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Your Elvenar Team
Rune Shard changes
- Thread starter helya
- Start date
ajqtrz
Chef - loquacious Old Dog
We are trying the exchange route. The initiator puts in which AW he/she is targeting along with three AW's for which he/she is willing to use rune shards. The responder posts one of the three as his/her target. The initiator puts the shards on the responders chosen AW and then the responder finishes by putting the runes on the initators AW.. When the responder finishes he/she marks the transaction as "complete." It takes 4 messages but it also keeps things on track. We tried it just the initial msg and the response msg but people kept forgetting. The four step works for us. At this time we assume 10 shards per transaction, but may make that something the initiator decides. Like, "Crystal Lighthouse 7" followed by three AW he/she has rune shards he/she is willing to donate to the Responder. The "7", of course, could be any number...as long as there's room for the KP, of course.
In any case, it's pretty much the same as the 100KP exchange process we use and has no real overhead to worry about.
I do like the idea of a "pile on" type of thread and might try that. People just donate until the AW is done, then the next in the list is next. If nobody is allowed to put themselves in the list before everybody has a chance it should work out pretty easily. The only problem is if somebody puts an AW in the list to which nobody wants to donate, but with hundreds of rune shards, that won't happen for a while in my fs.
I calculate that since it takes about 25-30 Rune shards to do the rune phase, and the rune phase comes only every 5 rounds, all anybody needs to hold back is about 60 rune shards for the next two rune phases for their AW. My rune phases for my AW's happen pretty rarely -- 2-4 per year, so I suspect it will be a long, long time until I need to worry about holding back rune shards.
Those are my thoughts on using the new feature.
AJ
In any case, it's pretty much the same as the 100KP exchange process we use and has no real overhead to worry about.
I do like the idea of a "pile on" type of thread and might try that. People just donate until the AW is done, then the next in the list is next. If nobody is allowed to put themselves in the list before everybody has a chance it should work out pretty easily. The only problem is if somebody puts an AW in the list to which nobody wants to donate, but with hundreds of rune shards, that won't happen for a while in my fs.
I calculate that since it takes about 25-30 Rune shards to do the rune phase, and the rune phase comes only every 5 rounds, all anybody needs to hold back is about 60 rune shards for the next two rune phases for their AW. My rune phases for my AW's happen pretty rarely -- 2-4 per year, so I suspect it will be a long, long time until I need to worry about holding back rune shards.
Those are my thoughts on using the new feature.
AJ
MichaelMichael
Day and Night Trader
What is the deal on limits on using rune shards? How does that work?
I was happily trading lots of 75 KP with someone in my fellowship when my partner hit a message that I had "reached your limit on AW kp for today" I am curious how high that limit was? I suspect it had to do with shards. I successfully used KP instants on my AW after that point? I have about 5,000 extra shards and perhaps used 200-400 today and likely received a similar amount.
The current situation reminds me of Grizzly Bears in Alaska feasting on Salmon swimming upstream and jumping into the bear's mouth. Overall, I never did and never will think trading Rune Shards for KP made much sense, but I don't write the rules, I just play by them. The chore of liquidating my shard inventory into AW levels is actually pretty tedious. but one has to keep up with the Jones.
I was happily trading lots of 75 KP with someone in my fellowship when my partner hit a message that I had "reached your limit on AW kp for today" I am curious how high that limit was? I suspect it had to do with shards. I successfully used KP instants on my AW after that point? I have about 5,000 extra shards and perhaps used 200-400 today and likely received a similar amount.
The current situation reminds me of Grizzly Bears in Alaska feasting on Salmon swimming upstream and jumping into the bear's mouth. Overall, I never did and never will think trading Rune Shards for KP made much sense, but I don't write the rules, I just play by them. The chore of liquidating my shard inventory into AW levels is actually pretty tedious. but one has to keep up with the Jones.
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Darielle
Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
Since I'm the Spire Mage for our fellowship, I'm going to use this as a feature for our Spire pushes. Prizes ... first one to the top of the spire gets 15 kp in their favorite wonder. The others who make it will get 15 kp in a random wonder (depending upon what I've got the most of). Hopefully people will be glad to get an added prize in addition to the goodies virtually baked with love at the top of the spire for our push. First one to the top brings the virtual goodies of their choice; second one to the top brings the virtual drinks. Our spire push is in 9 days. I hope this goes over well.
Enevhar Aldarion
Oh Wise One
Inno does not want any exact numbers getting out, though the limit is a very large number. But as you and others have posted, it can still be reached if one person is getting loaded with KP, while not giving any, or enough, back to keep it balanced.
sambria
Chef
MagicPagan
Well-Known Member
Why would you do that? In addition to your AWs not working for you, no one can donate any KP to you - no instants, no earned (I do that when I am tech locked). Why not just say, "Please do not donate more than X KP to my Wonders?" That sounds like a bit of an overreaction to me.So at this point, I want to thank InnoGames for this new opportunity to rearrange my cities so that my Wonders can be taken off roads most of the time, to discourage players from randomly donating KPs. Who would have thought it would come to this.
And as to it "coming to this," I haven't heard anyone else ever suggesting it. I do not see anything that prevents anyone from refusing to use the feature in their own city - either on the giving or receiving end.
Lelanya
Scroll-Keeper, Keys to the Gems
As some pushers have gotten 'unlocked' by expressing their admiration for my hard stance, I don't feel that this is an overreaction.
crackie
Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
How dare you both! I refuse to accept this apology bc...you don’t owe me one? Besides, you’ll notice in @sambria ’s foreign language thread that nobody speaks fish fluently!
Oh my @ the butter to popcorn ratio. My type of dance! Reminds me of first time they switched to self-serve butter pumps at the movie theaters and my friend came back with a half translucent bucket of popcorn.
Yogi Dave
Well-Known Member
This is how I think the lock, limit, or whatever it's called when no one can donate to a person's AW happens. I'll call it locked.
It's basically a balance between what you have received from others in your AWs versus what you have contributed to others. You start with a positive balance which decreases by the amount of KP put in your AW and the KP received when you get a chest from others. I don't know if shards in a chest count as KP. Conversely, when you put KP in another person's AW and when people get chests from your AWs, your balance increases. Also, each day your balance increases a bit. Note that putting KP in your own AWs has no effect on the balance. When your balance drops to zero, you are locked and can't receive KP until it increases. I have no idea what happens if you receive a chest when locked. To get out of being locked, you need to give KP to someone's AW, someone get a chest from your AW, or a day goes by. Presumably decay time is used as the new day marker. I think that is it all there is to it.
At the same time this started the great rune shard sharing/dump of Feb. '22 started. So, many balances dropped to zero as thousands and thousands of shards were spent. Someone dumping a lot of shards in one or another of your AWs, will drop your balance fast. If many people help at once, it will probably drop to zero that day unless you counter donate to someone, anyone, but that's hard to do if you aren't online. I suspect shard wars will continue for a couple of weeks tapering off slowly, but always there. I have a bit over 9000 shards waiting, just waiting for the day.
PS: Please let me know if I'm wrong about this.
It's basically a balance between what you have received from others in your AWs versus what you have contributed to others. You start with a positive balance which decreases by the amount of KP put in your AW and the KP received when you get a chest from others. I don't know if shards in a chest count as KP. Conversely, when you put KP in another person's AW and when people get chests from your AWs, your balance increases. Also, each day your balance increases a bit. Note that putting KP in your own AWs has no effect on the balance. When your balance drops to zero, you are locked and can't receive KP until it increases. I have no idea what happens if you receive a chest when locked. To get out of being locked, you need to give KP to someone's AW, someone get a chest from your AW, or a day goes by. Presumably decay time is used as the new day marker. I think that is it all there is to it.
At the same time this started the great rune shard sharing/dump of Feb. '22 started. So, many balances dropped to zero as thousands and thousands of shards were spent. Someone dumping a lot of shards in one or another of your AWs, will drop your balance fast. If many people help at once, it will probably drop to zero that day unless you counter donate to someone, anyone, but that's hard to do if you aren't online. I suspect shard wars will continue for a couple of weeks tapering off slowly, but always there. I have a bit over 9000 shards waiting, just waiting for the day.
PS: Please let me know if I'm wrong about this.
MaidenFair
Chef - Head Philologist
My understanding is that this 'locking' system has actually been in place for quite a while but it was pretty much only the illegal push accounts who ever hit the limit before so it wasn't widely known about. Otherwise, I think you summed it up quite nicely.
ajqtrz
Chef - loquacious Old Dog
Yogi Dave
Well-Known Member
Thanks. I was led to believe it was in place, but the balance was not limited as it is now. The main thing is now people are seeing it -or- rather not seeing it unless someone tells them they are locked.
ajqtrz
Chef - loquacious Old Dog
Another idea on how to do the rune shard exchange.
Somebody initiates a specific AW Rune Shard Exchange thread by naming it with the AW name. "Martial Monastery Rune Shard Exchange," for instance. They then list their MM and the amount they have remaining. The next player enters their MM and amount, and the two of them form a team. If a third player joins the thread they need to wait for the fourth entry. Done in pairs.
Example: Player 1 starts a Flying Academy Rune Shard Advertising. He/she put in "1 FA 450". I come along and have 600 needed for my FA. I put in "2 FA 600" Other players come along and put in their FA number, numbering them as they go. The need for "FA" is only to insure they are posting to the right thread. The need for the number is so we can track which have been fulfilled, and which haven't.
When a player sees an acceptable offer (usually the next one) he/she contacts the advertiser of the FA and the two of them, privately, start the exchange. The reason it's done privately is because the thread might become so clogged with messages about on-going transactions it would be difficult to track who is doing what. In any case, say I'm player 2 and I contact player 1 with my desire to accept the trade. I put in "I accept advert 1 for 450KP" That's "advertisement 1" and the amount. I then wait for player one to acknowledge since I can't be sure somebody else hasn't beaten me to it. If Player 1 responds with "okay" (probably in the form of Okay, adverts 1 and 2 for 450" I go to his/her AW and put in 450. Then I send player 1 a msg, "450KP to your FA done." He/she then goes to my FA and puts in the 450, sending me a notice that such has been done. I then post in the Advertising thread "FA 1 and 2 complete"...this tells everybody advert 1 and 2 are "withdrawn" a having been done.
Meanwhile, player 3 has listed FA 300. I still have 150 needed for my FA so I can just relist as "FA 150," and wait for somebody to pick it up, or approach player 3 in the same way I did player 1. In that case the transaction would be about "advert 3 and 4" of course.
The difference between this and the Rune Shard Exchange thread mentioned above is that this is a form of advertising specific to the AW being advertised and, because of that, a bit more complicated. Still, it may be a way to stimulate and encourage Rune Shard exchanges.
More thoughts as we sort it all out.
AJ
Somebody initiates a specific AW Rune Shard Exchange thread by naming it with the AW name. "Martial Monastery Rune Shard Exchange," for instance. They then list their MM and the amount they have remaining. The next player enters their MM and amount, and the two of them form a team. If a third player joins the thread they need to wait for the fourth entry. Done in pairs.
Example: Player 1 starts a Flying Academy Rune Shard Advertising. He/she put in "1 FA 450". I come along and have 600 needed for my FA. I put in "2 FA 600" Other players come along and put in their FA number, numbering them as they go. The need for "FA" is only to insure they are posting to the right thread. The need for the number is so we can track which have been fulfilled, and which haven't.
When a player sees an acceptable offer (usually the next one) he/she contacts the advertiser of the FA and the two of them, privately, start the exchange. The reason it's done privately is because the thread might become so clogged with messages about on-going transactions it would be difficult to track who is doing what. In any case, say I'm player 2 and I contact player 1 with my desire to accept the trade. I put in "I accept advert 1 for 450KP" That's "advertisement 1" and the amount. I then wait for player one to acknowledge since I can't be sure somebody else hasn't beaten me to it. If Player 1 responds with "okay" (probably in the form of Okay, adverts 1 and 2 for 450" I go to his/her AW and put in 450. Then I send player 1 a msg, "450KP to your FA done." He/she then goes to my FA and puts in the 450, sending me a notice that such has been done. I then post in the Advertising thread "FA 1 and 2 complete"...this tells everybody advert 1 and 2 are "withdrawn" a having been done.
Meanwhile, player 3 has listed FA 300. I still have 150 needed for my FA so I can just relist as "FA 150," and wait for somebody to pick it up, or approach player 3 in the same way I did player 1. In that case the transaction would be about "advert 3 and 4" of course.
The difference between this and the Rune Shard Exchange thread mentioned above is that this is a form of advertising specific to the AW being advertised and, because of that, a bit more complicated. Still, it may be a way to stimulate and encourage Rune Shard exchanges.
More thoughts as we sort it all out.
AJ
OIM20
Well-Known Member
@helya - I have someone in one of my Fellowships asking if they will activate the AW limit on themselves by using their pile of Rune Shards on their own AWs. They've been playing for years now, so they have quite a lot of Rune Shards.
I'm afraid we're all not quite sure how the limit thing works since it's never been an issue for any of us before.
I'm afraid we're all not quite sure how the limit thing works since it's never been an issue for any of us before.
Enevhar Aldarion
Oh Wise One
No, I can tell you from the Beta testing that it is only when other people give you KP. What you use on yourself does not count for that and you can still use KP for yourself even when others cannot give you any.
OIM20
Well-Known Member
Thanks, @Enevhar Aldarion!