Feedback Quick and Dirty Summary of Ancient Wonder Changes

[BrinDarby]

What to do with kp/kp instants? What to do on those 'donate kp to you aw' quests.

As for the KP/AWKP instants, just let them build up...
I have figured out a way around the Donate task, but
its expensive, but should work.

ToS/GA cost 3k SF / 1 CC to place ( lvl-1). You will need
1 of these 2 not to be placed already. Worst case senario
you have to do this for each task, because when ppl see
they can add to you're AW, they will and it will fill instantly.
That gives you an AW to donate to for tasks. It an be done
with any lvl-1 AW you might not have, but the rest need
RRs just to place a lvl1 example, so more expensive.

Everything else , like crafting and such , I have no workaround
for and there prolly isn't a workaround for. Those things will
just become as you said, dead aspects of the game.

 

[Darielle]

I could not agree more - I also would add that I may not want to play at all when there is such a large chasm. It doesn't seem fair. Also I am not going to start over. If I need to start over, I am leaving the game. I enjoy mentoring new players and guiding and helping them through the rough patches so some day they can take my place mentoring a later generation. This "upgrade" likely ends that possibility.

Inno's stated goal of "making AWs fairer" isn't fairer at all from my perspective. It leaves me with an unfair advantage and the players I mentor with an unfair disadvantage. When I help them, I am not giving them a helping hand. I am providing a crutch because of the severe handicap Inno has handed to them and largess granted me for playing as long as I did under the old rules for AW upgrades.

Overall, the gross unfairness is a good reason to quite Elvenar, despite how much I have enjoyed it. I do hope Inno retreats from this unfair idea on AWs but I suspect they won't and many will quit. It is sad when a service so radically changes that they lose so many customers, but I pretty much expect that to be the case with Elvenar as I really don't think they listen much to their customers.

Overall, I got buffed and I don't like it. One has to imagine that those that got Nerfed aren't happy either. So who were the customers that these changes served better? If Inno can answer that, I'd like to hear it. Frankly, this reminds me of the introduction of New Coke. Hopefully Innos marketing people read that Harvard Business School case study and they are prepared with a Classic Coke solution.

I read about research that showed players spend the most money during the first six months they play the game. So maybe they want to get the newer players' money before they move on or get settled. (I confess that applies to me ... spending more in the first six months, until I came on the forum and found out about 100 percent and 200 percent sales. Then I stopped and waited for them ... and waited ... and waited ... and waited.

 

[Darielle]

I have over 700k+ spell frags in my main city, mostly because I was forward thinking enough to value all my moonstone sets. Oh, lucky me! I can weather this storm of defecated matter. But as ridiculous as 700k+ Spell Frags sounds, that’s only good for what, maybe 20 wonder level upgrades because my wonders are high, as I have been playing for many years. It wants 30k+ Spell Frags per upgrade. So for easy math, if I have 10 wonders, that’s maybe 2 upgrades apiece and *poof* it’s all gone.

So what took like 5yrs to accumulate is good for 2 more upgrades apiece on my wonders. And new players are supposed to do this, how exactly, especially with 1 Moonstone set limit now? These changes are perfectly reasonable…for people that don’t actually play the game. So I guess if you are a new player, you will struggle to get wonders built now and in 5 years time, you will…oh probably have about the same amount of wonders bc this probably game won’t exist anymore at the going rate of changes.

Amen

 

[BrinDarby]

I read about research that showed players spend the most money during the first six months they play the game.

This is why you don't start frustrating newbs in the 1st 2 weeks.
You get them enthused (hook'd) and you keep them happy for
those 6 months, because by then ... they're "invested" into staying.
You also suck them dry of $$ in those 6 months, or try to.

 

[Dominionofgod]

Im still not sure what im going to do because of the aw upgrade cost change...
My cities have 9 aw currently placed. Soon, 8 of them will be either full of kp or shards and ready for upgrade. Leaving only 1 left for kp to be put in. So its only a short time until they are all full. That will be a problem. What do I do with my kp? What do i do with my aw instants? What do i do on event quests for donate/use kp to your own aw? How should I proceed? or rather.. Should I bother proceeding if a whole section of the game has basically been locked out of? Whats the point?
The upgrade change/costs are absurd and idiotic. To just upgrade what i have ready, 8 aws one single time, would take from 75-100% of my multi year stockpile of catalysts and spell fragments... So moving forward, knowing 8 single aw upgrades would take many years to get resources to accomplish... is beyond crazy. If i zero out my resources trying to do it, then im screwed out of everything else that takes them. Cauldron (partially), crafting, everything that takes either catalysts or frag.
And even if i did the upgrades anyway, its only a short extension on the issue. Once the aw's are full again, i would be unable to upgrade at all. So id be locked out of my aw's progression. Zero catalyst/frag would hinder the cauldron. It would lock me out of crafting completely. No crafting means no more pet foods, military buildings, for me. Soon as that supply is depleted, no more evolving buildings. No more military, or very limited military that cant do much. Which means no more tourney or spire. No spire means no more of its extremely limited frags and catalysts. Now im in a circular path of not having and any and cant get any resources... At this point, no resources, no aw, no military, no tourney, no spire, no petfood/evolving building.... (And they wonder why do many players are quitting over this.. gee, i wonder), Its clear that zeroing out because of these upgrades cost is not a good option. Its an option to kill your city.
So what other choice do you have? Cant upgrade aw's.. just skip em? No more aw's? Or one aw level every so many months or years? Now were back to the top of this post. Hitting that brick wall again. What to do with kp/kp instants? What to do on those 'donate kp to you aw' quests. That would instantly go form the easiest quest to the most impossible. And we know how inno seems to keep making no alternative 'or' on those quests. So what happens when you reach 'donate to your own aw' and you have no aw left and no alternative quest? Now your lock out of the event!

How far does this have to go before they realize what a horrible idea these changes to the costs are? I can deal with the changes to the aw's themselves. It might annoy some of us, but we can adjust. But the change to its upgrade costs can lock ppl out of many aspects of the game in time. Screw entire cities over. Make years of work completely useless. Thats the biggest middle finger to a player base iv seen in the last ~7 or so years here. Even just shutting the game down would have been less of a middle finger. This is just a slow death of the cities. The kind that will only anger ppl to the point where not only will so many end up leaving, but instill an anger that will make sure they never bother with an inno product again.

If inno wanted to slow down aw production/upgrades so desperately.. then they could have just expanded the cost to upgrade to use chapter goods (jsut like most other buildings already). (Or something else entirely, idc.). Might not be a 'perfect' solution.. but its infinitely better then this crap they went with....
Oh well, guess ill get a jump on things and go casket shopping now. Tho i imagine a casket big enough to fit a city would be rather costly.. Then again, if im going to have to zero out my resources anyway... mine as well use it for something worth while.'

As for the KP/AWKP instants, just let them build up...
I have figured out a way around the Donate task, but
its expensive, but should work.

ToS/GA cost 3k SF / 1 CC to place ( lvl-1). You will need
1 of these 2 not to be placed already. Worst case senario
you have to do this for each task, because when ppl see
they can add to you're AW, they will and it will fill instantly.
That gives you an AW to donate to for tasks. It an be done
with any lvl-1 AW you might not have, but the rest need
RRs just to place a lvl1 example, so more expensive.

Everything else , like crafting and such , I have no workaround
for and there prolly isn't a workaround for. Those things will
just become as you said, dead aspects of the game.

Probably the best idea to get around this bs. Still have to deal with the 9 runes each time tho :/
Its utterly pathetic tho that players have to figure out work arounds to get around such a flawed and screwed up system...

 

[StarLAN]

I never thought in my entire life a game I love so much, or any game at all actually could make me feel the level of sad and upset and irritated I'm feeling over this Ancient Wonders change that went into Beta. Maybe this is a sign that I got too into my game or that I need to just back away for a while? I'm not sure. But I'm very upset to know all the years and hours I thought I was working on something great is about to be completely ruined if it goes to live worlds like they are planning. I thought them ripping the forum was a doozy, but I tried my hardest to turn positive and stay positive and optimistic. I was told there was only one time that something in beta did not go to live worlds. I'm not sure if that is fact or not but I'm hoping not. And I'm hoping that this is all changed back soon or fixed to wherever it should be. All I know is it isn't this!

I log in daily to Elvenar because it makes me happy. If I had a beta city and logged in and saw that it would have caused big mad inside me and I would have logged right back out to find something else to spend my time doing. I'm hoping this does not continue.

Matter in fact, I don't understand why they would even think of doing something this huge, this soon after upsetting so many by taking the forums out of the in game link and ruining our forum! I'm not sure what they are thinking we would feel by this. All I know is actions speak louder than words and I'm in utter shock.

All of the complaints on the specific discord section were forwarded to the devs. And so far not one word back.

Sorry. Now I'm done my rant. That is all for now. I'm normally pretty level-headed too.

I agree 100%... INNO, you need to pay attention to what your long time players are saying here.
You have devalued parts of the game that people have spent money on, this is NOT a way to get return business.

 

[MichaelMichael]

New thought - The new rules mean players that finish the last chapter will leave. Many of those players buy or did buy lots of diamonds. But what does a player do buried in KPs, Shards and KP instants do in the game? Wait for a build up of Spell Fragments? I guess they could convert the KP instants into spell fragments, but after that, what is a player to do?

Honestly, I expect a new world were most AWs are filled with KPs for the top players and the members in their fellowship. That dynamic makes many of those players fellows locked from recieving any more KPs. The top players have literally NOTHING to do with their KPs . Personally, I gain more than 1,000 KPs a week. When I run out of Spell fragments and RRs:

• What can I do with the KPs?
• What is my motivation to play?
• What can I do?

I suspect my answer is to quit Perhaps that is what Inno wants the top players to do - makes new chapters irrelevant as no one plays after they complete the last chapter. Perhaps they think we might move on to Forge of Heros or a different Inno game. Perhaps some will, but not this generation leaving Elvenar. Inno's redesign that destroyed their plans for the game (and enjoyment) together with how they ignored the players pleads will never be forgotten.

 

[AussieChick]

New thought - The new rules mean players that finish the last chapter will leave. Many of those players buy or did buy lots of diamonds. But what does a player do buried in KPs, Shards and KP instants do in the game? Wait for a build up of Spell Fragments? I guess they could convert the KP instants into spell fragments, but after that, what is a player to do?

Honestly, I expect a new world were most AWs are filled with KPs for the top players and the members in their fellowship. That dynamic makes many of those players fellows locked from recieving any more KPs. The top players have literally NOTHING to do with their KPs . Personally, I gain more than 1,000 KPs a week. When I run out of Spell fragments and RRs:

• What can I do with the KPs?
• What is my motivation to play?
• What can I do?

I suspect my answer is to quit Perhaps that is what Inno wants the top players to do - makes new chapters irrelevant as no one plays after they complete the last chapter. Perhaps they think we might move on to Forge of Heros or a different Inno game. Perhaps some will, but not this generation leaving Elvenar. Inno's redesign that destroyed their plans for the game (and enjoyment) together with how they ignored the players pleads will never be forgotten.

Totally agree, 3 minutes and my game is done. Why swap KP I have more than enough everyday and now have 3 AW's waiting for upgrades.
What do I do now? The game is over. Chapter is finished and with all the changes, I do not even know which AW I want to even work on.
I built AW's on the rules they had in place. Got them to level 31, and now they have changed their use totally.
If tr was in the business world, it would be classed illegal!!

 

[SandDollarz]

I never thought in my entire life a game I love so much, or any game at all actually could make me feel the level of sad and upset and irritated I'm feeling over this Ancient Wonders change that went into Beta. Maybe this is a sign that I got too into my game or that I need to just back away for a while? I'm not sure. But I'm very upset to know all the years and hours I thought I was working on something great is about to be completely ruined if it goes to live worlds like they are planning. I thought them ripping the forum was a doozy, but I tried my hardest to turn positive and stay positive and optimistic. I was told there was only one time that something in beta did not go to live worlds. I'm not sure if that is fact or not but I'm hoping not. And I'm hoping that this is all changed back soon or fixed to wherever it should be. All I know is it isn't this!

I log in daily to Elvenar because it makes me happy. If I had a beta city and logged in and saw that it would have caused big mad inside me and I would have logged right back out to find something else to spend my time doing. I'm hoping this does not continue.

Matter in fact, I don't understand why they would even think of doing something this huge, this soon after upsetting so many by taking the forums out of the in game link and ruining our forum! I'm not sure what they are thinking we would feel by this. All I know is actions speak louder than words and I'm in utter shock.

All of the complaints on the specific discord section were forwarded to the devs. And so far not one word back.

Sorry. Now I'm done my rant. That is all for now. I'm normally pretty level-headed too.

I agree with you. A lot of us are complaining about the ancient wonders changes.

 

[MichaelMichael]

I feel like if I played the soundtrack backwards, I will hear a secret, embedded message saying, “We are bleeding money!” I have been trying other games now to prepare for the inevitable.

A wise man (from corporate finance) told me "a corporation is a voracious animal, no matter how much you feed it, it want more better faster." Bleeding money means they may not meet Wall Street expectations (or Frankfort expectations as the case may be).

 

[Dominionofgod]

well.. im down to just one (of 9) aw's left to donate to. The rest are all ready for upgrade, or a few shards short of ready to upgrade. Soon as that is full, im not sure what to do..

Option 1: I can use all the catalysts and frags iv stored up over the last so many years for one round of upgrades and then ill zero out on those resources. The fact that a multi year stash can only do one round of ~9 upgrades before being completely depleted means that ill fill those aw's to full long before i even get enough catalysts and frags to upgrade a single aw again. So ill basically be locked out of my aw's . It would be inevitable to reach a point of all aw's full and no mets to upgrades.
No catalysts and frags would also mean no more crafting. That means no more pet foods, supply instants, or military buildings. That means its only a matter of time until i run out of pet foods and then evolving buildings become half useless. No more military boost buildings or fire phoenix (pet food) (or supplies to retrain) mean no more tourney and spire. Or at the very least, a very small small amount of it.
So.. : no aw's, no crafting, no military, no tourney, no spire... .. ... so... why would i want to stick around here in this game?

Option 2: upgrade one aw at a time, fill it, upgrade, fill etc. Basically a slow steady decline until i reach the results of option 1. Just takes longer.

Option 3: skip upgrading aw's. : Get locked out of aw's portion of the game, get the bonuses i already have, and that will be that for the rest of the game. Just sitting there and hoping that inno one day does something to fix.. stick that.. help.. with this bs issue. Ill also be screwed out of any story-line events and there rewards the moment they add a 'donate x kp to your own aw' quest with no 'or' option. - Up side; id at least have my current catalysts for crafting and by extension, military.

Option 4: disenchant my entire inventory for a few extra catalysts ad frags. Doesnt solve the problem, only extends the time line until it crashes. But everything iv spent years working to get, gone... screw that. Ill quit before doing that.

Option 5: Build a cheap lvl 1 aw that i dont already have. Place it, fill it when a 'donate kp' quests shows up only, so i dont get screwed outta that. When its full, sell it off. Rebuild it. Repeat over and over. Sadly, the only plausible method i see of getting around the 'donate kp to your own aw' issue thats going to happen in the near future. Probably the longest lasting band-aid. But it only lasts until you run outa shards to build it with.

Every single option i see sucks beyond words. And even more unnerving is how many players i know will be in a position worse them myself. - Yes, there are those in a better position then myself. For example; Those that were large enough and smart enough to take advantage of the moonstone library set when it was available for mass taking. (Now its limited to one). Sadly i was not one of the ppl large enough and smart enough to take advantage of that back then. - I do however do the full spire every week for years now, and craft catalysts spells in the Magic acadamey 24/7. I also stock pile the catalysts and frags that i dont use in crafting. I dont jsut waste them off on something. I save em up. For years. And despite that, im still in this horrible situation of the stock pile could be gone in one fell swoop. - But for all the players that arnt able to do a full spire, dont have a stock pile, maybe dont have enough relics to make catalysts 24/7.... the level of screwed over for them is even worse. I may be getting screwed over and wondering how to proceede... but those players basically wont ever be able to get started... its really sad.

I can deal with the aw changes and reballancing changes.. I can alter and adjust from that.. But this upgrade cost change is going to break the game if left as is. And the truly terrifying part... is that inno cant be THAT inept. They had to realize the problems this would create. And they chose to do it anyway. ... The future here is looking incredibly bleak.

 

[iamthouth]

Yep, that summarises my position too. I have a few more AW's to fill with KP, and as you play the spire to gold so will slowly gain more Spell Fragments, but have stopped completely crafting anything. Will give it a little more time, but hoping Inno realise and make changes. Will likely just save up KP for the next chapter if I'm still around.

 

[BrinDarby]

Yawns, wakes up from 2 day slumber (break)....
Yep, nothing has changed, and its sad.

 

[BrinDarby]

Optional :
1. left to choice, not compulsory or automatic
2. involving an option; depending on the exercise of an option;
left to one's disgression or choice; allowed but not compulsory.
3. not compulsory; left to personal choice; elective

There is no longer anything "optional" in the optional
researches. I'm wondering why they still are "optional",
especially with the Cauldron and AW changes.

 

[Pheryll]

Optional :
1. left to choice, not compulsory or automatic
2. involving an option; depending on the exercise of an option;
left to one's disgression or choice; allowed but not compulsory.
3. not compulsory; left to personal choice; elective

There is no longer anything "optional" in the optional
researches. I'm wondering why they still are "optional",
especially with the Cauldron and AW changes.

Why there are researches with no dependencies? It allows better pacing allowing you to work on multiple technologies at the same time.

 

[BrinDarby]

@Pheryll ,
Completing a CH in terms of Cauldron/SS+, is not equal to
completing the CH for progress. If they are truly optional,
then neither would The Cauldron or anything tied to SS
be adversely effected by choosing not to do them.

 

[iamthouth]

Every option has a consequence, whether you like it or not is irrelevant.

 

[Henroo]

Let me preface this idea by saying I do not think it will happen. Mainly because I don't think Inno will be this logical in their problem solving. But if Inno REALLY wanted to solve the spell fragment issue created by the update then all they need to do is un-restrict the Moonstone Library set. Let new players craft as many as they want. Let them build boneyards, just like us old players.

Why not? When they took the Moonstone Set out of the spire and put it in the magic academy, it was still making scrolls for every player. The primary motivation in restricting new players to 1 copy was to try to solve the scroll imbalance issue. When this failed (because old players still had massive Moonstone sets) they finally did what we had been asking them to do for nearly 2 years. They changed it so the set makes different goods, depending on your tier 2 boost. So the Moonstone set is fixed in terms of scrolls. It will no longer throw tier 2 goods out of balance for the entire game. So why restrict it?

Another potential solution would be to introduce future evolving buildings that will give spell fragments. As best I can remember, this has not happened so far. There are multiple old evolving buildings that will give CCs daily. And there is a building in the upcoming event that gives CCs. But other than the Moonstone Library set, is there any building that gives spell fragments on a daily basis?

 

[iamthouth]

I also think they will have to add spell fragments to more buildings. Either evolving buildings or event buildings. I'd be ok with limiting Moonstone Library to one still, but we do need more of them from somewhere.

 

[Fayeanne]

Something amusing occurred to me rather belatedly. Over time the developers have gradually removed any significance of your actual Squad Size number from combat. The game claims your Squad Size "allows you to fight with larger armies, making fights easier" but for a while this has been no longer the case since they disassociated the Tournament and Spire from Squad Size entirely. Your Squad Size is basically ignored in almost all combat now. Yet recently they changed the Ancient Wonders to mostly scale based on your Squad Size. So now your Squad Size went from being useful for combat to...being useful for everything BUT combat.