Release Notes version 1.32

[qaccy]

After reading about mana costs on the forums while I was still in orcs I designed my S&D city to be make more than a "typical" city. IMO you should have at least 12 willows in chapter 9, which is the same space as 20 libraries
around 120K per day from 20 libraries and enars, so upgrading roads to chapter 10 won't be an issue for me at all.

I will however most likely not bother finishing off my chapter 9 roads since I don't need the culture, and S&D roads are coming up soon.

Yes, currently I've got the massive space that was freed up by selling the S&D buildings stuffed to the brim with witch market stalls and a few libraries. Getting about 200k mana per day, which is more than needed for tech unless there's an insane amount of KP coming in as well, but that's with 18 libraries and 60 stalls (plus a few Juans and some woodelf habitats I've been unable to effectively dump yet), the numbers of which will be shrinking as I enter the part of the tree where I'll need to have the Halfling buildings running. I haven't figured out yet how many of each building I'm going to have, but it's probably going to be more than half of my 'mana space' which is going to reduce daily mana income by roughly that much as well. Of course, we agree that roads aren't really necessary with the small culture bonus and the fact that they're very expensive for such, but my original post was more to bring attention to the fact that they ARE very expensive for what seems like no reason at all. The Dwarf, Fairy and Orc roads can't even be built once you sell off those buildings because you need those guest race goods to build them! The cost just doesn't line up with what to me is a very basic structure (you always need roads, after all). I don't know what the average number of roads is in a decently optimized city, but the cost of 150 greenery streets has a total mana cost of about 675,000...that's more than double both of the Woodelf Main Hall upgrades combined, and is obviously far less useful. Same deal for S&D as well as Halflings...why do roads have to cost so much for the relative no benefit they provide? Is it because it's supposed to be just a 'luxury' thing to be able to upgrade them? That's really what I'm wondering!

 

[SoggyShorts]

You're right the cost:reward ratio for roads isn't great for chapter 9+. For dwarves, orcs and fairies there's no reason to nuke your settlement until you unlock the next one which is loads of time to fill your portal again for future roads. But tearing down woodelf/S&D buildings asap to spam out extra mana buildings to get a little nest egg is very important, and spending that mana cache on roads instead of techs is usually foolhardy.

 

[DeletedUser3507]

I like my big culture @SoggyShorts its all about a balanced supper city....
And it takes alot of culture to offset 6,6,7 tier factories and magic buildings...
My required culture is up to 109K yesh

 

[edeba]

Hmmm, I just decided to upgrade some roads from reading this thread. My next tech is about 115k of mana and I had over 200k, and for sure I have lots of time to gather more for the next tech. Well, seriously! 10 road squares, 45k of mana and a whole 180 extra culture... So, 100 squares will only get me 1800 culture and will cost 450k of mana. I did upgrade some a while back without looking at it that closely, and just noticed how easily I had wiped out my mana so I simply had not been replacing any more roads. So, I'm thinking accumulating more mana may be of greater benefit later on.

 

[SoggyShorts]

So, 100 squares will only get me 1800 culture and will cost 450k of mana.

Yep, pretty darn expensive. I guess the argument could be made that roads take up zero space though, so upgrading them gives the best possible culture per square in the game.

 

[edeba]

How do you figure 1 square is zero space? And their value is horrible. Magic Maze is 333 per square and when I get the road for this chapter, is is 117/square. That one costs even more mana.

Yep, pretty darn expensive. I guess the argument could be made that roads take up zero space though, so upgrading them gives the best possible culture per square in the game.

 

[SoggyShorts]

How do you figure 1 square is zero space?

Well you must have a road, meaning that space is already allocated no matter what.

So how much space does it take to upgrade from a dwarven street to a greenery street? zero.

Obviously real culture buildings give more culture per square, but because you must have streets to make your city work, anything less than max level roads means your city is less efficient than it could be. That said, as discussed above, it probably isn't worth upgrading roads if
a) it doesn't change your culture boost to the next level, and/or
b) it means slowing your progress by spending the mana

 

[qaccy]

Well you must have a road, meaning that space is already allocated no matter what.

So how much space does it take to upgrade from a dwarven street to a greenery street? zero.

Obviously real culture buildings give more culture per square, but because you must have streets to make your city work, anything less than max level roads means your city is less efficient than it could be. That said, as discussed above, it probably isn't worth upgrading roads if
a) it doesn't change your culture boost to the next level, and/or
b) it means slowing your progress by spending the mana

It would take me about 4 days to generate enough mana to pay for a city-wide upgrade to Lore Streets. This is at a time where I'm currently 'overproducing' mana by utilizing my full S&D campus area for mana generation. With where I'm at in the tech tree for Halflings, it's actually possible that I could manage that without running out of areas to spend KP and still make enough mana back to unlock more tech tree progression. However, that's only because I'm producing well beyond what I consider to be 'normal' mana production and that number will drop sharply once I start building fields. All that being said, roads jump about 23% in efficiency through each guest race chapter and across an entire city, it could add up to (almost) an extra culture building from the same chapter.

 

[SoggyShorts]

it could add up to (almost) an extra culture building from the same chapter.

I remember checking this almost a year ago for a couple of the early chapters, and I came to the same conclusion; upgrading roads equals one big culture building.

 

[edeba]

They added extra roads by requiring previously roadless culture to need the roads for mana.

 

[SoggyShorts]

They added extra roads by requiring previously roadless culture to need the roads for mana.

Exactly my point. You must have roads. Therefore upgrading roads costs zero additional space.

 

[edeba]

You left out "upgrading" in that first post... I just couldn't figure out how you figured roads did use space. So it really comes down to whether using the mana is an issue.

Exactly my point. You must have roads. Therefore upgrading roads costs zero additional space.

 

[DeletedUser6085]

Can I leave feedback on how expensive new roads are to build? I realize they're not very necessary, but the extremely high cost of guest race roads means you're probably not even going to be building some of them at all, much less fill an entire city with them. Is there a reason why one square of road needs to cost so much mana? It's not as if they don't cost a good chunk of coin and supply as well, when you multiply it by the needs of a whole city, which is probably in the range of 100-200 squares. Or am I the only one finding myself not having replaced all of my roads with the woodelf roads, completely skipping the sorcerer roads and now probably not going to build very many halfling roads either when I eventually unlock them?

The last road I built was the "Ornate Street". The guest race roads are outrageously priced. I won't pay those kinds of prices. You would think they were made out of pure gold.

 

[Risen Malchiah]

The fairy roads aren't bad. With the right amount of farms, they tend to sit idle while waiting for the next tech anyway. I was able to get all the roads done in a day without stopping the tech tree.

 

[qaccy]

The fairy roads aren't bad. With the right amount of farms, they tend to sit idle while waiting for the next tech anyway. I was able to get all the roads done in a day without stopping the tech tree.

It's mainly once they start to cost mana that roads become an issue, which is why I mainly focused on them. Mana's needed for tech, as well as upgrading some buildings (like the Main Hall) and a great deal of guest race productions once it's introduced. Plus the fact that you lose 10% of your stock every 24 hours. It doesn't change the fact though that you lose the ability to produce the goods for Dwarf, Fairy, and Orc roads once you remove those guest race buildings, which is a problem unique to those roads specifically.

 

[Risen Malchiah]

True, most advise producing some extra of those goods while researching the next adv scouts for future roads. I find it funny that even after selling the portals, you can still make those roads but can no longer see how much of those resources you have left.

 

[DeletedUser7370]

Plus the fact that you lose 10% of your stock every 24 hours.

Does that loss happen at a specific time or does your supply drop slowly throughout the day. I would like to understand the specific mechanics, but have not found any clear discussion on it.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Does that loss happen at a specific time or does your supply drop slowly throughout the day. I would like to understand the specific mechanics, but have not found any clear discussion on it.

Found it

Mana decays daily at 9:59AM EST by 10% If possible, collect mana after the decay so you save more of it. You will hit a cap on the amount of mana you can produce once your entire production amount goes towards the decay. This means if you produce 60,000 mana per day, You will be capped at 6 million man. However, I do not think it is possible to hit that cap before you actually start using it.

 

[Arkadia]

my mana decay happens at 1am PT, which is not even close to the time showing