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    Your Elvenar Team

Discussion Spire of Eternity feedback

Alistaire

Well-Known Member
If this is a new weekly recurring event are there plans to adjust the resources needed for the stuff we already have? A lot of players do as much as they can in tournaments and this seems like it'll stretch all those same resources even further.

Maybe semi-related, but I posted on, and got a lot of support from other posters, about tournament resources and how squad size upgrades (specifically the optional ones) here: https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index....one-about-optional-squad-size-upgrades.20689/

This sounds like this new weekly event would make that issue even more important to address. Can you take a look at that, please?
 

Pheryll

Well-Known Member
Did that change or did I just misunderstand something I read somewhere (?beta forum maybe? can't remember)? I saw something that indicated the formula for difficulty had your number of AW levels as a multiplier. Of course I can't find it now...
You are right, they did change it from just being straight chapter. As per Marindor:

Hi guys,

The Spire difficulty is based on a lot of factors, Ancient Wonder levels being by far the smallest of them. Their influence is very little, but yes, as you progress in the game, the Spire difficulty increases with that and AW levels are just one of the many parameters (as said: the smallest in fact) by which account progression is measured :)
 

qaccy

Well-Known Member
I remember looking over its initial release on beta and thinking that tournaments are a far better use of my time and resources. The way I saw it, the Spire cost more goods, was harder if not outright impossible to battle through thanks to the multiple waves, and had overall worse rewards. Unless things have since been massively adjusted, I expect that to still be the case. and will probably be passing this feature over.

Of course, I will still be looking at this first live version to see if all of this is still true.
 

HJK84

Well-Known Member
I like such things.
I realized I could get much more points in Tournaments, cause my Goods just keeps going up. This new Spire "thingy" might just be enough to keep me more balanced and interested. (waiting 3 months for WW's to run out and doing nothing is taxing, and I dislike the current Mermaid Event)

Bring it Inno!:cool:
 

The Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
Just stay the hell away from this flaming turd...

the main issues right from about 5min of playing on beta:
a) The squad sizes are insane!! Like, up to 3x your normal squad size levels of insane... oh, and it's ALL 3* enemies, so yet again, INNO screws over everyone under Ch.10 or so.

b) The prizes SUCK.
You will spend most/all of your troops & resources in a futile attempt to clear Lv3, and you'll be extremely lucky to win much of anything beyond coin/supply instants + spell fragments and a few CC's with the odd handful of diamonds. (WW's are still a *MUCH* better source of 'free' dias;))

c) The Negotiation feature is broken as feth...
You see, in FoE, which is where this feature comes from, it is possible to gain a 4th turn for negotiating in the weekly guild expiditions. (which the spire is the world's crappiest copy of btw!:p)
Here though, there is NO way to gain a 4th turn, meaning any negotiation with 6+ options is basically down to just sheer dumb RNG luck if you can pass it... even after say, 4 or 5 attempts at the same encounter!lol.
Likewise, when FoE expanded this negotiation game to events, negotiations that required 6+ options simply gave a 4th turn to help balance out the expanded choices.
Oh, and again, the costs for each attempt are stupidly high, because INNO are clueless about how to even play their own game.

So yeah, just ignore this pile of crap...
It's barely playable, costs so many resources your entire city will grind to halt, (unless you're 100% finished the tech tree of course!), and rewards 95% useless garbage.

If none of us play it, then Inno will be forced to pull their collective heads out of the underside and properly balance this thing...

Yes I'm being harsh, but honestly, they had a near-perfect template to copy from with FoE's guild expedition, except they managed to take everything great about that feature, and make it a near-unplayable disaster here! >.<
 

arayla

Well-Known Member
Just stay the hell away from this flaming turd...

the main issues right from about 5min of playing on beta:
a) The squad sizes are insane!! Like, up to 3x your normal squad size levels of insane... oh, and it's ALL 3* enemies, so yet again, INNO screws over everyone under Ch.10 or so.

b) The prizes SUCK.
You will spend most/all of your troops & resources in a futile attempt to clear Lv3, and you'll be extremely lucky to win much of anything beyond coin/supply instants + spell fragments and a few CC's with the odd handful of diamonds. (WW's are still a *MUCH* better source of 'free' dias;))

c) The Negotiation feature is broken as feth...
You see, in FoE, which is where this feature comes from, it is possible to gain a 4th turn for negotiating in the weekly guild expiditions. (which the spire is the world's crappiest copy of btw!:p)
Here though, there is NO way to gain a 4th turn, meaning any negotiation with 6+ options is basically down to just sheer dumb RNG luck if you can pass it... even after say, 4 or 5 attempts at the same encounter!lol.
Likewise, when FoE expanded this negotiation game to events, negotiations that required 6+ options simply gave a 4th turn to help balance out the expanded choices.
Oh, and again, the costs for each attempt are stupidly high, because INNO are clueless about how to even play their own game.

So yeah, just ignore this pile of crap...
It's barely playable, costs so many resources your entire city will grind to halt, (unless you're 100% finished the tech tree of course!), and rewards 95% useless garbage.

If none of us play it, then Inno will be forced to pull their collective heads out of the underside and properly balance this thing...

Yes I'm being harsh, but honestly, they had a near-perfect template to copy from with FoE's guild expedition, except they managed to take everything great about that feature, and make it a near-unplayable disaster here! >.<
I feel like you must have played the Spire when it first got released to Beta and not tried recently.

I've cleared Map 1 and 2 for the past 2 weeks, after they have worked out the issues. I've both negotiated and fought. I've won many CC spells, many spell fragments, almost the entire Spire set (just missing the Moonstone Gate), and 2 of the Dwarven Armorers.

Yes, it costs goods and/or troops, but not out of line with the rewards. I play hard in each tourney and still have plenty of goods and troops left as long as I monitor how much I spend while I'm in the Spire.
 

Azkaban

Guest
Here though, there is NO way to gain a 4th turn
Um...actually, it's exactly the same as it is in the Guild Expedition. You get your three allotted tries, then after that you pay with diamonds if you want to proceed. I had no problem getting through my run last night.


Seriously, it's not that bad. Play it if you want to, don't play it if you don't want to, same as the Tournaments, the FA, the Events. It's not like the Spire is going to break the game.
 

qaccy

Well-Known Member
@The Unbeliever @Azkaban I want to correct both of you, even though this is all off-topic here on an Elvenar forum. An extra 4th turn is available, but this doesn't come from the Guild Expedition. It comes from the Friends Tavern, which is an entirely different feature that Elvenar does not have. Take that away and negotiating in GE is pretty much identical to the diplomacy minigame in the Spire. Additionally, the Friends Tavern was added 6 months after the release of GE which meant diamonds were the only way to get extra turns initially.

@arayla Is that so? I'm very curious to hear more. How far advanced is your city? How much is 'playing hard' in the tournaments? I typically play at least 30 provinces out to the full 6 rounds and I'm at the end of the research tree, and while I'm on average gaining goods over time, my troops generally stay at about the same level week to week so it feels like I wouldn't be able to squeeze in much Spire participation without the use of boosters or diamonds, or lowering my tournament play which is out of the question for me.
 

StarryElf

Guest
The other thing about the Spire that makes it underwhelming compared to Forge of Empires Guild Expeditions are the mystery chests. It appears these have a fixed percentage per each encounter. In FoE's GE, there is a Great Building called the Temple of Relics that gives players the chance to find bonus prizes after each encounter similar to the mystery chests. However, you can actually manipulate the chances by upgrading the Temple of Relics to a really high level which will drastically improve the chances of getting a jade relic (equivalent to legendary chest) for each encounter.

I don't really play Elvenar anymore but still pop on here from time to time. The Spire peaked my interest but I'm still probably going to prefer Guild Expeditions.
 

arayla

Well-Known Member
@arayla Is that so? I'm very curious to hear more. How far advanced is your city? How much is 'playing hard' in the tournaments? I typically play at least 30 provinces out to the full 6 rounds and I'm at the end of the research tree, and while I'm on average gaining goods over time, my troops generally stay at about the same level week to week so it feels like I wouldn't be able to squeeze in much Spire participation without the use of boosters or diamonds, or lowering my tournament play which is out of the question for me.
My city is post-Chapter 14. After finishing the guest race, I filled up the extra space with T1 and T2 manus, so 5 T1, 3 T2, 2 T3, plus 1 each of the sentient. My goods levels have been completely fine playing the Spire. (Details: ~2mil of each T1, ~3mil of each T2, ~3.5mil of each T3, ~50k of each sentient, 800k orcs, 3mil mana, 350k seeds.) I do trade a bit more to stay balanced now. My supplies are running low all the time, but I have 800 PoP spells to use so I'm not worried there. I estimate that I negotiate about 90% of the Spire. I am successful within the 3 guesses 75% of the time. I don't spend the 25 diamonds to get the extra guess, even though every single time I only need to correct one guess and I know what is needed. I'm stubborn like that when diamonds are concerned.

I looked and have a 3479 tourney average. Before the Spire, I would run out of at least 1 troop type each tourney. After playing the Spire when it was first released, I spent 2 weeks restraining myself in the tourney (about 2000 each week) and built up all my levels (except for frogs since I don't find them very useful usually). I use pet food on my fire phoenix every day that I play in the tourney. I will use auto-fight in the Spire if I already have a fed phoenix. I feel like my troop losses would be too high to auto-fight the Spire without the phoenix.

Here is my Beta city on elvenstats for the curious: https://www.elvenstats.com/player/zz1/62069
 

qaccy

Well-Known Member
@Azkaban You said that diamonds were necessary to get additional turns past the initial three, which is incorrect due to the Friends Tavern. Doesn't really matter if you make use of it or not, the option is still there for an additional turn that doesn't require diamonds.

@arayla Very informative, thank you! You've got a lot more than I do in the way of goods, but that sounds like it could be due to my own performance in tournaments. Even though I do try to battle as much as I can, occasionally a 'forced' cater comes up which adds up if it's a high province that asks for a total of 100k goods or more...the Scrolls tournament is primarily catering for me so I tend to skip that one for this reason. I'm wondering if I'll be able to field the additional goods cost to play through the Spire even a little bit since it sounds like fighting is still out of the question. Do you negotiate simply because you have the resources to do so or is it because fighting is too difficult?
 

Azkaban

Guest
@Azkaban You said that diamonds were necessary to get additional turns past the initial three, which is incorrect due to the Friends Tavern. Doesn't really matter if you make use of it or not, the option is still there for an additional turn that doesn't require diamonds.
You've made your point. I don't use the Friends Tavern for this. Let's leave it at that.
 

arayla

Well-Known Member
You've got a lot more than I do in the way of goods, but that sounds like it could be due to my own performance in tournaments. <snip> I'm wondering if I'll be able to field the additional goods cost to play through the Spire even a little bit since it sounds like fighting is still out of the question. Do you negotiate simply because you have the resources to do so or is it because fighting is too difficult?
@qaccy I would keep only a million goods in inventory, but I make more to support my FS for those who cater. Thinking back, in the earlier chapters before Woodelves, I would have been unable to cater the Spire plus do the tourney plus grow my city. I would have been able to manual fight thru the Spire though.

I negotiate in the Spire 100% due to my love of logic puzzles. I learned how to manual fight from my great (and patient) friend @Yogi Dave just for the Spire, but then the Spire negotiating got balanced and I really enjoy it.