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[crackie]

I assume the EN pop-up announcement was more in line with the international support team simply being supportive of their players as much as they are allowed to do so right now, more than any other motive or behavior.
I thought it was a nice and helpful gesture on their part and the players seem delighted to see it, as well. After all, the forums are still active and open for now.
The more folks that know about the forums and see the petitions on each forum, the more we can show how important and valuable these forums are for everyone.
It's gotta be a tough situation for the mods and cms to be in right now and it's not their fault that our beloved forums are (potentially?) being closed down at the end of the year.
It would be lovely if all of the forums were as open and friendly right now in regards to the mods interactions with the player base(s) . I totally understand that it's an awkward time for them though.
Everyone is out here in no-man's-land, not knowing what will happen in a month or so.

I have seen screenshots of discord setup. EN has their whopping three servers each getting their own channel at root level. US, with their 7 servers, get them all bundled into one channel with 7 subsections. Not that I understand what people have to talk about at a server specific level outside recruiting to need these channels if there is already a separate recruiting section, but why aren’t EN’s 3 little servers tucked into one channel too? Or why aren’t the 7 US servers getting their own channel at root level like EN? If 7 is too spammy, then why isn’t 3 EN ones not spammy for people who have no need of EN channels? Yeah, we get it. EN is the crown jewel and US is the stepchild. They only ignored us for practically a year while we didn’t have a captain.

We just got the Ask Dev bugle but no forum announcement. *If* they decide to keep a forum and it’s the EN forum, let’s say I won’t be surprised and I’ll still call it a major loss. Some of us have EN accounts but there is a reason why we are all here and not there. Yes, some of these decisions are made above the CM level. However, there are still consequences to treating one of your largest markets as an afterthought. Like I don’t know which business school would advocate sacrificing the larger market all the time and expect the better outcome.

 

[Silver Lady]

@BrinDarby @Lelanya

I’m good with either the proper spelling or our simplified American spelling. Add all the “u” you want and even change our “z” to “s”, just keep our US forum open! Pretty please with sugar on top!

 

[FaunWillow]

I have seen screenshots of discord setup. EN has their whopping three servers each getting their own channel at root level. US, with their 7 servers, get them all bundled into one channel with 7 subsections. Not that I understand what people have to talk about at a server specific level outside recruiting to need these channels if there is already a separate recruiting section, but why aren’t EN’s 3 little servers tucked into one channel too? Or why aren’t the 7 US servers getting their own channel at root level like EN? If 7 is too spammy, then why isn’t 3 EN ones not spammy for people who have no need of EN channels? Yeah, we get it. EN is the crown jewel and US is the stepchild. They only ignored us for practically a year while we didn’t have a captain.

We just got the Ask Dev bugle but no forum announcement. *If* they decide to keep a forum and it’s the EN forum, let’s say I won’t be surprised and I’ll still call it a major loss. Some of us have EN accounts but there is a reason why we are all here and not there. Yes, some of these decisions are made above the CM level. However, there are still consequences to treating one of your largest markets as an afterthought. Like I don’t know which business school would advocate sacrificing the larger market all the time and expect the better outcome.

So, I see that there are tensions and past issues being brought up here. I'm not dipping into those mucky waters, myself!
I hate to see any Elvenar market against each other though.

For the Discord layout, it's up to each CM how to do their own markets...so I don't think this is a "we're better than you" on either the EN or US CM's part. It's just the way they each set up their own channels... and yeah, we really don't need to have individual server threads but maybe this is something they are simply trying out for now. *shrugs*
Same with some of the in-game announcements. Each Support Team can choose what they'd like to do to help their communities.
Obvs, some of the bugle announcements are from the devs themselves, like the one we all saw today for the Ask a Dev announcement for Discord.
I didn't find the EN announcement yesterday offensive or in any way a way to disregard the US side. It was simply their own team keeping busy and active within their own market. That has nothing to do with the US side. The team here can send out whatever they want too.

Believe me, I'm with everyone (and have stated it time and time again on several forums) to keep the forums. Discord has its value with quick chats but not to contain all of the years of information that everyone has already created here, on the forums. It makes no sense to only have a chat site as a forum for Elvenar.

 

[Sathiru]

Simaril, a member of the Elvenar team has posted why the forums are closing. Spoilered due to length:

Spoiler: Forums closing

The reasoning behind this was simply down to the waning of the Forums, as over time fewer and fewer players have joined and more and more players simply stopped posting and engaging here. Players have also petitioned hugely to get Elvenar onto Discord as their preferred platform of choice and have refused to join the Forum for a myriad of reasons.

From my side of things, since I landed here in 2019, I have been trying to stop this trend and had changed several things on our server, not least the way the in-game news is used. As this decrease was seen, I made a point to use this fabulous tool to boost participation by advertising some of our more important announcements, competitions and at times some threads to reach all of our players and not only spread game awareness but Forum awareness.

In the same vein the support team has also become very active in this; linking tickets to the Forum whenever possible to also spread awareness to players of the discussions, announcements, new releases, competitions etc: to encourage registration.

With the arrival of Discord this means our little team is stretched providing customer service across support, Discord and the Forum. Hence we are actively recruiting to boost our numbers (I know I am shamelessly mentioning this here as I sit looking at the current applications).

Forum competitions also required players to be registered from 2019, in a bid to also encourage more than competition participation here.

At the end of 2020 we changed the Forum to allow player accounts and Forum accounts to be linked in a security measure, announcement is here since then the numbers decreased further as some ''players'' posting here had never played on the server, so could therefore not link their account.

Yes, we can see the guest numbers here, those people who pop in but have never registered to take part here; yes we understand they are getting information from here; but no we don't understand why they simply do not register to be a part of the fabulous Forum family and take part.

Currently we are seeing far more activity on Discord in the last few weeks, than we have on the Forums in over a year, yes we realise it is a new shiny thing and the novelty may wear off.

However, we are also starting to see a slight upsurge here on this Forum (I cannot speak for the others). Its not huge by any means, and it is limited to very few threads and topics. But its seen.

Whether this will be enough to make any changes to the initial announcement remains to be seen. But statistics are playing a very important role here.

I hope this helps a little, although I have been covering this for a few weeks, it has not all be laid out in one space like now.

And their response to the in game link to the forum being removed/demographics of the playerbase:

Spoiler: In game link to forum/demographic

The link removal was was done due to the fact that Discord will be used for all official announcements now, especially given that there are far more players registered there than on the Forums already. It would have been a bad move for us to then not provide a link to the platform where these are, hence Discord replaced the Forum link from the game.

As you are probably aware we have a social media presence across Facebook, Instagram, YouTube and X (formerly Twitter) that has helped us to provide a multiple choice of platforms for our players to engage with us. Discord is no different in this to the rest, as all are third party sites with their own guidelines that have happily worked for years.

Age groups do not necessarily come into this, as all platforms have a great mix of ages participating; no one has a set pattern where Elvenar is concerned as our players ages are extremely diverse ranging from our youngest possible players at 16 up the ages to some in their late 80's and even 90's.

Given how up in the air things seem to be, I thought this should be shared for those who don't visit the International forum.

 

[actualfantasy]

Let this be for real!!! :} My hopes are up! I don't take negative messages about this Forum well!!

 

[Lelanya]

Yeah I think that as far as the Discord layout, @crackie, what I see is that the US CMs have more experience running in Discord and set up a more efficient area, while the EN CM and her staff just added as they saw fit and didn't realize how it would play out. They are scrapping hard behind the scenes to retain the official English language Forum. Hard to say how it's going to go.

Folks please. There will be Devs online on Discord on Tuesday, this is your chance to be heard! Create a note in Ask the Devs, tell them why this Community is the best.

 

[Silver Lady]

There will be Devs online on Discord on Tuesday, this is your chance to be heard! Create a note in Ask the Devs, tell them why this Community is the best.

The trouble with that is you have to have a Discord account first.

 

[BrinDarby]

The trouble with that is you have to have a Discord account first

Maybee, just like 1-2 ppl are passing on to us here,
announcements from Discord, perhaps we should
create a question thread here, then someone can do
the reverse, and take it to discord on our behalf.

 

[mucksterme]

Folks please. There will be Devs online on Discord on Tuesday, this is your chance to be heard! Create a note in Ask the Devs, tell them why this Community is the best.

Yes folks.
By all means register so you can give your opinion.
Then they can say, "Look how many people joined, obviously they love this."

A better idea would be to get people to unsubscribe to that place.

1. Go to the user settings in the mobile or desktop app.
2. In the mobile app, select “My Account”; in the web app, you are already on the correct page.
3. Scroll to the bottom of the page and click on “Delete account”.
4. Confirm by entering your password.

 

[crackie]

Simaril, a member of the Elvenar team has posted why the forums are closing. Spoilered due to length:

So, I see that there are tensions and past issues being brought up here. I'm not dipping into those mucky waters, myself!

Players: Quit killing the community. People are already mad we’ve been neglected for almost a year. They are leaving. Stop doing stupid things and making it worse before there’s no one left!
Inno: Hold my beer…<announces shutdown of forums>
Players: That’s it. We’ve had it! We are out of here…
Inno: Well the numbers show there has been a trend of decreasing traffic to the forum.

<facepalm>

You know that meme of the guy on the blue bike who pokes a stick into his front wheel and then blames the stick (or whatever that stick symbolizes) for causing his own fall? Yeah, that’s what’s been playing out for awhile. And that was happening before the discord announcement. That announcement only poured gas into an existing fire and salted open wounds. I don’t have access to the numbers, but I’ve watched it happen in real time. People have said their goodbyes and told me they’re done. Like, they’ve literally told me why they are leaving! There is no guesswork in trying to interpret the trend of numbers. They told me! I am simply boots on the ground with a pulse on the community and eyes to see with front row seats to a train wreck.

There is no sugar coating it. Players can tell the difference in their user experience between a Golden Age where the community is being build up versus a Reign of Terror where it’s getting burned to the ground. They know what’s an enjoyable experience and what isn’t. Simple as that! It’s not going to improve until we address the fact they’re the ones that have been torching the community themselves and actively driving people away with their bad decisions and actions. Players can only do so much in these situations and one of them is to show their disapproval by voting with their departure, which they have, but apparently not enough to raise any alarms except among fellow players. Now we have another wave leaving/already left thanks to Discord. Remember, critical mass goes both ways. It can drive more people to a place for it to take off or enough people can leave a place for it to no longer be worthwhile to stay. Discord hasn’t reached critical mass yet for people to want to sign up en masse and now forum people are pissed and leaving so we are bleeding on both ends. The question is what age are we entering next under current new leadership? I am hoping it’s Reconstruction and not Dark Ages. There is no coming back from the Dark Ages. Unfortunately for the current US admins, their predecessors have already spent people’s patience, good will, and tolerance. Not their fault, but still the reality of the environment they’ve inherited.

 

[BrinDarby]

By all means register so you can give your opinion.
Then they can say, "Look how many people joined, obviously they love this."

Just like (any company) starts selling "online only" @ stupid
prices, but this allows them to say, see how many ppl are
using our (crappy) website, its sooo popular, lets expand it.

A better idea would be to get people to unsubscribe to that place.

hahahahahahaha

They know what’s an enjoyable experience and what isn’t. Simple as that!

[ mic drop ]

 

[Sathiru]

Players: Quit killing the community. People are already mad we’ve been neglected for almost a year. They are leaving. Stop doing stupid things and making it worse before there’s no one left!
Inno: Hold my beer…<announces shutdown of forums>
Players: That’s it. We’ve had it! We are out of here…
Inno: Well the numbers show there has been a trend of decreasing traffic to the forum.

<facepalm>

You know that meme of the guy on the blue bike who pokes a stick into his front wheel and then blames the stick (or whatever that stick symbolizes) for causing his own fall? Yeah, that’s what’s been playing out for awhile. And that was happening before the discord announcement. That announcement only poured gas into an existing fire and salted open wounds. I don’t have access to the numbers, but I’ve watched it happen in real time. People have said their goodbyes and told me they’re done. Like, they’ve literally told me why they are leaving! There is no guesswork in trying to interpret the trend of numbers. They told me! I am simply boots on the ground with a pulse on the community and eyes to see with front row seats to a train wreck.

There is no sugar coating it. Players can tell the difference in their user experience between a Golden Age where the community is being build up versus a Reign of Terror where it’s getting burned to the ground. They know what’s an enjoyable experience and what isn’t. Simple as that! It’s not going to improve until we address the fact they’re the ones that have been torching the community themselves and actively driving people away with their bad decisions and actions. Players can only do so much in these situations and one of them is to show their disapproval by voting with their departure, which they have, but apparently not enough to raise any alarms except among fellow players. Now we have another wave leaving/already left thanks to Discord. Remember, critical mass goes both ways. It can drive more people to a place for it to take off or enough people can leave a place for it to no longer be worthwhile to stay. Discord hasn’t reached critical mass yet for people to want to sign up en masse and now forum people are pissed and leaving so we are bleeding on both ends. The question is what age are we entering next under current new leadership? I am hoping it’s Reconstruction and not Dark Ages. There is no coming back from the Dark Ages. Unfortunately for the current US admins, their predecessors have already spent people’s patience, good will, and tolerance. Not their fault, but still the reality of the environment they’ve inherited.

I will say Simaril (and they have mentioned others) do seem to genuinely want the forums to stay, and have been pushing for that behind the scenes.

But otherwise, you hit the nail on the head. Even with the recent QoL improvements (many of which have been asked for years, some way back in 2016/17!), there's this "one step forward, two steps back" with Inno. Events are a prime example: Quests which penalise players for playing the game (End chapter? Sorry, you have to scout OR complete a province) are removed, then back, removed, then back...

Closing the forums and creating a Discord server seems to be Inno looking to save pennies, and a woeful misunderstanding of what people were requesting: In Game World Chat, not an external service that they need to sign up for. There are numerous things they could be implementing to help retain and improve the player experience, but since they couldn't be bothered with a basic fighting tutorial despite revamping the early tech tree/quest line...

I could go on, but it's so frustrating to see one good thing implemented, only for them to go backwards in nearly all other areas.

 

[Darielle]

Players: Quit killing the community. People are already mad we’ve been neglected for almost a year. They are leaving. Stop doing stupid things and making it worse before there’s no one left!
Inno: Hold my beer…<announces shutdown of forums>
Players: That’s it. We’ve had it! We are out of here…
Inno: Well the numbers show there has been a trend of decreasing traffic to the forum.

<facepalm>

You know that meme of the guy on the blue bike who pokes a stick into his front wheel and then blames the stick (or whatever that stick symbolizes) for causing his own fall? Yeah, that’s what’s been playing out for awhile. And that was happening before the discord announcement. That announcement only poured gas into an existing fire and salted open wounds. I don’t have access to the numbers, but I’ve watched it happen in real time. People have said their goodbyes and told me they’re done. Like, they’ve literally told me why they are leaving! There is no guesswork in trying to interpret the trend of numbers. They told me! I am simply boots on the ground with a pulse on the community and eyes to see with front row seats to a train wreck.

There is no sugar coating it. Players can tell the difference in their user experience between a Golden Age where the community is being build up versus a Reign of Terror where it’s getting burned to the ground. They know what’s an enjoyable experience and what isn’t. Simple as that! It’s not going to improve until we address the fact they’re the ones that have been torching the community themselves and actively driving people away with their bad decisions and actions. Players can only do so much in these situations and one of them is to show their disapproval by voting with their departure, which they have, but apparently not enough to raise any alarms except among fellow players. Now we have another wave leaving/already left thanks to Discord. Remember, critical mass goes both ways. It can drive more people to a place for it to take off or enough people can leave a place for it to no longer be worthwhile to stay. Discord hasn’t reached critical mass yet for people to want to sign up en masse and now forum people are pissed and leaving so we are bleeding on both ends. The question is what age are we entering next under current new leadership? I am hoping it’s Reconstruction and not Dark Ages. There is no coming back from the Dark Ages. Unfortunately for the current US admins, their predecessors have already spent people’s patience, good will, and tolerance. Not their fault, but still the reality of the environment they’ve inherited.

Amen, Crackie. I have a wonderful team of players in my fellowship, and we have a lot of heart and camaraderie. We care about each other. But since Inno is determined to destroy the game and move on to newer and bigger bags of silver, I am seriously thinking about stepping down as archmage and eventually leaving. Not right away. I need to get us through the next FA and then think more about it. I first started playing in 2019 and most of my time in Elvenar has been spent in Thornwood. I would be surprised if there has been a single day where I haven't logged in at least 5x. It's gut wrenching to even think about leaving. If you had asked me 6 months ago if I would ever do so, I would have told you they'd have to rip it from my cold dead hands. Now, I've changed, and I'm saddened by it.

Or rather, Inno's changed. They've been bought out by venture capitalists, who always drill into the heart of a business, hollow out its shell and then throw it away. It's happened far too many times in the past. Everything is glitchy now. I hope that no one is paying for their ads in the hobby room. Every single time I click on them, I get a box with an X in it ... nothing else. I do get the prize, so it doesn't hurt me, but who is paying for the ad? That's been going on for a week. The event currency around the city now gets stuck there after you collect it. It never goes away until you refresh the game. That never happened years ago. The Beta FA was a fiasco and now they're going through it AGAIN? Are they crazy? Cutting down on devs to save money always has a negative effect in terms of glitches. And the new tech tree is utterly ridiculous and very badly thought out. Cutting down on game designers has its consequences as well ... and all designers should PLAY Elvenar and NOT with unlimited diamonds and other resources. You can't test a game and its effects on the little guy when you have unlimited resources, and I've yet to see a screen shot from a dev with low resources. They just don't think things through. I can remember a time when devs actually were addicted to Elvenar. They've moved on to other games. Everything's changed.

 

[BrinDarby]

I read the comments, leave some of mine ..... I even
just now tried to start the Q thread, ya know.....uhhhh
News From the Forum : May contain Questions ......
add a bit of humor to this place, a dig on the News
from Discord thread....... lolol.... ya know where we could
add questions to be fwd'd to the discord Q&A....

I just couldn't do it, just like Darielle I think Inno finally
broke me too..... Is there a point to it all, anymore ???

 

[CrabbyClaws]

I don't like to post. I am somewhat witty in person, but not so much when writing. The thing is, I don't NEED to post. I can find whatever information or help I need simply by searching the forum. I don't know who is responsible for the decision to close the forum but I do know that they have no clue at all about how necessary and fantastic the forum is. I really feel for any new players joining after the forum closes. They will miss out on so much.

**a thousand thank yous, Crackie, for your guide to fighting (found via the forum); I love to manual fight and it's been so helpful.

 

[Silver Lady]

If you love the forum and haven’t already done so please post in this thread HERE

 

[Ariel Greensleeves]

My computer won't allow me to "update" discord. So even if I wanted to, I can't use it. I miss the forum format

 

[Darielle]

My computer won't allow me to "update" discord. So even if I wanted to, I can't use it. I miss the forum format

And I won't use it, period. I don't need more social media in my life. I had enough of spending all my time on social media ... not getting into that trap again. I remember the days of saying I'm going to spend 15 minutes and then start working, and two hours later thinking, "Omg, I don't have my work ready and it's due!" No more.

 

[Lelanya]

Lol but Discord isn't the scrolling around, lost in memes or videos kind of place; at least none of the servers I have joined, are those things. You must have confused Discord with Tiktok, just saying. I wouldn't stoop, waste my time that way, I left FB when it turned into that. I get my news from CBC, like all good Canadians (paid for by my tax dollars, might as well).

 

[Black watch]

I can't access Discord because my computer's too old to upgrade my OS... and I'm not buying another computer when this one is a monster, my server and perfectly useable in every way I need.
I'll be shifting over to Linux soon enough, but this forum is perfect for information seekers regarding the game.
Go ahead and have Discord for those who want a more social platform, but for pure information on gameplay, this is necessary.
INNO, stop doing your best to kill your game.
As AM in a top 15 clan, I've been watching players leave as my neighborhood shrinks every month. I don't know what your goal is, but you need to fire whoever is in charge. Get someone who actually PLAYS this game at the end-game level.
Where's Soggy, maybe he can talk some sense int- oOh, yeah... never mind.