productively so far.
 
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Yavimaya

Yavimaya

Scroll-Keeper
Fayeanne said:
Not really since the timing is difficult to predict. I used to be able to leave a bunch of provinces with 7/8 encounters finished so that I could clear a province on demand to get extra relics for those quests. But I turn over the Vision Vapor orb once every two weeks or so, and certainly not something I can do on demand.
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This is very true...hmmm...
 
Mykan

Mykan

Oh Wise One
Edit: This was copied from the discord server under official announcements.

Ancient Wonders requirements – Why have they been changed?​

We have seen your feedback in the last few days about the new requirements (Combining Catalyst, Royal Restoration, and Spell Fragments) now needed in all Ancient Wonders. It is a big change; we understand it can be unsettling and generate frustration. This is why we now want to clarify a bit more why it happened. The main issue was that the old Ancient Wonders costs were balanced many years ago when no Tournaments were giving out many Relics every week. Since then, the Relics costs became trivial, and we started to ask for other resources to build new Ancient Wonders. But these resources also became easier and easier to get from Event Buildings, and Crafting. Again, the upgrade costs of Ancient Wonders became meaningless. And we could also see this in our data: the only appropriate challenge these buildings provided was the Research phase. With the new requirement we want to fix this issue for good, with resources that you can get at certain places in the game and are independent from your progress through the chapters.
It is also a challenge that is now more predictable for you. You can work towards it beforehand since we plan to keep this cost structure for all future Ancient Wonders.

Does it take longer to upgrade your Ancient Wonders?​

With the new requirements, on average and based on the data we have from the game, it doesn’t take longer to max out an Ancient Wonder than it did before. It might take longer for the players that in the past were able to max them out in a few weeks (leveraging some imbalances in the game, which are now fixed with these new requirements). Rushing through Ancient Wonders was never meant to be the norm, this feature is meant to be a long-term goal and to require time, and rewards participation in other Elvenar activities, such as Tournament and Spire.

We have also rebalanced their effects, and in most cases made them stronger than before as you advance in the game. This was done to make them even more appealing and worth the time investment. To give just one example, as you voiced many times that for higher chapters, Mana is often one of the most needed resources. With the improved Mana-related Ancient Wonders you can clearly see how much more helpful they are – and will be in all future chapters. We see your feedback about the requirements and understand this is a relevant change for many of you. It is ok to not be happy and voice your concerns, we truly appreciate your input. Your feedback was also already considered when defining the requirements. Initially these new requirements were tested in Chapter 21. In the last update, when we expanded them to all Ancient Wonders, we reduced them by 50% following feedback from players in that Chapter. Just consider we are not planning to further change those requirements at the moment. With the introduction of the possibility to get Combining Catalysts and sometimes even Royal Restoration when selling non-chapter related buildings you no longer need, you now have more options to get the upgrade resources for Ancient Wonders steadily over time.

Looking ahead​

Thanks for your continued support, we understand not all changes are easy to accept and we’ll keep monitoring your feedback.
We all have one single objective, improve Elvenar to let it last as long as possible. For the Ancient Wonders, this means to keep their challenge, but also the power of their effects in balance – no matter how many more chapters we add in the future. With your ongoing support, we are getting there together.
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getmomo

Well-Known Member
And on top of barely ever getting to build/upgrade ancient wonders, I can barely upgrade any regular or magic buildings that require RR's to upgrade making that part of the game much more difficult. I can't craft much anymore so I loose out on pet food and and troop buffs so now tournament and spire are much harder. I can't craft time boosters anymore so this further slows my spire and building upgrades. I will rarely ever get the mystical object since I can't craft anymore if I want to upgrade my ancient wonders. So you want ancient wonders to be more difficult to upgrade as you think they were too easy, but what about all the other aspects of the game which became much more difficult now? Then you kinda insult by saying we fixed it by giving us 2 CC when we sell a building. But we were already disenchanting many buildings for spell frags. So now if we want more CC's it's at the expense of spell frags. It really doesn't seem like a lot of though was put into these changes, or in trying to fix the problem since these bad changes were implemented.
 
Pheryll

Pheryll

Set Designer
Mykan said:

Ancient Wonders requirements – Why have they been changed?​

Click to expand...

The basic gist.
1) AWs need to be more challenging to level
2) People are dumping too much KP into them
3) A moderate use of KP in wonders should be plenty of time to accrue the needed SF, CC, and RR.
4) The game was previously imbalanced to allow rushing through wonder levels.

So my question is, where is an alternative KP dump?
 
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Hob-nob

Member
They opened up the runeshards as an alternative way to fill wonders (and of course if you've been playing a while you had hundreds) and now they're saying the wonders are filling too fast. What did they expect? Sounds to me like someone doesn't know what they're doing.
 
MichaelMichael

MichaelMichael

Day and Night Trader
Mykan said:
on average and based on the data we have from the game., it doesn’t take longer to max out an Ancient Wonder than it did before.

... It might take longer for the players that in the past were able to max them out in a few weeks
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Am I the only one, or does it seem like Mykan is speaking out both sides of his mouth?

The average player never maxes any wonders. If it never happens, that means somewhat more than the current age of the game. As for maxing a wonder in a few weeks, I don't know anyone that does that. Let't talk about players that are successful and dedicated and work the spire for KPs. I personally generate about 2,000 KPs a week mostly from the Tourney by completing 50 provinces. I typically finish in the top 15-20 players each week.

... a few is generally agreed to be 2-5 in most contexts. So let's consider 5 (10,000 KP) what does that amount to for say for Needles, one of the most common AW to be maxed. You need about 8,000 KPs to gain the first 20 levels and about 16,000 to complete the last 15 so that is 12 weeks for the KPs which in the old scheme were pacing. Clearly that is more than a few week. So I at least, am not the defined target of who Inno wanted to punish. Now let's consider the new schema to see how much time this new plan takes.580,000 SF and 140 RRs. I am in a good but not great fellowship. I now no longer update anything so I get including my one plan a week (worth 8-10 RRs) about 15 RRs a week working out to about the same time, actually a bit less than 12 weeks. Next up is Spell Fragments, this is where the analysis fails. The only source is the Spire which might generate 20,000 SF a week. So I need 580,000 - that should only take 29 weeks- that is the new game.

I love their statement :"and based on the data we have from the game." Well, right now inventories of SF were significant and are being liquidated as is a build up of buildings and spell and anything else that can be disenchanted. This is the new game Inno has defined for us.
 
JackofShadows

JackofShadows

Active Member
It sounds to me like they wanted to make it harder for a Fellowship to accelerate a new player's AWs.

It used to be that the FS could dump KP to fill the bar, and then do lopsided trades to the new player to give them any necessary goods for the upgrades. By the time AWs were opened and the first one built, the player was usually well past the initial gold/supplies chokepoint, and they'd have accumulated plenty of relics from doing provinces.

So your new cities were getting their AWs boosted to 4 VERY quickly, and only halting then while the player gathered enough runes to upgrade them - and then the circus started again.

Now - while the FS can still dump KP and goods to the new player, there's no way to give them SFs and CCs or RRs - which are HUGELY limited until Crafting and Spire get unlocked. So the new player's AWs will sit at 1-3 until chapter V - and then they'll be on the catch-up merry-go-round.

NB: GA and ToS cost 1 CC and 1K SF to place initially - but after that, AWs also cost 5 RR to PLACE.
 

BrinDarby

Well-Known Member
JackofShadows said:
It sounds to me like they wanted to make it harder for a Fellowship to accelerate a new player's AWs.
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Not new players, this time they took a swipe @ endgame,
or close to it, players.... the collateral damage was to everyone
..... ohh and alot of the underpinnings of the game itself.

New mgmt is just as clueless as old mgmt was, on what exactly
ya do, with a market saturated game, with core players who
have been around from day 1 and have 1 of everything basically.
(or 2 or 3 or many) or they're just making the balance sheet
look better so they can flip the company.

I know why they , say , they did it. I might even agree some
rebalancing was need'd, what boggles the mind is.... why
they did it how they did it.

( ohh and it should never............... hey Inno, Never cost
upgrade materials to build something in the 1st place :oops: )
 
Fayeanne

Fayeanne

Well-Known Member
The main issue was that the old Ancient Wonders costs were balanced many years ago when no Tournaments were giving out many Relics every week.
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So they went from not anticipating that people would use Tournaments to level their Ancient Wonders...to requiring that people use Tournaments to level their Ancient Wonders.
 

AussieChick

Active Member
MaidenFair

MaidenFair

Chef - Head Philologist
MichaelMichael said:
The average player never maxes any wonders.
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I highly doubt I count as an average player, but I am certainly not a top-end player either (ch. 15, low ranking score, only ever spent money once, for a Stash Outpost in each of my two worlds during the Astral Phoenix event), and I have 5 wonders at lvl 30 and several others in the 20s, from roughly 2.5 years playing. Clearly, they don't want that to be possible going forward.
MichaelMichael said:
.... As for maxing a wonder in a few weeks, I don't know anyone that does that.
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*coughs* I'm afraid I'm one of the players they were targeting with that statement. I took my Lighthouse of Good Neighborhood from level 1 to 30 in 7-8 weeks, while also upgrading levels on some other wonders and progressing in the tech tree, and I could have done it faster if I weren't trying to keep a decent buffer of KP instants in reserve.
 
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