Poaching of players should be banned

[Sprite1313]

chicken or the egg question of which came first

Does it matter which came first? Both are edible and make great snacks when properly prepared.

 

[Darielle]

It sounds like you have a great fellowship! I may steal one or two of your ideas, if I may!

Yes, I do think that some of the top groups get desperate and do desperate things because they perceive their recruiting pool as small. But the way the game works, those Chapter 6 folks can actually score gold spire quite consistently, if so motivated (we recently had such a player). I think its better to put that desperate energy into helping the players you have.

Yes, it is unfortunate that this thread started with a red flag!

Lol, be my guest! Ideas are meant to be stolen, hehe.

 

[Deleted User - 849411552]

Terminology is important: poaching is an incorrect term for the situation described by the Op and many others. Poaching is the illegal acquisition of game animals, either by hunting in posted areas or without a license to hunt said game animal. Not exactly what's being discussed here...

The term you all should be using is "headhunting", which is an accepted practice in the business world to acquire good talent. Making offers to people gainfully employed at other companies to come work for you is a tried and true method, often combined with "networking". However, there is nothing illegal about it, unless the headhunters persist after being told "No" by prospective hires.

The language evolves - or devolves. Both terms have expanded from their original meanings. This expansion typically starts as a humourous metaphor and then becomes popular. I think we all know what either term means in this context. No one on this thread has expressed any confusion about that.

As to the appropriateness or ethics of the practice in Elvenar, there is obviously a range of opinions, as we have seen expressed on this thread.

 

[Lady Dastardly]

Personally, when I poach a player I like to use a nice court bouillon - some wine and a bouquet garni makes most players suitable for even the most discerning palate. Sometimes your FS is short on dessert. Then you can poach them in port like a lovely pear. So delicious!

 

[Deleted User - 849411552]

That sounds quite excellent - and dastardly, if I may say so!

On the other hand, a well baked head with all the dressings would appeal to those who prefer the art of hunting. From personal experience, I must say that Dragons do prefer their meat well cooked.

 

[Myne]

Your signature shows that you not only joined but you are now ArchMage. What kind of shady fellowship is the kind which bribes players to come to them with snacks and titles?

THE Best!!

 

[Veesviewpoint]

...sure that I'm not alone in the "Oh me"...category.
It just can't be said any more clear...the team is guided by the Archmange!

So many, sad to say, have AM that consistently has excuse(s) for their lack of game play, no minimal score to join, setting Tourney requirements too low (300)...Spire requirements not expected, FA demanded, but yet not coordinated...neighborhood visits not monitored, AW's not supported or sit not upgraded, on and on...
Having been quite successful as a Mage, I've managed (not even trying) to recruit several really awesome team mates from our "neighborhood chat" line (separate from our "team chat").
I expect to sign in one day and see my team mates have gone to fellowships with more game spirit...not just "friendly spirit". (I think it would make me feel better...then I could do the same too. ???
One day, I'm pretty sure, I'll "take a break"...then check in with another fellowship...just to avoid all the "chatter".
Unfortunately, myself included have just settled in...and taking the pace, since it does no good to "rock the boat". At this point...life has become a bit "busy" so it happens to work for me at this time.
This includes our Mages too.

The AM is beloved...such...a nice person, think the world of her...it's just...oh well. Always some kind of excuse.
Don't get me wrong, the "core" group brought me up well, fast with goods, kp's, teaching/coaching etc. (as many of us continue to do...with great hopes...)
However, many of new players are "active in other cities", even AM's in those cities...and just looking to "find" a good team to keep them busy. (??) Suggestions on how to get this team "active" tend to fall on deaf ears, since they have the same problems elsewhere. Vetting and spending time on Elvenstats are "done by the AM". (??)
Note: they have the same "exact" problems, trying to get other team mates to "grow", without taking the initiative to look for better members...or taking what they have...and joining with another fellowship to make up 1 pretty decent group?"
Is being AM really worth all that?
It's why I gave it up on previous team and refuse to become the AM on our ship...and of course no one want to "upset" the current AM either...sigh.

The plan seems to be keep "propping up and asking folks to participate a little more, etc. etc...works a bit, but then...oh well.

So yes, even the most senior person has confessed thinking about leaving. He, along with a few others of us, manage to pull the weekly blue print. However, highly doubt he will leave.

So, thank all of you for this really long thread. Many, many truths have been brought forward. I am proof, the problem that plaques so many fellowships...and the reluctance to leave...because they are "friendly". Alas, like me...most will finally make the decision to up my game and commitment, or leave...at least for a season or two. Then start with a new group...clean, without baggage.

Thanks as always for this forum and for all of the folks who remain committed to put forward the truth of this "societal game format".
Each in their own unique manner of relating the same. The truth.
Vees

 

[Yavimaya]

...sure that I'm not alone in the "Oh me"...category.
It just can't be said any more clear...the team is guided by the Archmange!

So many, sad to say, have AM that consistently has excuse(s) for their lack of game play, no minimal score to join, setting Tourney requirements too low (300)...Spire requirements not expected, FA demanded, but yet not coordinated...neighborhood visits not monitored, AW's not supported or sit not upgraded, on and on...
Having been quite successful as a Mage, I've managed (not even trying) to recruit several really awesome team mates from our "neighborhood chat" line (separate from our "team chat").
I expect to sign in one day and see my team mates have gone to fellowships with more game spirit...not just "friendly spirit". (I think it would make me feel better...then I could do the same too. ???
One day, I'm pretty sure, I'll "take a break"...then check in with another fellowship...just to avoid all the "chatter".
Unfortunately, myself included have just settled in...and taking the pace, since it does no good to "rock the boat". At this point...life has become a bit "busy" so it happens to work for me at this time.
This includes our Mages too.

The AM is beloved...such...a nice person, think the world of her...it's just...oh well. Always some kind of excuse.
Don't get me wrong, the "core" group brought me up well, fast with goods, kp's, teaching/coaching etc. (as many of us continue to do...with great hopes...)
However, many of new players are "active in other cities", even AM's in those cities...and just looking to "find" a good team to keep them busy. (??) Suggestions on how to get this team "active" tend to fall on deaf ears, since they have the same problems elsewhere. Vetting and spending time on Elvenstats are "done by the AM". (??)
Note: they have the same "exact" problems, trying to get other team mates to "grow", without taking the initiative to look for better members...or taking what they have...and joining with another fellowship to make up 1 pretty decent group?"
Is being AM really worth all that?
It's why I gave it up on previous team and refuse to become the AM on our ship...and of course no one want to "upset" the current AM either...sigh.

The plan seems to be keep "propping up and asking folks to participate a little more, etc. etc...works a bit, but then...oh well.

So yes, even the most senior person has confessed thinking about leaving. He, along with a few others of us, manage to pull the weekly blue print. However, highly doubt he will leave.

So, thank all of you for this really long thread. Many, many truths have been brought forward. I am proof, the problem that plaques so many fellowships...and the reluctance to leave...because they are "friendly". Alas, like me...most will finally make the decision to up my game and commitment, or leave...at least for a season or two. Then start with a new group...clean, without baggage.

Thanks as always for this forum and for all of the folks who remain committed to put forward the truth of this "societal game format".
Each in their own unique manner of relating the same. The truth.
Vees

Do not always feel pressured to have to take a break when you decide you want to move on to better things! A polite "thank you all so much for being so kind and helpful to me for so long and teaching me, I appreciate you all. I have thought long and hard on making this decision but I've had a wish/goal for a while now and the opportunity came along and I need to at least try this. (Weekly gold spire, or insert whatever it is, wanting to be more competitive etc.) Just keep in mind you are in control. I've seen people do this and there are no hard feelings when they give us a good week notice or heads up and they are usually welcome back as long as leaving on good terms.

 

[Veesviewpoint]

Yes, and thank you, Yavimaya.

We have certainly seen it already. So, I am going to start looking around...and will probably make a move within the next 6 to 8 weeks.
At the latest, in the fall, post harvesting our garden and a vacation in September.
Earlier if I just can't see any hope at all.

I've always loved visiting the Forum members, lots of game info and interesting situations too.

 

[Tuschunreal]

I honestly think that private email solicitation of players that are already in an existing fellowship should not be accepted and any player that does this should be banned. It is not only disruptive to the team but disrespectful and annoying. Specially when it's an Ambassador or Archmage that is doing the soliciting by way of flattery and deception. If a player wishes to leave and look for a different fellowship by their own accord then that should be respected but for someone else knowing that the player is in an active fellowship and still seeking to disrupt that fellowship with such a deceptive and sneaky act should be banned from the game. It takes a lot of hard work and hours of dedication in a fellowship to to become a family and team that is helping each other push forward and grow. So many events that the team prepares for to be able to make a fellowship function properly. No one needs the annoyance of others coming in with deception to disruptive all the hard work the team has put in. Not Acceptable.

I recently contacted an AM and the only other active member (2 active members the AM and a fellow). I asked if they would be interested in joining a bigger more active fellowship. No offense intended and no flattery or deception offered. Just a straight up invite. I would hate to see a transparent communication like that banned. I received a note back from the AM asked that I not contact any of his players again. I apologized but I am not sure that the AM was even aware that he only has 1 active player besides themself. I have reached out asking for AM's to consider merging, to join my fellowship (in cases where there are only a few active players that would fit in our fellowship). I have either gotten no response, a very nice thanks but not interested hope to see you in the game sometime all the way to taking offense at my trying to contact to them. I share because just like in the real world there are all kinds of people, some that accept the contact and perhaps start a new on line friendship all the way to nasty folks who seem to relish in causing disruption. I realize that your issue is trying to poach players from active FS's. I also believe we AM's should understand players needs and help them either have their needs met by our FS or help them find one more aligned with their cultural desires. Just some food for thought...cheers...tusch

 

[Lelanya]

I recently contacted an AM and the only other active member (2 active members the AM and a fellow). I asked if they would be interested in joining a bigger more active fellowship. I received a note back from the AM asked that I not contact any of his players again. I apologized but I am not sure that the AM was even aware that he only has 1 active player besides themself.

You don't know that everyone is inactive, you only know that ElvenStats thinks they are, which is not the same thing. There could be players who polish, trade, chat, develop guest race tech, even climb Spire to the top every week, all without leaving a trace.

 

[Ashrem]

You don't know that everyone is inactive, you only know that ElvenStats thinks they are, which is not the same thing. There could be players who polish, trade, chat, develop guest race tech, even climb Spire to the top every week, all without leaving a trace.

That feels, though, like the exception which proves the rule. It's pretty tough to be active and have zero score change at all. You can't tear down or replace level one buildings or level any AWs or complete any province expansions. Even someone not doing much still tends to leave a bit of a footprint, so while there might be handful of people on each server who are so careful they can play without ever changing their score, it's unlikely to be enough to be worth considering.

 

[Myne]

You don't know that everyone is inactive, you only know that ElvenStats thinks they are, which is not the same thing. There could be players who polish, trade, chat, develop guest race tech, even climb Spire to the top every week, all without leaving a trace.

It works in the vast majority of cases. If they are not inactive, believe me they WILL tell you. Though in all my digging for players I have not come across an instance of that happening. I agree with @Ashrem

 

[Lelanya]

I had considered that, but some players park at one level, set up temp buildings, and only do what suits them. Once we have tons of relics, don't want to advance Wonders due to CAL, are not advancing research, it is plausible that a city could show inactive.

 

[Tuschunreal]

You don't know that everyone is inactive, you only know that ElvenStats thinks they are, which is not the same thing. There could be players who polish, trade, chat, develop guest race tech, even climb Spire to the top every week, all without leaving a trace.

Agreed and I believe the only way to find out is to ask. I like to start with the AM but if the AM shows as inactive I will message the players that elvenstats shows as active AND the AM. I am trying to be transparent and honest as possible. I have started some neat on line friendships with this approach. Even with the last AM who asked that I not contact his players...we have since messaged back and forth a couple times. They want to rebuild their FS as a more relaxed one that I am running. I offered to refer any player I come across that wants a more relaxed style of play. They appreciated that. I also agree with others that if someone is being disingenuous about recruiting players that does not help the larger community be robust. cheers...tusch

 

[Deborah M]

I have mixed feelings about this. I have had a few members poached from my FS. It is very disheartening when someone we have really tried to help advance their city gets poached. I do count myself lucky that most of our members are long-term so I don't worry about it too much. The funny one is that other FS have tried to poach my husband's city a few times. That's not all bad. It is a compliment to him even if there isn't a chance of him switching FS. On the other hand, it really was a big benefit to my game when I was poached a couple of times. Had I not been poached for the #3 FS and then the #1 FS on Elcy way back when, I'm sure my game, priorities and game style would have been very different. Sadly, my first FS doesn't even exist anymore.

 

[Tuschunreal]

I have mixed feelings about this. I have had a few members poached from my FS. It is very disheartening when someone we have really tried to help advance their city gets poached. I do count myself lucky that most of our members are long-term so I don't worry about it too much. The funny one is that other FS have tried to poach my husband's city a few times. That's not all bad. It is a compliment to him even if there isn't a chance of him switching FS. On the other hand, it really was a big benefit to my game when I was poached a couple of times. Had I not been poached for the #3 FS and then the #1 FS on Elcy way back when, I'm sure my game, priorities and game style would have been very different. Sadly, my first FS doesn't even exist anymore.

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Enjoy your journey

 

[Deborah M]

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Enjoy your journey

Exactly why I quit top FS and moved to my own. The constant treadmill of top Spire and tournament score pressure was killing my enjoyment of the game. I hated top FA too. I can do those things with no problem but it isn't my idea of fun. Now I have a 30ish ranked smaller FS and do what I want and at least what is good for other members when those times arise. I sincerely believe the only reason that I still love this game after all these years is because I stepped away from the treadmill stress. I have been so much happier since then. That is why I don't put high demands on my FS. We still do pretty good anyway IMO.

My advice to those who are approached to move to FS with high demands is to really consider whether or not you want to continuously meet those demands week after week, month after month, and year after year. Just a thought

 

[Iyapo]

My advice to those who are approached to move to FS with high demands is to really consider whether or not you want to continuously meet those demands week after week, month after month, and year after year.

On the bright side, most high demand fellowships are happy to embrace you when you have the time, happy to let you go if you want a break, and happy to welcome you back for visits. As long as you don't get all dramalicious or actually make them boot you.

 

[Concho Star]

I recently had a mage from another fs approach several members of one of my fellowships and attempt to poach them. One of my members sent me the email and it was very deceptive, making promises of rewards that are not guaranteed, such as getting 125 diamonds every week from the spire. He didn't tell the members that they have to reach that goal themselves to get those rewards, even if the fs as a whole reaches that level. He also started out his email with an insult, asking the members why they were wasting their time in our fs. The members he sent the email to were offended by it. I sent the arch of that fs a message about it and the arch apologized, but I then got an email from that mage telling me that poaching members from other fellowships is what he does and messaging the arch won't stop him. He then offered to teach me how to do that. I sent him a curt reply and told him that obviously his members aren't happy or he wouldn't have to be trying to poach members from other fellowships. I also pointed out that he had lost 96 members over the last 3 years, almost 4 full fellowships. I also let my fs members know this information and nobody left to join his fs. He again emailed me wanting to know if I wanted to trade a player with his fs. He had one that didn't want to do as much in the spire. I told him nobody in our fs wanted to go to his fs.