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    Your Elvenar Team

Other Request that Developers Play

Henroo

Well-Known Member
I expect there are back doors or secret codes that when entered will give them diamonds, or perhaps a code that will advance the clock so there is no need to wait for anything to finish. I expect they can put their city into any chapter, set their AW levels at will, or produce any building at any level.
It is actually reasonable for them to have this capability so they can test new code without having to wait on the clock.
When they are playing, they will not experience the game the same way we do.

I cannot t point to anywhere to prove to you that this is true. I know there are back doors built into computer operating systems that would provide access to developers without the need to go thru any security password. Apple even has a way to get into locked phones but will not share that with anyone. Elvenar developers can navigate thru their code.

Requiring the developers to play Elvenar the way we do is not possible. They are aware of all the cheats.
If they do this they're not really playing the game. Which defeats the purpose of the original suggestion. Which is that devs play through the game so they can learn first hand how stuff works and improve the game. Although it might be an interesting experience if a Dev who has only played the first few chapters WAS to put in a cheat code and instantly advance to Ch 16 or so. I am betting they would be pretty lost because they have skipped so many steps.
 

Henroo

Well-Known Member
As for myself, not being at the end game is indeed a choice I've made, but I'm not a developer. If I was I'd take at least one of my cities further and see how crappy the formula is first-hand and fix it. I'm confident enough in my (and others') math abilities that I don't need to experience it myself and ruin my city to prove it though.
I would say if you are a fighting player then end game phase begins as soon as you unlock the Frog Prince promotion in ch 15. In fact, this is the problem with the late chapters. You reach peak fighting potential 3 full chapters before the current ending point of the game. No unit promotions or military AWs in ch 16 or 17. There are a few 4 star unit promotions in ch 18. But none of them are my primary units. I probably will eventually get bored of being parked at the start of ch 16 and resume advancing through the game. But for now I am happy where I am. Now if they put a 4 star promotion for Priests or Rangers in ch 19 when they introduce it, that could change things... ;)
 

helya

Community Manager
Elvenar Team
Despite the many comments on the Forum that the developers do not play the game, they do. They just don't play it in the same way as an avid Elvenar fan would. When you are developing and programming a game, you're playing with more of a clinical "does this work and how will it bring in revenue" eye that is impossible to separate from merely enjoying the game.

No one, developer or not, is permitted to manipulate the game to benefit their account in the live servers.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
Now if they put a 4 star promotion for Priests or Rangers in ch 19 when they introduce it, that could change things... ;)
For Human cities, the 4-star archer is better than the 3-star ranger. And of course, a 4-star drone rider and 4-star orc strategist are way better than a 3-star barbarian or 3-star mortar. Even the 3-star frogs have been failing more for me in chapter 18 than they did in chapter 17. It makes me think they did another stealth nerf of the frogs.
 

able99

Well-Known Member
helya, Your comments are spot on. The developers are playing the game exactly as they should, with an eye on revenue and in a clinical fashion. They are not doing that on any of the live servers, or even the beta server, but rather I believe the have a development server dedicated to them.

No one, developer or not, is permitted to manipulate the game to benefit their account in the live servers.
Your comment that developer are not permitted to manipulate the game is interesting. It suggests they have the capability to do so, as they should, but limit that to their dedicated server.
 

Myne

Well-Known Member
Ok I think that settles the question of whether or not they play. Unless there are any who want to continue this discussion, I propose we close this thread.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
Ok I think that settles the question of whether or not they play. Unless there are any who want to continue this discussion, I propose we close this thread.
I mean we always knew they played it a little. I didn't think anyone literally thought that the developers had never created a city in Elvenar.
The question should perhaps be: If no developers have advanced/ competitive/hardcore/whatever cities, then what can be done to inform them of the challenges such players face? Ditto for totally new cities.
 

Henroo

Well-Known Member
For Human cities, the 4-star archer is better than the 3-star ranger.
The archer is the Elvish unit. And I actually still use it some. I could see a 4 star version of it being useful in my Elvish city. But humans have the crossbowman and it is not nearly as good as the archer. Even with an extra promotion I can't see crossbowmen as a top tier unit.
 

Myne

Well-Known Member
The question should perhaps be: If no developers have advanced/ competitive/hardcore/whatever cities, then what can be done to inform them of the challenges such players face? Ditto for totally new cities.
The only answer I can think of would be for us to take very specific instances of what aspect of the game affects what part of the game (beginners, midlevel players, advanced players) and address them one at a time. Yes, that would be very time consuming, but there really is no alternative. These instances would need to be real problems, not something minor that is an inconvenience. We would need to come together to word the problem very specifically as well, and not just say oh you did this and now this happened and I am not liking it.
Many of you already do this and it's working. It's just tedious. It's possible they don't play long enough to see the full ramifications of their decisions, which may only be apparent after playing for a good period of time.
But remember, everything they mess with affects everything else, so at what point are we making things worse by demanding/asking for changes?
Honestly, I think the biggest problem we have at the moment is the Fellowship Adventures. Many hate it, not just a few. Surely we can brainstorm a better alternative than what we have.
 

Sir Squirrel

Well-Known Member
They have a test server where they can test the game. On that server they have unlimited diamonds, goods, supplies and gold and can start at any chapter to check for problems and make sure everything is working and to check for bugs. I can see them not wanting to play the game after spending 8 hours a day creating content and fixing bugs. They would always know what the next chapter was and the best way of beating it as they created the road blocks, so it wouldn't be that much fun to play knowing everything in advance. I had to quit beta because doing events there and then doing them on live got hell a boring. I do wish they could play more on live at end levels, but only a dev that was around from the very start (5-6 years) of the game would be far enough to have reached late game (or end game) and be able to actually feel the burn of the changes in tourney. Like having to sell off a wonder (or wonders) that you upgraded for 4 years to be able to even play the tourney. Only after they felt the sting and tears from that would they understand!
 
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Darielle

Well-Known Member
Everyone on opposite sides are each making such good points in this thread that I don't know which side I'm on. That doesn't happen often, lol.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
The only answer I can think of would be for us to take very specific instances of what aspect of the game affects what part of the game (beginners, midlevel players, advanced players) and address them one at a time. Yes, that would be very time consuming, but there really is no alternative. These instances would need to be real problems, not something minor that is an inconvenience. We would need to come together to word the problem very specifically as well, and not just say oh you did this and now this happened and I am not liking it.
Many of you already do this and it's working. It's just tedious. It's possible they don't play long enough to see the full ramifications of their decisions, which may only be apparent after playing for a good period of time.
But remember, everything they mess with affects everything else, so at what point are we making things worse by demanding/asking for changes?
Honestly, I think the biggest problem we have at the moment is the Fellowship Adventures. Many hate it, not just a few. Surely we can brainstorm a better alternative than what we have.
Wishful thinking I'm afraid. We can't even get a consensus on something so objectively positive as improving the FA interface. All it takes is a single loud voice of opposition and a proposal suddenly becomes "controversial" and is viewed as such by the developers.

The workaround I suppose would be to hold more private discussions and exclude fringe players from them. Then once the (limited) feedback has been collected and a solid proposal formed submit it directly? This would come with its own set of problems, not the least of which would be in choosing those unofficial representatives.

Even if you found a good sampling of the player base who were also able to see things from a greater perspective than just their own there is the issue of the developers' apathy that we can't fix. For example, the moonstone set changes which had (nearly) full support took almost 2 years to implement despite being a 5- minute fix.
 

crackie

Well-Known Member
I had to quit beta because doing events there and then doing them on live got hell a boring.
This is why I would not want to sign up for beta. I don’t want to play a potentially buggy and frustrating version of an event and then have to repeat the event again on live servers. It only takes one mis-calibrated number in a variable for it to be a very bad experience. It’s like willingly signing up for Groundhog’s Day to relive the Orc chapter.
 

ajqtrz

Well-Known Member
So yeah, the devs may each have a city but only representative of the uber-casual player. They are far more likely to have a pretty field of unicorns than a top 1,000 city.
The "uber-casual" player is only out numbered in this game by the "no longer playing" crowd. If I want my dev to have a typical experience I think "uber-casual" would be about right.

The number of player rising to the top -- say 3 chapters -- is far less than those in the previous 3 chapters and those far less than the 3 chapters before them, no doubt. Thus, if you are servicing your customers you want to have the experience most of them are having.

In addition, when they change something the larger players can adapt more readily because they have the resources and experience to understand what is going on with the change and to adjust. The smaller and mid level players, not so much and that, I think is where the focus is since to keep those players might be harder than to keep the ones in chapter fifteen and beyond who have already invested so much in their cities.

Just some thoughts.

AJ
 

Lelanya

Well-Known Member
If a developer is in the fairy chapter after 4 years that hardly counts IMO.
I think when players complain that "the devs don't play" they mean at a serious level.

I'd love for a dev to correct me, but I'm still convinced that none of them have been in a top FA FS nor getting 15+ tournament chests, and I doubt even a Gold Spire FS. I'd be shocked if they had any end-game cities (that didn't use copious diamonds)

So yeah, the devs may each have a city but only representative of the uber-casual player. They are far more likely to have a pretty field of unicorns than a top 1,000 city.
I have seen the city for the CM manager that was in the anniversary video... details to follow.
It was about a month after I left Derp Alliance Beta; her city was a chapter below endgame at that point.
 

able99

Well-Known Member
I don't know what everyone's rl job is, but think of it this way.
If you are a cobbler (shoe maker) would you come home after a day at work to relax and make a pair of shoes?
If you lay bricks for a living, how about coming coming home and building a brick wall in your back yard, just to se how brick layers feel.
How about a computer programmer, home he goes to play with the program he wrote at work, to enjoy it as others would.
Not happening...
Accept the fact that developers are already playing the game at work to check that their code works as they intended.
After that, I don't see it
You are trying to make a rule that developers play as we do, to see our frustrations. I don't think that's posible.
If they truly played for fun, I think they would feel --
Yep, This works as we designed it. Its perfect.
.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
If you are a cobbler (shoe maker) would you come home after a day at work to relax and make a pair of shoes?
I'd expect them to wear shoes that they made.
If you lay bricks for a living, how about coming coming home and building a brick wall in your back yard, just to se how brick layers feel.
I'd question why his home is made of straw

"Never trust a skinny chef"


You are trying to make a rule that developers play as we do, to see our frustrations. I don't think that's posible.
It is though. Take for example the FA. All they have to do is take a mid-range city and complete the spire one time from start to finish while stopping to hand in a badge every time they earn one.
Then do the same for the tournament. Then for 10 blacksmiths.

Less than an hour of real play testing their own game to see firsthand what we hate.
 

BrinDarby

Well-Known Member
You are trying to make a rule that developers play as we do, to see our frustrations.
Yes we are, and for good reason. I developer needs to have "playing the game" be
part of thier job description... There's a HUGE difference between a "developer" and
a "programmer" .... A programmer, is told what to accomplish, and its thier job to code
it, while a developer is making the decisions on what to tell the programmer to do....

You can't make a better tennis shoe, if all you do is wear flip-flops... you would have
NO frame of reference to draw on.... Same with the Devs, they need a constant frame
of reference, in order to make meaningfull changes to benefit us all......

and I guarentee you this : when a boss tells a developer to get a certain task done
in the next 2 hrs, and it takes them 1 hr just to give neighborly help on thier PC,
either they fix it, or they get fired because they constantly cannot meet the demands
of thier job.
 

able99

Well-Known Member
Yes, I understand you want a rule to make developers, "play and experience the game as we do"
The point I am making, is with the knowledge they have, it is not possible.
Even playing on the live servers and not using any cheats, I believe their reaction would still be "The game works as intended."
You are trying to have them see experience the difficulties in the game. Have you considered the difficulties may be there by design.