Feedback Quick and Dirty Summary of Ancient Wonder Changes

[Dominionofgod]

If it makes you feel better, the change to Shrine of Shroms will benefit you in the long run as you advance. The reason for this is that Dwarven Bulwark scales up much better in later chapters than Shrine does.

i hope it will... Right now, I still need both even with the change. But for the moment i cant say i like it. That multiplication factor of old, had a great potential...
Granted, right now my bulwark is lvl 15 and shrooms is lvl 21. - By that point (with a lvl 30 needles) i had a full barracks que training time of 17 hours or something around there. I forget exactly. But enough to make sure i was training 24/7.

Ill take a look at lvl 30 aw numbers as i type this.
Bulwark (30) old: Increases training size as a % of squad size - at lvl30 its 150%
My SS is 1140. So 1140*1.5=1710 bonus
New at 30: 165% so 1140*1.65= 1881 bonus
SO that would be a slight increase.

Shrooms at 30 Old: All armory levels * bonus
Bonus at 30 is 40x - I have 80 lvls of armories atm.
40*80=3200 bonus.
With potential to increase/decrease a lot with more/less armories
New at 30: % of squad size (same as bulwark).
@30=165%
1140*1.65= 1881 bonus.
So the decrease there is very very high. And no way to increase it. (Until you progress in story and unlock SS techs)

(Stuck to AW lvl 30 because aw of old required future chapter goods that i could not make at my chapter to upgrade past that.)

So lets a a look at your provided number. Squad size of 10,700 at chapter 21. Increase aw form 30 to 35 since you can upgrade by that point in game.
bulwark old @30: 10700*1.5 = 16050 bonus
bulwark new @30: 10700*1.65=17,655 bonus

Bulwark old @35: 10700*172.5%= 18,457.5
Bulwark new @35: 10700*180%= 19,260

Shrooms old @30(highly variable): Armory lvl 43 (you said was max level)
43*4(i currently have 4. Subject to change) = 172 * 40= 6880
Shrooms new @30: 10700*1.65-17,655 bonus

Shrooms old @35 43*4=172 *46= 7912
Shrooms new @35 10700*180%= 19,260


So yea... it does look like you could be correct about the new shrooms still being a higher use end game. Thats a drastic change tho. Going from a massive loss in the early/mid game to a drastic increase by end game.

Thanks for catching these guys! I will continually update things as the changes receive more scrutiny to try and keep it as accurate as possible.

worth noting above. New shrooms seems to have a high decrease in early/mid chapters. And a higher increase in end game.

Asumming all that is correct.... as i just woke up a bit ago and my mind is a little mushy atm...

 

[Pheryll]

I have both Dwarven Bulwark and Shrine of Shrooms in my cities. I had 6 maxed armories, so 258 total armory levels (6x43). And before the update Dwarven Bulwark was still outperforming Shrine of Shrooms by a good margin. I would have had to add multiple additional armories for Shrooms to catch up. There might be end-game cities that were hurt by the change to Shrine of Shrooms. But for that to happen, they likely had 10 or more armories.

Even if Shrooms were not changed, people would see a huge nerf in its capabilities due to the nerfing of martial monastery/sanctuary and watchtower ruins. After chapter 20 the squad size follows a new pattern as the team manually inputs values for the techs that match the chapter progression. This becomes a progression that is much better than the quadratic growth that the bulwark used to enjoy which again is better than the linear growth of the Shrooms.

 

[BrinDarby]

does anyone know..... exactly.... what the #78 SS+
increases from -> to ??

 

[muddyboots]

Does anyone know how the new Maze amounts are calculated. One of my fellows has a level 25 Maze and gets 83,000 every 3 hrs,rising to 84,000 for level 26. I have a level 26 Maze and get 116,000 - so why do I get more?

 

[Pheryll]

Does anyone know how the new Maze amounts are calculated. One of my fellows has a level 25 Maze and gets 83,000 every 3 hrs,rising to 84,000 for level 26. I have a level 26 Maze and get 116,000 - so why do I get more?

Based on supply capacity which comes from your main hall level.

 

[Pheryll]

does anyone know..... exactly.... what the #78 SS+
increases from -> to ??

Chapter 21 ends with SS #79 of 10700 troops. Karvest has datamined the projected figures for chapter 22, and the percent increase over that chapter is close the the percent increase from chapter 20 to chapter 21.

Here are the amounts
76 => 505
77 => 505
78 => 565
79 => 565
80 => 631
81 => 631
82 => 706
83 =>706

 

[Dominionofgod]

On a side note about these aw changes... A question to the mods, tho im guessing they dont know this one...

Right now the wiki still has all the old values for the aws. And its good to have that as a comparison tool. But we also need the updated values in there. I dont suppose there is any way inno will be able to have a section with the old aw values and one for the new aw values. That we can always compare and see how things have progressed?

 

[Pheryll]

On a side note about these aw changes... A question to the mods, tho im guessing they dont know this one...

Right now the wiki still has all the old values for the aws. And its good to have that as a comparison tool. But we also need the updated values in there. I dont suppose there is any way inno will be able to have a section with the old aw values and one for the new aw values. That we can always compare and see how things have progressed?

There is a history button on the wiki for comparing older edits to newer ones.

 

[Henroo]

Even if Shrooms were not changed, people would see a huge nerf in its capabilities due to the nerfing of martial monastery/sanctuary and watchtower ruins. After chapter 20 the squad size follows a new pattern as the team manually inputs values for the techs that match the chapter progression. This becomes a progression that is much better than the quadratic growth that the bulwark used to enjoy which again is better than the linear growth of the Shrooms.

I assume by that you mean that the people who had massive numbers of armories would be less able to maintain them due to the change in culture?

 

[Pheryll]

I assume by that you mean that the people who had massive numbers of armories would be less able to maintain them due to the change in culture?

Correct, in fact on chat on discord there is the discussion of support not teleporting people's armories for them if they have run out of teleport building enchantments.

 

[Henroo]

@Pheryll This change would also weaken Pyramid of Purification for players who were using large numbers of armories to breed orcs with. Although they would have the option to replace some of the armories with other sources of orcs like Orc Nest or Orc Ship.

 

[BrinDarby]

Chapter 21 ends with SS #79 of 10700 troops.

@Pheryll , you've seen my chart, does this mean
you don't know, and can u explain your numbers

I was looking for the format "from - to" ???

its insane not to be able to look @ ANY research's
details....... not just open researches.

 

[Pheryll]

I posted the amount each tech gives later in my post. It is easy to forward and back calculate from 10700 at the end of SS #79.

That is SS 79 is from 10135 to 10700.

 

[BrinDarby]

ok, 565 , ahhh ok.... got it , ty

my tech tree only goes to 78.

 

[Supertaco311]

Does anyone like this update, or am I the only one that thinks it’s trash? I see many posts here about how great it is, but I can’t tell if the posts are a shame from employee/players. I’m so pissed about this. So pissed to the point that I’m not sure if I am going to continue playing anymore. Been playing for about 2 years, about 1.5mil ranking points, and this update just set me back months, and I have to redesign the way I play. If I have to do this, why bother with Elvenar, might as well do it with another game that isn’t going to redistribute my hard work and playing time at the whim of some piece of … product [MOD EDIT] Text removed hat with a bad idea??!!!

 

[BrinDarby]

the majority think it sucks too......
like everyone except 1-2 ppl.

 

[Pheryll]

ok, 565 , ahhh ok.... got it , ty

my tech tree only goes to 78.

Mine goes to 79. Not sure why there is a difference.

 

[BrinDarby]

just checked, ok, mine also goes to 79.... ooops

 

[Pheryll]

@Pheryll This change would also weaken Pyramid of Purification for players who were using large numbers of armories to breed orcs with. Although they would have the option to replace some of the armories with other sources of orcs like Orc Nest or Orc Ship.

The Soul Lab (from the Halloween evolving set) is also great for orcs, especially if buffed by the Lighthouse of Good Neighborhood (yes the Pyramid has been reported to give extra goods based on the LoGN buff for orc production).

 

[Henroo]

The Soul Lab (from the Halloween evolving set) is also great for orcs, especially if buffed by the Lighthouse of Good Neighborhood (yes the Pyramid has been reported to give extra goods based on the LoGN buff for orc production).

Soul Lab itself gives Banshees, not orcs. And the other buildings in that set give Cerberus, mortars/golems, mana, or seeds. Are you sure you are not thinking about some other building or some other set?
I did know about the change to Lighthouse of Good Neighborhood and that it would now work on orc, seed, and unurium producing buildings. But as far as I know, LGN's new boosts do not include troop producing buildings. If it DID now buff troop producing buildings, I'd probably build it.