Feedback Quick and Dirty Summary of Ancient Wonder Changes

[Rythel]

Hey Guys. I put together a quick and dirty summary of the Ancient Wonder Changes. Feel free comment any corrections I might have missed.

General Summary: Curve changes all around (the rate at which a benefit increases as it levels up). The first 3 levels tend to be worse than before, with level 4 being about the same and level 5 being better. Expect to level wonders to 5 now to have effective results. Overall buffs to most wonders with these curve changes. Completed provinces have unilaterally been replaced by Squad Size when used in calculations. Decay reduction has seen a drastic change in the level up curve. Not only offering more reduction at max level, but offering more reduction at lower levels. Good production boosts have also been drastically increased and expect to see more troops from troop generating wonders.

Massively buffed wonders: Thrones of High Men, Enar's Embassy, Maze of Dark Matter
Massively nerfed wonders: Watchtower Ruins, Martial Monastery/Sanctuary, Dragon Abbey

Ancient Wonder Changes:

Tome of Secrets:
Supplies per scout -> Supplies per Main Story Quest

Golden Abyss
For Both Percentage curves adjusted, yielding more overall

Endless Excavation
Supplies per day curve adjusted, yielding more overall
Relics per completed province -> Relics per mystical object

Needles of the Tempest
Curves adjusted, yielding a lot more overall

Great Bell Spire/Crystal Lighthouse
Goods per reward chest based on Provinces -> based on Squad Size (Drastic increase)
Neighborly Help Duration curve adjusted yielding more overall

Sanctuary/Martial Monastery
Health Curve Adjusted, yielding more overall
Culture based on required culture -> Based on squad size (Drastic Decrease)
+5 Levels

Watchtower Ruins
Neighborly Help bonus curve adjusted, yielding more overall
Culture bonus based on required culture -> Based on squad size (Drastic Decrease)

Thrones of the High Men
Ranking points based on Ancient Wonder levels -> based on Main Hall Ranking points AND ancient wonder levels (mileage may vary)
Culture based on Ancient Wonder levels -> based on Main Hall Ranking points AND ancient wonder levels (drastic increase)

Mountain Halls
Both curves adjusted, yielding more overall. Goods boost nearly doubled.

Dwarven Bulwark
Both curves adjusted, yielding more overall

Prosperity Towers
Duration of Power of Provision curve adjusted yielding more overall
Effectiveness increase on Power of Provision decreased overall
Supplies yielded per 3 hours curve adjusted yielding more overall

Blooming Trader's Guild
Trader's fee curve adjusted with faster gains at earlier levels, but rewarding less at max levels
Wholeseller offers curve adjusted with faster gains at earlier levels, but rewarding less at max levels
Portal production boost curve adjusted yielding more overall

Shrine of Shrewdy Shrooms
Training Capacity based on Armory Levels -> based on Squad Size
Light Ranged curve adjusted yielding more overall

Heroes' Forge
Orcs based on completed province -> Based on squad size
Heavy melee damage curve adjusted yielding more overall

Enar's Embassy
Mana per scout -> Mana per tournament point at end of tournament (Drastic increase)

Flying Academy
Both curves adjusted yielding more overall

Dragon Abbey
Mana per spell usage based on completed provinces -> based on squad size (decrease)
mage unit strength curve adjusted yielding more overall

Maze of Dark Matter
Mana every 3 hours based on completed provinces -> based on squad size (Drastic increase, about 5x)
Reduced Mana Decay curve changed drastically offering more overall and at lower levels

Elvenar Trade Center
Magical Manufacturing duration curve adjusted yielding more overall
Magical Manufacturing effect curve adjusted offering more overall
Seeds every 12 hours based on Main Hall -> Based on Squad Size (Drastic increase, about 2x)

Temple of Toads
Both curves adjusted offering more overall

Victory Springs
Both curves adjusted offering more overall

Sunset Towers
Seeds when opening help chests based on Main Hall level -> Based on Squad Size (Increase)
Reduced Seed Decay curve changed drastically offering more overall and at lower levels

Pyramid of Purification
Both Curves adjusted yielding more overall

Lightouse of Good Neighborhood
Duration of Ensorcelled Endowment curve changed yielding more overall
Mana Boost on helped and enchanted culture buildings -> Now also boosts Orcs, Seeds and Unurium. Curve changed offering more overall.

Simia Sapiens
Reduced Sentient Goods Decay curve changed drastically offering more overall and at lower levels
Bonus Barracks units curve changed offering more overall

Timewarp
Sentient Goods production boost curve adjusted offering drastically more (Double)
Tournament Cooldown currently bugged

Thermal Springs of Youth
Population per Residence curve adjusted offering slightly more
Culture per Ancient Wonder levels -> Squad Size (Drastic Increase)

Vortex of Storage
Both curves adjusted offering more overall with sentient goods almost doubling

Spire Library
Ranking Points per spire crystal -> Fellowship spire reward only, also multiplied by Squad Size (drastic change, unsure of actual effects)

Tournament Arena
Ranking Points calculation also includes Squad Size (drastic change, unsure of actual effects)
Drone Rider curve changed yielding more overall

Dragon Ark
Sentient Goods when completing Main Story Quest based on completed provinces -> Squad Size (Increase)

Oracle of Fortune
Sentient Goods when magical object crafted based on completed provinces -> based on squad size

Shrine of Champions
Both Curves adjusted offering more overall

Temple of Spirits
Both curves adjusted offering more overall

Vallorian Seal Tower
Unurium for taxes curve adjusted offering drastically more (5x)
Reduced Unurium Decay curve changed drastically offering more overall and at lower levels

Tree of Enlightenment
Both curves adjusted offering more overall. Sentient production boost doubled

Scouts' Tavern
Curves Adjusted with slightly lower results at max levels.

Ancestral Resting Place
Reduced Ascended Goods Decay curve changed drastically offering more overall and at lower levels
Ghastly Banshee curve adjusted offering more overall

Maman Le Pre's Antique Shop
Curves Adjusted with slightly lower results at max levels.

Vallorian School of Sorcery
Mercenary Camp Heavy melee curve changed offering more overall
Cauldron cost reduction curve adjusted with slightly lower results at max level
Academy crafting time reduction curve adjusted with slightly lower results at max level

 

[AussieChick]

I can't find where we would need to use RR spells. Did they change their minds?
Where will we need to use them?

 

[Pheryll]

I can't find where we would need to use RR spells. Did they change their minds?
Where will we need to use them?

Only needed at rune wheel stages (starting at level 1 continuing every 5 levels).

 

[Pheryll]

Blooming Trader's Guild
...
Wholeseller offers curve adjusted yielding less overall

Some of this less overall is a little subjective. For levels 4-21, the new progression is at least as good.

 

[Lelanya]

Thank you @Rythel for this. Have you shared this with any of the Facebook groups or on Discord?

And, did you do all this work yourself or rely on the German Spreadsheet or Karvest's developer tools sheet, or the one that Prim shared on Discord?

 

[AussieChick]

Another question, where are we supposed to get the 30,000 spell fragments to upgrade one AW one level!!

 

[Mighty Peach]

The Blooming Guild Trader is an interesting case.

Mine is at level 21. At that level, the wholesaler offer is the same (+300%) and so is the reduced trading fee(12.5%). But with an increase to guest race productions(+41.5%) -- So actually a buff at that specific level.

But not as good in later levels. As @Pheryll mentioned.

 

[Rythel]

Some of this less overall is a little subjective. For levels 4-21, the new progression is at least as good.

Oh that's interesting. I only compared at level 1, 5 and 30 so that's a good catch!

Thank you @Rythel for this. Have you shared this with any of the Facebook groups or on Discord?

And, did you do all this work yourself or rely on the German Spreadsheet or Karvest's developer tools sheet, or the one that Prim shared on Discord?

I have only shared this here and with my fellowship. It's all original work, hence it's quite rough haha. Feel free to share this elsewhere, it's more important to me that the info is out there.

 

[AussieChick]

In one world, I can do one star after the other without ant delay in the tourny.

 

[Mykan]

Some of this less overall is a little subjective. For levels 4-21, the new progression is at least as good.

It is less at max level is what I believe thy are saying. It definitely offers me less goods on max level.

The first 3 levels tend to be worse than before

I didn't check all wonders but many I checked are better at level 2 than current and even more by level 3. Level 1 gives 10% of the max level and most wonders were worthwhile at level 1 so may not be too bad for new entrants...

Nice summary

 

[Dominionofgod]

Thrones of the High Men
Ranking points based on Ancient Wonder levels -> based on Main Hall Ranking points AND ancient wonder levels (drastic increase)
Culture based on Ancient Wonder levels -> based on Main Hall Ranking points AND ancient wonder levels (drastic increase)

Thrones culture is not a drastic increase. Not even an increase. Its a DRASTIC decrease. I literally just finished getting it to lvl 30 in the last month. Strictly for the culture bonus. Now i have a lvl 30 Thrones that give 1759 culture.

It used to be (at 30) 150x aw levels. I have 234 so 150*234=35,100 culture. ... soooo 1.7k is not a drastic increase.

Watchtower Ruins
Neighborly Help bonus curve adjusted, yielding more overall
Culture bonus based on required culture -> Based on squad size (Drastic Decrease)

Culture does not look like a drastic decrease on this one. (squad size tech dependent and cult req dependent.)
I had just got ruins to 30 as well last month (did ruins and thrones at same time)
Old ruins was % of required culture. At lvl 30 mine was 44k* 40% = thats a boost of 17600cult.
New ruins is a % of squad size. Which with all ss tech gotten at my lvl... gives a boost of 20.5k cult.

Granted.. that will change if someone uses more culture or skipped squad size upgrades. New ruins is as high as its going to get. I have no more sqaud size upgrades to get. So thats steady. - Old ruins could technically get higher with more buildings or building upgrades.

Sanctuary/Martial Monastery
Health Curve Adjusted, yielding more overall
Culture based on required culture -> Based on squad size (Drastic Decrease)
+5 Levels

culture, same as my last aw above.
Old MM (at lvl 30) was 40% of required cult. For me, that was 17600
New mm is % squad size, for me is 20.5k cult

Mountain Halls
Both curves adjusted, yielding more overall. Goods boost nearly doubled.

I hope im wrong on what im seeing here, cause i dont like what im seeing...

and... as im typing this out, i think i see the confusion. Shouldnt have been a surprise on this one. Its often an issue.
Old MH showed at lvl 30 a +260% good boost.
New MH showed +220%
looks like a decrease....
But... the +260% of old was a total. 100%+160%=260%
new MH shows +220%.... but its 100% + 220% = 320%

Always had issue with how they show these numbers. Leads to issues like that.

Prosperity Towers
Duration of Power of Provision curve adjusted yielding more overall
Effectiveness increase on Power of Provision decreased overall
Supplies yielded per 3 hours curve adjusted yielding more overall

the exact opposite of what i want ><

Shrine of Shrewdy Shrooms
Training Capacity based on Armory Levels -> based on Squad Size

This one upsets me the most so far. I can understand not putting a increase/decrease on that one. It was highly variable before. But that is part of what i liked about it.
Used to be all combined levels of armories * boost. At lvl 30 the boost was x40.
I had four lvl 20 armories. So 20*4=80 * 40 = 3200 training size boost
Now its based off squad sized (mine at max) is 1710.
So i lost a lot there. Im sure others lost even more.
At least the bulwark training size bonus went up some. But over all, my training size decreased.


... ands thats all i notice right now worthy of noting off the aw's i currently have placed..
And ill admit, that iv looked and been mistaken on a few aw's so far. Perhaps i mistook something else in these comments.

 

[BrinDarby]

oooo not my precioussss (AWs)
ohh wait I have no presiousssss
sneaky smart or happy accident ?

 

[BrinDarby]

Hey Inno..... Ever heard of,
"The Law of Unintended Consequences" ??

Plus, you can add the "hundreds" of negative
Forum comments to the "thousands" of negative
Discord comments, concerning the AW chgs.

 

[Henroo]

Maze of Dark Matter is now so good it is almost absurd. The Dragon Rock Gorge introduced in chapter 21 is one of the better mana producers on a square for square basis. 3x5, gives 42,000 mana in 12 hours. So 84,000 mana a day. In ch 21, Maze of Dark Matter gives 88,000 mana in 3 hours at level 14. Mana decay will be cut to only 4% daily. So at level 14, you've cut decay by over half and you are getting more mana than the entire daily output of a Dragon Rock Gorge every 3 hours.

 

[Henroo]

All the wonders which cut decay (Maze, Sunset Towers, Sima ect..) used to max out at a 2% decay rate at level 30. They all now max out at 1% decay rate at L35. So if you have these at L35, your decay rate just got cut in half.

All the wonders that give damage bonuses to troops (Needles, Dragon Abbey ect...) used to max out at a 40% damage bonus at L30. They now max out at a 50% damage bonus at L35.

 

[Pheryll]

Scouts' Tavern
No changes

Actually it appears that this wonder as well as the 2 chapter 21 wonders got a slight nerf that only affected the higher levels. The old progression ended at 65%, the new at 60%; however the leveling is identical up to level 21.

 

[Rowdiesaurus]

Hey Guys. I put together a quick and dirty summary of the Ancient Wonder Changes. Feel free comment any corrections I might have missed.

General Summary: Curve changes all around (the rate at which a benefit increases as it levels up). The first 3 levels tend to be worse than before, with level 4 being about the same and level 5 being better. Expect to level wonders to 5 now to have effective results. Overall buffs to most wonders with these curve changes. Completed provinces have unilaterally been replaced by Squad Size when used in calculations. Decay reduction has seen a drastic change in the level up curve. Not only offering more reduction at max level, but offering more reduction at lower levels. Good production boosts have also been drastically increased and expect to see more troops from troop generating wonders.

Massively buffed wonders: Thrones of High Men, Enar's Embassy, Maze of Dark Matter
Massively nerfed wonders: Watchtower Ruins, Martial Monastery/Sanctuary, Dragon Abbey

Ancient Wonder Changes:

Tome of Secrets:
Supplies per scout -> Supplies per Main Story Quest

Golden Abyss
For Both Percentage curves adjusted, yielding more overall

Endless Excavation
Supplies per day curve adjusted, yielding more overall
Relics per completed province -> Relics per mystical object

Needles of the Tempest
Curves adjusted, yielding a lot more overall

Great Bell Spire/Crystal Lighthouse
Goods per reward chest based on Provinces -> based on Squad Size (Drastic increase)
Neighborly Help Duration curve adjusted yielding more overall

Sanctuary/Martial Monastery
Health Curve Adjusted, yielding more overall
Culture based on required culture -> Based on squad size (Drastic Decrease)
+5 Levels

Watchtower Ruins
Neighborly Help bonus curve adjusted, yielding more overall
Culture bonus based on required culture -> Based on squad size (Drastic Decrease)

Thrones of the High Men
Ranking points based on Ancient Wonder levels -> based on Main Hall Ranking points AND ancient wonder levels (drastic increase)
Culture based on Ancient Wonder levels -> based on Main Hall Ranking points AND ancient wonder levels (drastic increase)

Mountain Halls
Both curves adjusted, yielding more overall. Goods boost nearly doubled.

Dwarven Bulwark
Both curves adjusted, yielding more overall

Prosperity Towers
Duration of Power of Provision curve adjusted yielding more overall
Effectiveness increase on Power of Provision decreased overall
Supplies yielded per 3 hours curve adjusted yielding more overall

Blooming Trader's Guild
Trader's fee curve adjusted with faster gains at earlier levels, but rewarding less at max levels
Wholeseller offers curve adjusted with faster gains at earlier levels, but rewarding less at max levels
Portal production boost curve adjusted yielding more overall

Shrine of Shrewdy Shrooms
Training Capacity based on Armory Levels -> based on Squad Size
Light Ranged curve adjusted yielding more overall

Heroes' Forge
Orcs based on completed province -> Based on squad size
Heavy melee damage curve adjusted yielding more overall

Enar's Embassy
Mana per scout -> Mana per tournament point at end of tournament (Drastic increase)

Flying Academy
Both curves adjusted yielding more overall

Dragon Abbey
Mana per spell usage based on completed provinces -> based on squad size (decrease)
mage unit strength curve adjusted yielding more overall

Maze of Dark Matter
Mana every 3 hours based on completed provinces -> based on squad size (Drastic increase, about 5x)
Reduced Mana Decay curve changed drastically offering more overall and at lower levels

Elvenar Trade Center
Magical Manufacturing duration curve adjusted yielding more overall
Magical Manufacturing effect curve adjusted offering more overall
Seeds every 12 hours based on Main Hall -> Based on Squad Size (Drastic increase, about 2x)

Temple of Toads
Both curves adjusted offering more overall

Victory Springs
Both curves adjusted offering more overall

Sunset Towers
Seeds when opening help chests based on Main Hall level -> Based on Squad Size (Increase)
Reduced Seed Decay curve changed drastically offering more overall and at lower levels

Pyramid of Purification
Both Curves adjusted yielding more overall

Lightouse of Good Neighborhood
Duration of Ensorcelled Endowment curve changed yielding more overall
Mana Boost on helped and enchanted culture buildings -> Now also boosts Orcs, Seeds and Unurium. Curve changed offering more overall.

Simia Sapiens
Reduced Sentient Goods Decay curve changed drastically offering more overall and at lower levels
Bonus Barracks units curve changed offering more overall

Timewarp
Sentient Goods production boost curve adjusted offering drastically more (Double)
Tournament Cooldown currently bugged

Thermal Springs of Youth
Population per Residence curve adjusted offering slightly more
Culture per Ancient Wonder levels -> Squad Size (Drastic Increase)

Vortex of Storage
Both curves adjusted offering more overall with sentient goods almost doubling

Spire Library
Ranking Points per spire crystal -> Fellowship spire reward only, also multiplied by Squad Size (drastic change, unsure of actual effects)

Tournament Arena
Ranking Points calculation also includes Squad Size (drastic change, unsure of actual effects)
Drone Rider curve changed yielding more overall

Dragon Ark
Sentient Goods when completing Main Story Quest based on completed provinces -> Squad Size (Increase)

Oracle of Fortune
Sentient Goods when magical object crafted based on completed provinces -> based on squad size

Shrine of Champions
Both Curves adjusted offering more overall

Temple of Spirits
Both curves adjusted offering more overall

Vallorian Seal Tower
Unurium for taxes curve adjusted offering drastically more (5x)
Reduced Unurium Decay curve changed drastically offering more overall and at lower levels

Tree of Enlightenment
Both curves adjusted offering more overall. Sentient production boost doubled

Scouts' Tavern
No changes

Ancestral Resting Place
Reduced Ascended Goods Decay curve changed drastically offering more overall and at lower levels
Ghastly Banshee curve adjusted offering more overall

Maman Le Pre's Antique Shop
No Change

Vallorian School of Sorcery
Mercenary Camp Heavy melee curve changed offering more overall

this is a great post. big thanks

 

[Rythel]

Thrones culture is not a drastic increase. Not even an increase. Its a DRASTIC decrease. I literally just finished getting it to lvl 30 in the last month. Strictly for the culture bonus. Now i have a lvl 30 Thrones that give 1759 culture.

It used to be (at 30) 150x aw levels. I have 234 so 150*234=35,100 culture. ... soooo 1.7k is not a drastic increase.

Actually it appears that this wonder as well as the 2 chapter 21 wonders got a slight nerf that only affected the higher levels. The old progression ended at 65%, the new at 60%; however the leveling is identical up to level 21.

Thanks for catching these guys! I will continually update things as the changes receive more scrutiny to try and keep it as accurate as possible.

 

[Henroo]

This one upsets me the most so far. I can understand not putting a increase/decrease on that one. It was highly variable before. But that is part of what i liked about it.
Used to be all combined levels of armories * boost. At lvl 30 the boost was x40.
I had four lvl 20 armories. So 20*4=80 * 40 = 3200 training size boost
Now its based off squad sized (mine at max) is 1710.
So i lost a lot there. Im sure others lost even more.
At least the bulwark training size bonus went up some. But over all, my training size decreased.

If it makes you feel better, the change to Shrine of Shroms will benefit you in the long run as you advance. The reason for this is that Dwarven Bulwark scales up much better in later chapters than Shrine does.

I am sitting at the end of chapter 21. My squad size is 10,700. Therefore, overall squad size has increased just over 6x when compared to your current max of 1710. The maximum level for an armory is level 43. So my max armory level has increased slightly more than 2x when compared to your max of level 20. Because max squad size increases much more as you advance than max armory levels, Dwarven Bulwark tends to perform much better as you advance in the game.

I have both Dwarven Bulwark and Shrine of Shrooms in my cities. I had 6 maxed armories, so 258 total armory levels (6x43). And before the update Dwarven Bulwark was still outperforming Shrine of Shrooms by a good margin. I would have had to add multiple additional armories for Shrooms to catch up. There might be end-game cities that were hurt by the change to Shrine of Shrooms. But for that to happen, they likely had 10 or more armories.

 

[cindywillow]

Thank you so much Rythel. I've already had 2 players jump ship because of this change. Hopefully by my sharing this the others will sit tight.