Quite Changing the Rules!!!!!!!!!! Magic Academy!

[DeletedUser1055]

Quit changing the rules in mid-stream! First we were told we didn't need to build the Magic Academy. I'm doing just fine without it taking up useless space. NOW, you stop those of us who were a mere KPs away from VII to go back and do the Magic Academy??? I can tell you one thing. I have spent my last "real money" in this game. Everytime Elvenar gets in trouble and needs to slow loyal players down, you throw a monkey wrench in it! I'm done spending money. If I have to slow down - watch me r e a l l y slow down!

 

[DeletedUser61]

First we were told we didn't need to build the Magic Academy.

The Magic Academy was introduced in phases, but it's always been obvious that the developers intended for it to be mandatory.

 

[DeletedUser1075]

This is a bunch of BS!!
For those of us who are going hardcore through the fairies chapter we shouldnt be FORCED to put our points into spell academy!!

 

[DeletedUser]

They need to grandfather in the players who are past the modified chapters. Make it mandatory for players who haven't yet completed the affected chapters--whatever--that's fine. But halting all other players in their tracks because an optional tech that was recently introduced into a long-ago chapter is now suddenly made mandatory? That would be like a university calling up its graduates and saying, "Hey, you know that software engineering degree you earned from us ten years ago? Yeah, that's no longer valid. We added a new mandatory course to the software engineering degree, and you can't use your degree until you come back and take this class."

I have been seething about this all day.

The only silver lining I have been able to find in all of this is that it gives me some time to upgrade my copper mines. @bantoob, @Roriane, perhaps you can take advantage of this sudden extra time in a similar way?

 

[DeletedUser61]

That would be like a university calling up its graduates and saying, "Hey, you know that software engineering degree you earned from us ten years ago? Yeah, that's no longer valid. We added a new mandatory course to the software engineering degree, and you can't use your degree until you come back and take this class."

• It's called mandatory continuing education. It's actually the norm in most professions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuing_legal_education
• Equally to the point, while you have to do the Research and Unlock the Chests, you'll also get a bunch of free spells, retroactively.

I don't understand why folks think that they should rescued whenever they paint themselves into a corner. It's not like any of this stuff is a surprise.

 

[DeletedUser627]

Fellow players - does it offend you to be insulted? Or do you agree that you're asking to be rescued after "painting yourself into a corner"? I'm not sure how your posts equate to thoughtless or childlike behavior, but I'm sure our fellow Forum member will be delighted to elucidate.

As to the requirement for continuing education - such requirements are made by employers or licensing organizations. Zuritar is correct: universities cannot require graduates to return for additional courses. In fact, it's just the opposite: immediately upon declaring a major, the university's published degree plan is considered a binding contract. Perhaps it's different in Europe?

Unfortunately, there aren't any reasonable expectations a player can make when beginning Elvenar. Rules will change. Objectives will change. The value of purchased premiums will change. The amount of access to the game will change. And, based on our first year of experience, these changes will occur at the whim - oh, pardon me, discretion - of the developers without regard for the opinions of vested players.

Buyer Beware: One can spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars playing Elvenar, and end up with a game where there's little active play time.

 

[DeletedUser1161]

• It's called mandatory continuing education. It's actually the norm in most professions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuing_legal_education
• Equally to the point, while you have to do the Research and Unlock the Chests, you'll also get a bunch of free spells, retroactively.

I don't understand why folks think that they should rescued whenever they paint themselves into a corner. It's not like any of this stuff is a surprise.

What, exactly, do you think being antagonistic adds to the discussion? Please enlighten me.

This change in the tech tree is NOT in the patch notes and most of us were caught by surprise. I'm sure quite a few players will walk away rather than be set back by 50 KP. If the devs had any interest in creating a fun game, they would look at how many advanced players decided the magic academy wasn't worth researching and building and make it more beneficial or even completely rewrite it until players decided it was an interesting, must-have building. Instead I'm guessing they're blinded by sunk costs and a bit too egotistical to admit to making a game design error. They put the work into making the albatross, therefore they're going to force us to all build one.

 

[DeletedUser1122]

I'm sure quite a few players will walk away rather than be set back by 50 KP. If the devs had any interest in creating a fun game, they would look at how many advanced players decided the magic academy wasn't worth researching and building and make it more beneficial or even completely rewrite it until players decided it was an interesting, must-have building. Instead I'm guessing they're blinded by sunk costs and a bit too egotistical to admit to making a game design error

It does appear that they have so many players that their servers are over crowded and they are trying to get people to quit. I think they have a good plan to do that.
Step 1 Design Ancient Wonderless and prematurely injected them into the game without game value. Then threaten to have them count on score.
Step 2 Design the Fairies to eliminate any one that works for a living. 1 hour production times, Brilliant! That will kick a bunch out.
Step 3 Force players to build something of no game value. Enter the magicless academy. Bravo! That crucifies morale
But for the creme de la creme (drumroll please)
Step 4 Introduce fighting to a city builder's game. Make it the only way to progress in a reasonable time fashion through the game.
Enter the "Provincial Tournaments" Darn you could even make it mandatory!
I have never played a beta game before and never will again. I hate the endless whiplash

 

[DeletedUser627]

It does appear that they have so many players that their servers are over crowded and they are trying to get people to quit. I think they have a good plan to do that.
Step 1 Design Ancient Wonderless and prematurely injected them into the game without game value. Then threaten to have them count on score.
......

I nominate that we adopt 6pac's new names:

Ancient Wonderless
Magicless Academy

Hip Hip Hooray!!

Missanthropy repaired the BBCode for the quote.​

 

[DeletedUser61]

Buyer Beware: One can spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars playing Elvenar, and end up with a game where there's little active play time.

I don't mean to brag, but I finished my 14 day diet in only 3 hours and 27 minutes.

universities cannot require graduates to return for additional courses. In fact, it's just the opposite:

As a bare minimum, the Universities are clearly complicite. https://www.engr.washington.edu/alumni/continuinged

 

[DeletedUser627]

I don't mean to brag, but I finished my 14 day diet in only 3 hours and 27 minutes.
As a bare minimum, the Universities are clearly complicite. https://www.engr.washington.edu/alumni/continuinged

Lame. Come on, KJ, your retorts used to sting! We're letting down our audience...

 

[DeletedUser637]

It does appear that they have so many players that their servers are over crowded and they are trying to get people to quit. I think they have a good plan to do that.
Step 1 Design Ancient Wonderless and prematurely injected them into the game without game value. Then threaten to have them count on score.
Step 2 Design the Fairies to eliminate any one that works for a living. 1 hour production times, Brilliant! That will kick a bunch out.
Step 3 Force players to build something of no game value. Enter the magicless academy. Bravo! That crucifies morale
But for the creme de la creme (drumroll please)
Step 4 Introduce fighting to a city builder's game. Make it the only way to progress in a reasonable time fashion through the game.
Enter the "Provincial Tournaments" Darn you could even make it mandatory!
I have never played a beta game before and never will again. I hate the endless whiplash

I actually believe that devs hate this game and do everything in their power to end it so that they can move on and develop something they like.

There was a lot of "re-balancing" in this game, all of them were bad for players but this thing with "magic" academy is insult.

I will play beta games in future but one thing I know: I will never play another Inno game. Despise their way...

 

[DeletedUser1055]

[QUOTE="Katwijk, post: 13457, member: 61"
I don't understand why folks think that they should rescued whenever they paint themselves into a corner. It's not like any of this stuff is a surprise.[/QUOTE]

Whenever I read one of your responses, I can't help but think that you work for InnoGames. Are they always right. . . and we players, who keep their game afloat, always wrong?

 

[DeletedUser61]

Are they always right. . . and we players, who keep their game afloat, always wrong?

You need only to look at my Penrose Stairs posts

Spoiler: Penrose

https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/climbing-the-penrose-stairs.2312/

in the Beta forums, BEFORE the game was even in open Beta, to understand that I've been pounding on the Developers, for more than a year now, about the simplistic implementation of the vacancies and immigrants on the world map.

I've been involved in a LOT of software development projects, and I was playing city builders before InnoGames even existed. I'm interested in what's good for the GAME, not the misfortunes of the moment.

I happen to think that InnoGames is doing a pretty decent development job, but I'm probably far more aware, than you, of various shortcomings. Just for starters, there's not really a decent excuse for Fellowship Visitation being so clumsy. Clicking on the shield SHOULD take you to the relevant Fellowship Roster, with a focus on the name of the city that you're currently visiting, so that you can select the next city.

 

[DeletedUser43]

I nominate that we adopt 6pac's new names:

Ancient Wonderless
Magicless Academy

Hip Hip Hooray!!

I second this!

 

[DeletedUser]

Kat, I don't think I painted myself into a corner. I feel more like I was painting the floor towards the door and the developers dropped two walls in my path with my only exit being a doorway back across the wet paint. And I would argue that continuing education, which may be completed at any accredited university, is completely different than having your diploma revoked until you return to the issuing university to take a newly mandatory class.

BUT, honestly? Let's not waste anymore time on analogies. Although fun, they skirt around the issue. I still think it stinks that the developers just up and pushed everybody back a few chapters in the tree. I just don't think that's the way to add tech to the tree. Make a new chapter and add the new tech into that chapter and make that tech mandatory there all you want. Or add it to an existing chapter, but make it--and keep it--optional. Retroactively mandating some things just doesn't make sense. I think this is one of those things. It's not as if you can't progress in the game without a magicless academy. So it doesn't make sense that you should suddenly not be able to continue progressing through the tech tree without completing that tech.

 

[DeletedUser61]

Changes and phased implementations are always inconvenient, and especially so if you're running right on the ragged edge of what's possible with the current system. As a minimum you're going to have to find a new groove.

Four months ago, in mid-December, the InnoGames YouTube promo highlighted three upcoming features:

• Fairies, which we now have, although we only have the first half of Chapter VII
• Magic Academy, although we only have three vanilla spells, so far
• Provincial Tournaments, which were featured in the April video a few days ago

Fairies are "just another" guest race. The buildings are really nice, and the tech tree and buildings seem to be better tuned, but it's "old technology."

Magic Academies are the misfortune of the moment, so let's examine the BEST way to introduce a major paradigm shift.

1. Write some transitional code, to ease the pain for existing users, and then throw it away in a few months when it's no longer needed
2. Write clean code for how it's SUPPOSED to work, forevermore, and keep the jarring adjustments as simple (as bug free) as possible

The essential consideration is that transitional code is VERY difficult to write. And the folks who want to be unhappy about the paradigm shift are going to be unhappy about the paradigm shift whether you use the gradual method or the abrupt method. You can't win that battle. Overall, the abrupt method will cause far less TOTAL pain and it's far more efficient, for everybody.

As recent examples we DO have the Ancient Wonders and the Advanced Scouting paradigm shifts. The paradigm shift was optional for one release cycle, then it became mandatory. It's admittedly tough to keep your sense of humor while you're finding your new groove, but find it you must.

• Dragging it out just means that it will be longer before things can settle down again.
• Get in, Get out, Get on with it

I don't think that the Provincial Tournament will be a major paradigm shift. They're more on the order of "well it's about time."

• An extra 32 or so Relics per week will eliminate many of the current objections to the Magic Academy
• An extra 29 or so Knowledge Points per week will brighten up the tactical landscape for Ancient Wonders
• Hopefully the developers will do something remarkable about vacancies and the immigration algorithm, while they're doing some major surgery on the world map anyway, for the Provincial Tournaments, and Muf-Muf has implied just that.

Takeaway: Quick and Clean is the BEST way to introduce a major paradigm shift.

 

[DeletedUser]

Ahhhh, it all becomes clear now. I wasn't up to the Ancient Wonders when they introduced them, so I paid no attention to whether they were mandatory or optional. Now I see why you're saying that we should have seen that coming. I was simply on the other side of that newly introduced technology at that time, so whether or not it was mandatory had no impact on me. I had no idea that leaving it optional for a release cycle was their modus operandi. It all makes sense now.

And Kat, I must agree with you that the abrupt method causes less total pain and is more efficient. From a software engineering perspective, this is certainly true.

But still, I hate when somebody moves my cheese.

 

[DeletedUser1122]

I don't think that the Provincial Tournament will be a major paradigm shift. They're more on the order of "well it's about time."

• An extra 32 or so Relics per week will eliminate many of the current objections to the Magic Academy
• An extra 29 or so Knowledge Points per week will brighten up the tactical landscape for Ancient Wonders

I'm at the beginning of the coin devouring fairies I need more discovered neighbors not more non boosted relics. I'm still able to scout more than 29 KP's a week.
A Few questions about the war games:
Is this suppose to supplement or replace discovering provinces and gaining coins/supplies from buffing neighbors.
You will collect boosted relics when you retake a province that you are boosted for?
What does your tea leaves..dollar to donuts say about a schedule? Be nice to have packets.
If they throw KP's into the bar once a week the gain will offset by the hours that you lose kp production due to full bar.

 

[DeletedUser61]

Is this suppose to supplement or replace discovering provinces and gaining coins/supplies from buffing neighbors.

You'll only get the Tournament option for sectors that you've already acquired.

You will collect boosted relics when you retake a province that you are boosted for?

There's a different type of relic each week Boosted isn't a consideration.

What does your tea leaves..dollar to donuts say about a schedule?

Well, right now we're at 2 out of the 3 things that were pimped in the December YouTube spot, so I'd say it's next.

f they throw KP's into the bar once a week the gain will offset by the hours that you lose kp production due to full bar.

When you complete a Tournament Sector you'll get a couple of Relics and a couple of Knowledge Points immediately. The current KPs from sectors can overflow your bar, so I wouldn't figure on the Tournament being any different. The end-of-the-week awards are only relics.