One last gripe...cross tier trades

[Smooper]

Cross tier trades have always annoyed me but now I loathe them. Things are fine in my Fely world. I have a good fellowship and go a military route there. Goods aren't needed often and urgently there. My ch. 5 catering city in Harandar is a different story. Don't make a huge amount of goods use them quickly in tournament, conquering provinces after scouting and in Spire. Need quick turnaround and my fellowship is lower level cities who are not the most knowledgable. Many players do not have balanced manufactories.

My trade screen for the neighborhood is also embarrassing. Tier 3 goods offerered in 90% of the trades. I run a balanced city with 12 tier 1, 4 tier 2 and 3 tier 3 manus. I need all the unboosted goods but mainly tier 1 since it is the least upgraded due to tech of my goods. I do not need tier 3 goods for my marble or silk trades. I have enjoyed playing in my young fellowship and helping them but now my game is being restricted because I can't get into the laboratory in the spire for want of goods.

Why is this imbalance of goods not addressed by the quests or game instructions or something? It is untenable to continue to ask for tier 1 or 2 goods while trading tier 3 when nobody needs it. I know this is an old rant but it really hits home on a parked ch. 5 city.

 

[Katwick]

Why is this imbalance of goods not addressed by the quests or game instructions or something? It is untenable to continue to ask for tier 1 or 2 goods while trading tier 3 when nobody needs it. I know this is an old rant but it really hits home on a parked ch. 5 city.

I've found that if you post your OWN offers for what you want, they'll be picked up. Here's the spread that I use.

1. My standard bundle has 54 mixed trades, with the default 2 star amounts.
   4*(1:1.5:2.25) = (4:6:9), but it’s easier to think in Quantites rather than Values
   ( Just knock off a zero and click 6 icons, the computer does the two star math)

Tx.1 Offer Boosted	Then Demand Unboosted	T1.2	T1.3	T2,2	T2.3	T3,2	T3.3
T1	9000 900 90	9000 900 90	9000 900 90	6000 600 60	6000 600 60	4000 400 40	4000 400 40
T2	6000 600 60	9000 900 90	9000 900 90	6000 600 60	6000 600 60	4000 400 40	4000 400 40
T3	4000 400 40	9000 900 90	9000 900 90	6000 600 60	6000 600 60	4000 400 40	4000 400 40

Along with the two stars, the Cross-Trade ratios are obvious, and two star trades move just as fast as 3 star trades.

 

[Smooper]

I was stalled in the Spire on Friday for lack of planks. I went to trader and nobody was offering planks. I posted my own trades but they took over 2 hours to get accepted on the Spire ended while I was stuck in the first encounters of the lab. I am trying to test my city for getting to the top of the Spire and I am finding goods and supplies to be the difficult part of my catering.

 

[BrinDarby]

I know this is an old rant but it really hits home on a parked ch. 5 city.

I have (2) Inno moved up to CH5, and (2) CH6 cities.
I have never had your problem. If you have to, put up
balancing trades every darn time you collect stuff, or
use a chunk up if you have to.

if you're a CH5 city, I'm guessing you can put up ohhhh,
1k-3k trades, because you're prolly making 6k-10k each
time you collect 3hr manus. Your neighborhood traders
alone should be able to absorb those easily, and what
they don't take, your FS can catch.

My 2 CH5 cities overproduce T1/T2, make no T3. I trade
up, not down like 90% of most ppl.... so my offers are
selling T1/T2, asking for T3 and get taken quickly ( thats
once a month when I upsell stuff )

 

[Mighty Peach]

I don't offer any cross tier trades in my progression city which is currently in chapter 8. My manufactories are 6:4:4 which provides a perfectly balanced amount of goods for what I need.

And you are correct. It's usually t3 goods which are offered for t2/t1 in cross tier trades. People tend to overestimate how much t3 they really need.

 

[Smooper]

I have (2) Inno moved up to CH5, and (2) CH6 cities.
I have never had your problem. If you have to, put up
balancing trades every darn time you collect stuff, or
use a chunk up if you have to.

if you're a CH5 city, I'm guessing you can put up ohhhh,
1k-3k trades, because you're prolly making 6k-10k each
time you collect 3hr manus. Your neighborhood traders
alone should be able to absorb those easily, and what
they don't take, your FS can catch.

My 2 CH5 cities overproduce T1/T2, make no T3. I trade
up, not down like 90% of most ppl.... so my offers are
selling T1/T2, asking for T3 and get taken quickly ( thats
once a month when I upsell stuff )

I thought about eliminating or reducing to 1 my tier 3 manufactories because I can get the tier 3 goods anytime i look at the trader. I am trying to liquidate the goods as soon as they come in so I will be much more balanced without a surplus of my bonus good.

 

[BrinDarby]

People tend to overestimate how much t3 they really need.

I think its starting in CH7, pretty much most event bldgs,
unless giving orcs/mana/seeds.... just give T3. Since Inno
wants to speed us to CH5, that means the # of event bldgs
most ppl will accumulate, will be T3....... duhh that changes
prolly once ya get to sentient/ascended goods, iono....
but if we're talking basic goods.... most ppl have too much
T3. Remember below CH5, those players won't need T3
yet for negociating, so why would they sell off T1/T2, yet
they are the ones that still have event bldgs giving T1/T2.

this all leads to the '22 and beyond glut of T3 ...

 

[Lelanya]

They switch to mana at chapter 9, after tier3

 

[Darielle]

We allow cross tiers in Thornwood, but only if they are three star trades. And it's ALWAYS t3 offered for t1 or sometimes t2. Space wise, it's more efficient to build t3s and say the hell with your neighbors, who must then build more t1s. For example, my planks factory gives me about 350 per square in 3 hours. My dust gives me about 300 per square in 3 hours. But if I sell those t3 in a 2 star crosstrade, I can get what, double or more? (momentary brain freeze, mea culpa.) And it's considered a "fair" trade? It AIN'T! I know they're taking into account the original cost to make the goods, but it still isn't fair.

Selfish people think to themselves, "Hmm, I can save on space if I just have t3 factories (or lots of event buildings) and sell those for t1s. I'll make out like a bandit and screw everyone else!" (Okay, they don't think that last part, but only because they are in "me" mode and not thinking of the big picture.)

Which is the reason we only allow 3 star cross trades, and even that is a big concession. I can understand why some fellowships ban them.

 

[Genefer]

I agree - the cross-tier trades are out of control, and they are always lowest demand for the highest demand Goods.

The problem with the conversion for the 2-star trade is it disregards a player's need to produce the T1 for their own use in effect doubling the number of productions to acquire the T3 the player needs when the only options are cross-tier trades - the burden is really 4.5:1 in favor of the T3 Cross Tier Trader

Perhaps if the Trader was worldwide this would not be such an issue but when all we have is to rely on neighbors & fellowships for trading partners it is a hardship for a large portion of players - especially with the issues with city mapping.


On city factory balance - I think a balanced city - excluding any other sources of Standard Goods - can be modeled on the 1:1.5:2.25 Trader conversion.

1 T3 -> 2 T2 -> 3 T1
2 T3 -> 3 T2 -> 5 T1
3 T3 -> 5 T2 -> 7 T1
4 T3 -> 6 T2 -> 9 T1

Of course, if the only option for acquiring the non-boost T3 needed are T3 for T1 .... the factory tier ratio will be quite different - such as 3:5:14

Depending on any goods acquired through Culture or Ancient Wonders reduce the number of factories if possible - by the tier - in the lower chapters many culture buildings provide T3 - with enough the player could reduce the number of T3 factories ....


I think new players place the cross-tier trades at a higher frequency, because they are still trying to find the balance based on the games supply & demand model. I think players that post T3 C-TTs in the 10s or thousands+ do it intentionally because it saves them production time.

I don't think Elvenar plans to address this issue which leaves the burden on the players to accept them and then quit from the frustration or everyone boycott the high chapter Cross-tier players that commit trader predation which almost always disadvantages low chapter cities.

I do not accept them if the offer requires over 3000 T1 or T2 and not even those if the player has more than 3 of the same offers posted.

 

[getmomo]

I'm fine with cross tier trades and happily accept them as long as they are 3 star.

 

[Myne]

I was stalled in the Spire on Friday for lack of planks. I went to trader and nobody was offering planks. I posted my own trades but they took over 2 hours to get accepted on the Spire ended while I was stuck in the first encounters of the lab. I am trying to test my city for getting to the top of the Spire and I am finding goods and supplies to be the difficult part of my catering.

My fellowship on Harandar is pretty awesome, if someone did as you did and needed planks to finish tourney all they would have had to do is post a message in chat. In an urgent situation anyone would have picked them up. I do not post those crosstrades you talk about, but some of my fellowship does. I have made it widely known that the others are under NO obligation to take them. It was a while back that INNO did that. There was a post regarding the situation, but INNO did nothing. Several of us knew this would happen. You can search it up on here if you like.
Believe it or not, Harandar is not as bad as Elcysandir. A "normal" trade over there is picked up almost immediately. I agree that Harandar is closely following that situation. I post all my own trades due to that.
Also consider going through the buildings you have to look for ones that produce t1 and t2 goods as they can help some.

 

[LordVorKon]

I wish it was just cross-tier. I have five pages just in standard goods of nonsense like this:

Similar behavior in sentient goods, although different accounts.
I really wish it was not against forum rules to call out these people by name, because IMO this behavior deserves public shaming.

 

[Smooper]

Oh, they think they are going to buy at discount and sell it back again at a premium price. Too bad there aren't warning labels for these players.

 

[BrinDarby]

nonsense like this:

is that person 1 of your discovered neighbors ??
otherwise the game adds a 50% fee ... 30k -> 45k
( and if smaller cities have to pay the 50% bump,
then larger cities can pay that same bump, even if
the player has to list the trades @ 1.5x )

So its not "nonsence" , and perhaps that player is
putting up offers so his FS members always have
trades avail for need'd goods. Hense both sides of
the same basic trade.

 

[LordVorKon]

is that person 1 of your discovered neighbors ??

otherwise the game adds a 50% fee ... 30k -> 45k
( and if smaller cities have to pay the 50% bump,
then larger cities can pay that same bump, even if
the player has to list the trades @ 1.5x )

So its not "nonsence" , and perhaps that player is
putting up offers so his FS members always have
trades avail for need'd goods. Hense both sides of
the same basic trade.

A) Yes they're a neighbor
B) Even if they weren't, my level 31 BTG says 0% trader fees
C) It's absolutely nonsense.

 

[BrinDarby]

are you thier neighbor ?

 

[Smooper]

are you thier neighbor ?

Did you read his reply to your questions earlier?

 

[BrinDarby]

Did you read his reply to your questions earlier?

yes, but there's a difference if he's thier neighbor
and they are his neighbor. His answer wasn't clear .....

A) Yes they're a neighbor

 

[Pheryll]

yes, but there's a difference if he's thier neighbor
and they are his neighbor. His answer wasn't clear .....

The 0% trading fee was enough to answer the question.