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    Your Elvenar Team

Spire Perks

EyeScream

Member
After long discussion with other FS members I am trying to get a hold on the point of spire perk points. Situation:

Everyone adds to the tourney and at the end of the tourney everyone is rewarded regardless of how much they contributed and get all 6 chests based on maybe completing the 6th chest with perk points.

Spire: Everyone contributes but some people just get to first gate, others way beyond and lets say that the highest person gets to High Halls (HH's) then we add the perk points of 150 and the bar goes up. Spire ends.. What does everyone get? Should not everyone get the rewards of the perk points height? I think so. I understand that some people put in LOADS more then others,. but if the points exceed the level of the person who is the highest based on contribution what is the point of the perk points if no one reaches the level of the points? I am seriously at a loss here for understanding why we add perk points to make the bar go higher but no one gets the rewards unless they are at that level? can someone please explain, laymen please..

Thanks
 

iamthouth

Well-Known Member
You receive the spire rewards from the column on the right based on your own performance. If equal or higher than the purple bar, you get all to that point, if lower you get the chests you have unlocked. Purple bar won't exceed points of the highest person (unless you use perk points).
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
Probably diamonds is my guess. You don't get diamonds in the Tourney group rewards, but you do in Spire. At the end of each section gets you a decent amount of diamonds. If you don't do the work, you don't get the diamonds. If it worked like Tourney, if you do one notch of Gateway, you could potentially be eligible for up to 250 diamonds. Don't think that's good for a company's bottom line.
 

Darielle

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
I would assume that no one would ever use perk points if the highest people were still not high enough to attain that level. You would only use perk points to help those who have reached a high level, in order to reward your highest players and provide incentive to the lower ones to aspire to such heights.

We use spire perk points mainly on our gold spire pushes, which occur every nine weeks (although we are thinking about increasing that to 1x a month.) We go all out to try to get as high as possible, and we usually have about 15 who achieve gold. They deserve to get perks to put them over the top, and it's a great reward to them for doing so much to help the fellowship. Frankly, I love the spire perks :)
 

EyeScream

Member
again this makes no sense for using perk points then.. the perk points are higher then the highest person but the gain is nothing if no one is at that height? I am not even aware of what you mean by diamonds. The points be it perk or not everyone should receive the rewards of the points not the level you are at in the spire on your own contributions. I understand that many people might hate this idea, but I still don't understand at the last moment adding perk points gets you.. If someone has reached a high level in the spire they are are already guaranteed the rewards up to their level., what is the point of adding addition points from perks? Why use the perk points if no one is going to benefit the rewards of the points if they have not reached that level?
 

Flashfyre

Well-Known Member
Say my FS reaches the Silver level, and a little beyond, but not enough to open the next node. I, however, have passed that node, and am climbing higher. If the Spire ends now, I only get the Silver level rewards, along with everyone who reached that level. If my FS spends perks to open that next node, I will get those rewards as well (because I passed it), but no one else will. This is by design; the Spire is only co-operative in accruing points to open the nodes, not in gaining the same rewards for everyone (regardless of how high they climbed).
 

EyeScream

Member
okay I get it.. So basically you reward the people who have designed their cities for combat with troops that can essentially climb the spire ladder. Those others that are trying to contribute but don't have the resources or maybe they spend them to help out the lower level FS members don't get anything. Only the people that design their city based on wanting to do the spire and tourney based primarily on the amount of AW's that help troops along with the buildings essential for making troops and having enough supplies to keep that going are rewarded. So the bottom line is that whoever in your FS of 25 or 6 that takes the spire seriously for the Magic residences and great really great rewards should be a MAGE and capable of tossing in those points when it makes the most sense for ONLY them. Okay.. I understand now..
 

Darielle

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
If someone has reached a high level in the spire they are are already guaranteed the rewards up to their level., what is the point of adding addition points from perks?
No, they aren't guaranteed the rewards up to their level. Say I climb to the top of the spire, but no one else in the fellowship does and the purple bar on the side never reaches me. I don't get the gold rewards.
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
I am not even aware of what you mean by diamonds.
If you push the purple bar to end of Gateway, it's 50 diamonds for people who reach that threshold. At end of High Halls, it's 75 diamonds. To the very top, it's another 125 diamonds. So if you push the purple to the very top, it's 250 total diamonds for everyone who finish the Spire. Therefore, if you treat it like Tourney, someone who does one lone encounter in the whole Spire could potentially net 250 diamonds if their FS push the purple bar all the way to the top. That's not a good business model to give away premium game currency to people who put in minimal effort.
Only the people that design their city based on wanting to do the spire and tourney based primarily on the amount of AW's that help troops along with the buildings essential for making troops and having enough supplies to keep that going are rewarded. So the bottom line is that whoever in your FS of 25 or 6 that takes the spire seriously for the Magic residences and great really great rewards should be a MAGE and capable of tossing in those points when it makes the most sense for ONLY them. Okay.. I understand now..
There is no one “correct” way to finish a Spire so perhaps your own misconceptions for solving it are halting your own Spire progress. It can be fully fought, fully catered, or some of each. The correct answer is whatever works for your city. I fully catered the Spire from Chap 3 to 8 (Orcs). Now in Chap 14, I fight half. I fight half of Gateway, cater to High Halls, and fight Lab. Even here, @iamthouth and I show we solve it differently for what works for us.

The Spire Archive is probably best used to push the purple bar up to the end of a section for reason for the diamonds. It's prob not meaningful to spend it to get one more notch if it's not at the end of a section. It's useful even for Gold Spire FS because every FS has turnover. It lets them get their diamonds when people are out for vacation, health, work, or any other reason, but you could just as well use it to push it to meet Silver rewards.

There will be less frustration for everyone involved if you play with players that share similar in-game goals. Not everyone cares about the Spire. Simple as that. However, if a player really cares about the Spire, go play with others who also want Spire diamonds. Find a FS with like-minded players and get your diamonds. Let the people who want to skip the Spire or be super casual about it do whatever they want in the Spire. Otherwise, people who don’t want to Spire stress out over it and it becomes more work than play when it’s supposed to be a game, and people who want to Spire resent the slackers for not contributing enough.
 

ed1960

Buddy Fan Club member
For clarification, there are TWO sets of rewards in the spire
1. Your rewards based on how high you progress up the levels.
2. the FS rewards based on the cumulative score of all members.

Only the second is affected by the spire perk points that can be applied to move the purple bar up a defined amount.

Ed
 

EyeScream

Member
thank you for all your responses.. The bottom line is this:

Let the people who want to skip the Spire or be super casual about it do whatever they want in the Spire. Otherwise, people who don’t want to Spire stress out over it and it becomes more work than play when it’s supposed to be a game, and people who want to Spire resent the slackers for not contributing enough.

that really says it all.. Thank you..
 

samidodamage

Buddy Fan Club member
People complained for years about dragging slackers to the 10th chest and rewarding them with a blueprint for slacking as much as they could get away with. Spire was specifically structured from the first release of the multi-player portion to only allow players to participate in rewards at the level they were willing to actually reach. Spire has always been this way and has nothing to do with the Spire Archive Perk.

Without Archive points it takes a minimum of 21 players (plus one other player completing ?HighHalls? can't remember but it's 7 more points) reaching the top to achieve Spire Gold reward. Of course other combos will get you there, too.
It is tough to get that many people to agree to do anything consistently, lol! So, yes, it creates issues between the hard-core Spire players and the slackers if getting more FS rewards is important to the hard core player. In one FS, I've been topping the Spire weekly since about 3-4 months after it launched. I saw my first Gold FS Spire rewards there this past February. So, I'm a hard core Spire player who places less importance on receiving those rewards in that city. There's lots of reasons I stay there, but I have seen other hard core Spire players leave for Gold FS's. Perfectly acceptable as far as I'm concerned: their needs weren't being met by this FS. This FS is not designed to meet the needs of every player. I'll stay as long as it meets mine.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
Spire points are most beneficial to the fellowships that already get Gold, but barely do it. With the stored points, they do not have to worry if a player is unavailable who would normally help get Gold, because they can then spend the points to cover the missing person. And the same is true for a fellowship that barely gets Silver or Bronze every week. Buy a couple of levels in the Spire perk and store 100 or 150 points and then the players who do the work do not lose out when someone can't do their normal points.

But yeah, no matter what someone does in the Spire, the only group rewards they win are the ones where the player progress and the purple bar/group progress match.
 

getmomo

Active Member
thank you for all your responses.. The bottom line is this:

Let the people who want to skip the Spire or be super casual about it do whatever they want in the Spire. Otherwise, people who don’t want to Spire stress out over it and it becomes more work than play when it’s supposed to be a game, and people who want to Spire resent the slackers for not contributing enough.

that really says it all.. Thank you..

If you are into spire and want to go to the top every week then you should be in a FS that pushes for spire. If you don't like spire than find a FS that doesn't push spire. There are many different play styles out there and you should be in a FS that fits your playing style.
 

ajqtrz

Chef
okay I get it.. So basically you reward the people who have designed their cities for combat with troops that can essentially climb the spire ladder. Those others that are trying to contribute but don't have the resources or maybe they spend them to help out the lower level FS members don't get anything. Only the people that design their city based on wanting to do the spire and tourney based primarily on the amount of AW's that help troops along with the buildings essential for making troops and having enough supplies to keep that going are rewarded. So the bottom line is that whoever in your FS of 25 or 6 that takes the spire seriously for the Magic residences and great really great rewards should be a MAGE and capable of tossing in those points when it makes the most sense for ONLY them. Okay.. I understand now..
I almost never use troops to climb the Spire. I "convince" my way to the top. So you can get the same rewards if you haven't "designed [your] city for combat with troops that can essentially climb the spire ladder."

On the other hand, I never realized that only those above the final "perk points added" level get that level. I thought it was good for everybody.

AJ
 

mucksterme

Well-Known Member
People talking about FS's that push the spire and whatnot

Let me tell you my experience
I liked the spire from the beginning
But there were people in my FS that didn't. They said all the same things you'd hear on the forum, "Waste of resources", "Prizes not worth it"
Once we did a couple of gold pushes people got on board. When you do gold every week you get things you need for other parts of the game, like crafting and FA's.
Now no one really discusses the spire. It is just an accepted part of our FS. It's probably been about 12 years ( give or take a decade ) since we didn't get gold.

okay I get it.. So basically you reward the people who have designed their cities for combat with troops that can essentially climb the spire ladder. Those others that are trying to contribute but don't have the resources or maybe they spend them to help out the lower level FS members don't get anything. Only the people that design their city based on wanting to do the spire and tourney based primarily on the amount of AW's that help troops along with the buildings essential for making troops and having enough supplies to keep that going are rewarded. So the bottom line is that whoever in your FS of 25 or 6 that takes the spire seriously for the Magic residences and great really great rewards should be a MAGE and capable of tossing in those points when it makes the most sense for ONLY them. Okay.. I understand now..

I may be misinterpreting but this sounds awful whiny to me. In my ear you sound like a fifteen year old girl saying, "Oh I get it. You only invited the cheerleaders"
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
But there were people in my FS that didn't. They said all the same things you'd hear on the forum, "Waste of resources", "Prizes not worth it"
Once we did a couple of gold pushes people got on board. When you do gold every week you get things you need for other parts of the game, like crafting and FA's.

Except there are very few fellowships that get Gold each week, maybe 10-20 per server out of hundreds of active fellowships per server. But any decent fellowship should be able to make Silver every week. Now that may be mean some members completing the entire thing and other members only completing the 1st floor, but Silver should be the aim, especially since it only takes 14 members all completing the 1st and 2nd floors to earn Silver. And that means 125 diamonds every week for each one that makes it that far, plus one shot each week at each Magic building.
 

Flashfyre

Well-Known Member
@EyeScream Here's the thing: Spire and Tourney are 2 different types of "team" activities.

Tourney is like football (both kinds), or baseball, or basketball: the members of the team all play their parts in scoring points, and are rewarded as a group. Some will actually do the scoring (getting the ball into the hoop/net or across the line), others will do things that assist those who score (block opponents, pass the ball across the field, sacrifice at bat). So in the Tourney, players complete provinces to contribute to the total score, and are rewarded with a group reward (chests). Since the chest rewards are much better than the individual rewards for completing provinces, and they are awarded to the entire group, there is more enthusiasm for everyone playing. And players only have to do what they are able (or want) to do to be rewarded, whether that's a few provinces or many.

Spire, OTOH, is more like an Olympic ski team, or wrestling, or golf: the members of the team all play as individuals, rewarded for their progression on the leaderboards. The group is only rewarded incidentally, as a reflection of the individual performances. If a ski team, for example, has 6 members and they win medals for their country in the ratio of 2 gold/1 silver/1 bronze/2 no medal, the 2 with no medals don't complain that they didn't get the gold reward for their minimal participation. So it is with the Spire, where each member competes for personal gain (how high up the Spire can they reach, rewarded along the way at milestones), collecting points to drive the group's scoring higher as well. But the group scoring is rarely going to be equal to the best performers; there are usually more low scorers than high, so the group reward is going to go to those who showed they can go the extra mile.

In the Tourney, Perk Points are best used to advance the score enough to open the next chest, the one your group just couldn't quite reach on its own merits, in order to get those rewards. It may be a little, it may be a lot.

In the Spire, Perk Points are best used to reach either the Silver or Gold award point; the group rewards at the other intermediate nodes aren't really worth the bother. And since the full group rewards will only go to those who reach or exceed the highest node achieved by the group total, some members aren't going to get all of them. This is the incentive to strive for more participation.
 

Killy-

Active Member
@Flashfyre Funny, I think I have the total opposite view on that. The spire ist the team sport, where almost everyone needs to do their part to get to gold. In the tournament I get my personal 500 kps + another 1.5k kps in runes (well in theory at least, that change just came too late for me and my wonders are done already) and the group rewards are pretty much whatever. If we would get 16 chests instead of 19 there would be basically no difference at all for me.
 
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