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    Your Elvenar Team

Selling culture items purchased with diamonds

  • Thread starter DeletedUser3312
  • Start date

Should culture that was purchased with diamonds receive coins and hammers back when sold?


  • Total voters
    20

DeletedUser2870

Guest
Let's look a the TOTAL cost of a building.
Code:
Total = Initial Cost - Rebates
To maintain the current pricing balance, the equation would have to be
Code:
Total = Initial Cost including Rebates - Rebates
The current pricing approach keeps the INITIAL cost of premium objects as low as possible and it used to be quite clear that premium object were disposable.

If you get a rebate on the BACK END, you have to raise the price on the FRONT END, or else you're just begging for cheaper premium objects.

You keep bringing up non-arguments.
The price for premiumbuildings is exclusively in diamonds. There is NO in-game way of earning those, they can only be bought for real money.
That same real money is where Innogames makes its profit and what pays their bills.
The 'rebate' I'm asking for is in no way related to real money, but only an in-game article, namely supplies. This is in no way relevant to the diamonds paid for the building. Meaning it is no real rebate at all.
The amount I'm suggesting to be returned is so low that it is in no way unbalancing.

If you cannot understand the difference between real value and an in-game, non-negotionable, non-returnable, one-time-only-useable resource like the supplies in this game there is no use in arguing, since you insist on comparing two things that are so far removed from each other that they cannot be compared.

You keep handling it as if this rebate would actually cost Innogames anything. IT DOES NOT.
Your argument only would be valid if the rebate on premium-buildings were to be expressed in real money, or diamonds expressing them, returned to the player. This is not the case I make.
If you buy a car (lets assume not using financing, just paying for it) then return it 2-3 years later (like the building 2-3 chapters later) you get part of the value of the car back. That can be in cash, or in a rebate on a new one, or offers for free upgrades on the new car or whatever.
But that is real value for value.
If that carsdealer would offer you free air for your tires and a gallon of free oil and no handling fee for the next time you fill her up, you'd probably not consider that a rebate either, nor a serious selling price.

If you want to raise the prices in diamonds for premiumbuildings by 10% but then also say that players will get back 10% when the building is sold, fine. Value for value.

Here however I'm talking about something that does not cost Inno anything, so it is not a rebate. It is treating the premiumbuildings the same way as regular buildings by giving something in return when SELLING them. Mind, it says SELL on the button....not scrap.
If it is to be sold, there has to be return value, even if it's only something as small as supplies.

Also, it is a courtesy towards their (or is it perhaps also your?) paying customers, who already have been treated pretty badly by the company.
Besides, it is not exactly an exceptional strategy. Actually, I've played games for a long time now. I played PBM games, later PBeM games, then online games. In EVERY other game I ever played, it was normal to get at least some token back for investing real money. Elvenar is the only game I ever played that does not.

The only other serious way I see of handling this is one that I personally would dislike, but that is creating a kind of storage, where premiumbuildings will be moved to when you take them out so that they are not lost, but re-usable since they have been paid for. But that creates a problem because owners of premiumbuildings would get an opportunity to much easier reconstruct their city. So, a building put there should not be allowed to be put back for a week or so.
However, I am strongly opposed to creating a kind of storage for buildings exactly because of that reorganising effect.

The Magic Residence and the Magic Workshop can now be purchased and upgraded with Diamonds, which muddies the water a bit, but there's still no rebate.
Again, non-comparable.
These buildings are supposed to be upgradable. And were sold as such, then weren't...which is fraud. (I guess they will finally become so after the next update if I read correctly on the beta-forum, let's hope so).
But these buildings are waaaaaaaaaaaay less likely to be sold because they have the in-built capacity of growing along with the progress a player makes. So, they can be upgraded, in which case it doesn't really make sense to sell them anyway, even more so because one is supposed to be able to upgrade them after the advanced scouts, meaning before even unlocking the tech to upgrade the regular buildings. So these buildings will then give a player a very nice advantage, which btw was exactly why I bought several.
But even in that case my argument would be that since someone paid a pretty steep price in real money for them, it would definitely make sense to return at least an amount of supplies if anyone planned on selling them.

If your argument would be that premium-cultural buildings need to get that ability too I'm all ears and all in favor. If one can upgrade them the whole point of selling them will become almost moot anyway.
 

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
@Dhurrin Katwijk does have a point that with your suggestion of tools and coins upon the sale of a building would increase the value.

Right now you get:
building #1 for 100 diamonds
You suggest to get
building #1 for 100 diamonds plus 500 supplies and 2,000 coins when you sell it

So yes, the value you would get for spending diamonds on culture buildings would be better.

That being said, if I had customers buying temporary pixels for RL$ I'd try to keep them happy with some non-premium stuff like a few 1000 supplies/coins to encourage them to keep buying things they have to replace next month.
 

DeletedUser2870

Guest
@SoggyShorts

No I did not. At no point in any post on this subject have I mentioned coins, I've been talking about supplies only.
Also, as stated before: the button says sell, not scrap. A sale has by definition a return of value for something, otherwise it will be called a gift.

And though the value of the diamonds to players would increase a bit, it is in no way unbalancing and would only make it easier and more likely t buy them again.
Asking people to invest money and then throw it away is a bad business model...they don't rent the expansions for a limited time either.
 

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
@Dhurrin
My mistake, just supplies then, but the point still stands.
EDIT: I had you and the OP mixed up, thought you both mentioned coins.
Personally I think you should get some diamonds back, but my guess is they would jack the prices by the same amount first, then offer you diamonds when you sell stuff.
Is there some fine print saying that there are no RL$ returns for diamonds? Otherwise people could sell all of their diamond stuff before quitting.
 

DeletedUser2870

Guest
@SoggyShorts
Even though the value for players would increase a little bit, the prices they ask for diamonds already were rather steep when compared to other games. Giving nothing in return is not going to make it more likely that players are going to buy more.

And yes, I'm sure they will not be refunding. That is a pretty standard thing in games anyway.
 

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
the prices they ask for diamonds already were rather steep when compared to other games.
I find the prices in most FTP games to be unbalanced, but Elvenar is indeed worse than many. When I first started I checked out the premium system, and the first one that caught my eye was expansions 450 diamonds(not knowing they increase) vs 10 KP 450 diamonds. Right then I knew I'd have to be VERY careful not to rip myself off.
Troops were another one, no way was I going to replace 1 dead stack of troops for a few dollars when I could just wait a couple hours...smh

In this sense INNO was correct to increase the cost of expansions by 400%. They are by far the most valuable thing you can buy (arguments for more builders could be made)
Where they went wrong was in thinking the rest of the prices were right. IMO they should have lowered the diamond cost of everything else compared to expansions, and kept expansions under $20 if they wanted to "balance the prices to reflect their value"
 
Heck, we shouldn't have to throw them away -there should be storage for them. At the very least, the Premiums should function like upgrades: buy one for x diamonds, upgrade for x more diamonds.

Another vote for storage. Sometimes cultural buildings need to be removed to free up space for upgrades. I got rid of my Wonky Walter tent, fully expecting it to be stored under my inventory tab. Nope, it was gone.
 

DeletedUser5196

Guest
I think that they should have some storage. It would encourage more fun game play if everything wasnt lost. The game is slow moving unless you use diamonds to liven up the game. So if they want you to buy diamonds you should at the very least be able to store the items and get a small diamond refund if you just want to sell it. Even if it is just 10% its still something and if offering that bankrupts the game then they have bigger problems than just barely getting by with the tiniest of profits from diamond purchases.
 

DeletedUser5196

Guest
I think that they should have some storage. It would encourage more fun game play if everything wasnt lost. The game is slow moving unless you use diamonds to liven up the game. So if they want you to buy diamonds you should at the very least be able to store the items and get a small diamond refund if you just want to sell it. Even if it is just 10% its still something and if offering that bankrupts the game then they have bigger problems than just barely getting by with the tiniest of profits from diamond purchases.
 

DeletedUser5157

Guest
I would very much like to see storage for diamond-purchased items. Never mind getting something for storing them, the expansions aren't a temporary thing. Yes, it would make it easier. That's what spending our real money is supposed to get us: ease. Until something is done to fix this I will not be buying any other cultural premium items...

heck, it's not like them giving us back 50% of the diamonds we paid for that item is them giving us back money. It's not like we can refund diamonds into real cash. It's just a few pixels. And what would we do with that 50% refund? Buy some more diamonds so we can buy another bigger cultural item. Just make the amount that's refunded just small enough that it's encouraging us to buy more. HECK. Give us a DISCOUNT COUPON for our next diamond purchase if we have to sell a premium cultural item. If I got a 20% off my next diamond purchase for having to sell my premium item, I would probably then turn around and buy more things...
 

DeletedUser828

Guest
Don't bother trying to make a point with Katwijk, he's mute to any opinion except for his own. He doesn't grasp that Supplies don't cost the company anything , Zero dollars to compensate having to sell off a Diamond bought culture item. It can be easily implemented since they are returned on all of the basic buildings.
 
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