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    Your Elvenar Team

Discussion Tournament Changes

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
One unique aspect of this change is that getting expansions and making chapter progress decreases your sustainable tournament ability. That's different this time.

But doesn't the increase in tournament and Spire squad sizes get outweighed by the increase in training speed and training size that comes from leveling up the military buildings and the AWs that do the same? If someone does not keep their buildings leveled up, so that their increase in troop production does not keep up with increased squad sizes, that is not your fault or my fault or Inno's fault. That is the choice of that player to fall behind.

When you look at things like that, it definitely feels that fighters have much more control over their numbers than caterers do, so fighting is not nearly as broken as catering is in the new format.
 

GlamDoll

Well-Known Member
But doesn't the increase in tournament and Spire squad sizes get outweighed by the increase in training speed and training size that comes from leveling up the military buildings and the AWs that do the same?

I certainly hope so...because I am about to blast those Wonders I do have to 30 asap. It will blow, if it's even worse for me, seeing that me trying to continue to cater in Spire is no longer sustainable for me. I am contemplating trying to learn how to fight manually.

Edit: But, from my understanding from Meggi & others, it will be for not!
 
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ET-inf3rno

Well-Known Member
1.) Exactly how are they supposed to undo technologies that they have unlocked?
2.) How does one unplace or better yet unpurchase an expansion?
3.) The one change they can do is to unmake a wonder, but for the non pushers who legitimately spent years putting KP into the I think that's a bit harsh.

I'm glad you're doing well though.

1.) Research affected the tournament squad size in the previous system too, so this is not a legit question.
2.) Why would you unpurchase an expansion? You can build factories or unit producing buildings on it, which compensate the increased tournament squad size.
3.) Yes, it is a little bit harsh, but it is the only way. I already removed some AWs and I'll continue when I have the room to replace them with something else.
 

GlamDoll

Well-Known Member
but the last I heard, these 3 factors were multiplied & this 'math formula' has never been used to this degree before, right? I have seen what gaining just a few Aw levels and techs & placed expansions has done to me. I have observed this for about 3 months now. My conclusion? 3 months ago, my Spire AND tourny was a walk in the park. Now? ....

I am pulling teeth & it IS a PITA.

YMMV

Edit: In short? It made it much easier for smaller/lower cities & much much much harder, for those that aren't. That is all. I didn't earn my BP...many low(ish) cities carried me, so I could finally have one. Not complaining, JS.
 
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Iyapo1

Well-Known Member
When you look at things like that, it definitely feels that fighters have much more control over their numbers than caterers do, so fighting is not nearly as broken as catering is in the new format.
Catering was broken under the old system. So now it is still broken, is it broken less, more, or just in a different place?

I had to fix the rest ;).

"But doesn't the increase in tournament and Spire negotiation costs get outweighed by the increase in production that comes from leveling up the manufacturing buildings and the AWs that do the same? If someone does not keep their buildings leveled up, so that their increase in goods production does not keep up with increased negotiation costs, that is not your fault or my fault or Inno's fault. That is the choice of that player to fall behind."


I am running a catering build and I am very happy with its performance(only in chapter 5). This is not PvP so, I dont really care if manual fighters can run eight rings around me.
 

GlamDoll

Well-Known Member
But doesn't the increase in tournament and Spire negotiation costs get outweighed by the increase in production that comes from leveling up the manufacturing buildings and the AWs that do the same?
If I were asked this 3 months ago, I would have said wow, you are on to something...Chapter 5 you say? Wait til you see Elementals. BTW, get every Event building you can, that gives Divine Seeds. I have paid it forward.
 

Iyapo1

Well-Known Member
@GlamDoll I am going to ride this horse till it dies!

Edit to add: you really might want to check your seed production bonus before you blast your AWs unless you are 100% ready to rumble. Just a thought.
 
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GlamDoll

Well-Known Member
Edit to add: you really might want to check your seed production bonus before you blast your AWs unless you are 100% ready to rumble. Just a thought.

Excellent point! I have increased my seeds, but I have also gained in province expansions/some tech/AW levels....good call! I need at least next week in Spire, to see how much more I gimped & thwarted myself. Thank you!
 

Pheryll

Well-Known Member
But doesn't the increase in tournament and Spire squad sizes get outweighed by the increase in training speed and training size that comes from leveling up the military buildings and the AWs that do the same?

The research multiplier is exponential, the training speed increases from leveling up barracks, etc. is at best quadratic, keeping up at best with the normal squad size, though the later chapters show it has trouble even there. When you get to the later chapters, research for the chapter alone significantly outdoes the training speed upgrades for military buildings.
 

ET-inf3rno

Well-Known Member
but the last I heard, these 3 factors were multiplied & this 'math formula' has never been used to this degree before, right? I have seen what gaining just a few Aw levels and techs & placed expansions has done to me. I have observed this for about 3 months now. My conclusion? 3 months ago, my Spire AND tourny was a walk in the park. Now? ....

Just check your AWs and remove some of them which you consider not that useful. You need more armories and upgrade the shrooms to be able to train 24/7. Replace your old event buildings with better ones if you can. Check your sets too, because they need only a single road connection while your moonstone sets have 40 roads around them. Craft damage and health boosters and do the spire each week if you can. And evolve your fire phoenix to stage 10. We just got a mail that the spire will give old phoenix artifacts for a few weeks, so you'll definitely need to do the spire. Placing some booster buildings and feeding your bird makes a big difference. Try to get a brow bear too if you have a chance. Feeding it and training with time boosters give a significant amount of troops if you run out.
 
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GlamDoll

Well-Known Member
Just check your AWs and remove some of them which you consider not that useful. You need more armories to be able to train 24/7. Replace your old event buildings with better ones if you can. Check your sets too, because they need only a single road connection while your moonstone sets have 40 roads around them.

Have you seen my city? I have paid inno a penny or two. Even if I were inclined to get rid of ANY of my Wonders, it's moot. I still can't level up the one's I would deem worthy, without it/them, having the same effect. The issue here is not the gamer. It's the NERF! Period.
 

ET-inf3rno

Well-Known Member
Have you seen my city? I have paid inno a penny or two. Even if I were inclined to get rid of ANY of my Wonders, it's moot. I still can't level up the one's I would deem worthy, without it/them, having the same effect. The issue here is not the gamer. It's the NERF! Period.
I could do 5k TP + the spire each week with your city after 2-3 months. Mine is not so different. https://www.elvenstats.com/player/us6/1558522
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
Have you seen my city? I have paid inno a penny or two. Even if I were inclined to get rid of ANY of my Wonders, it's moot. I still can't level up the one's I would deem worthy, without it/them, having the same effect. The issue here is not the gamer. It's the NERF! Period.

A nerf doesnt matter, as we all get nerfed the same way, previously the tournaments where to easy.

The only issue now is that the formula benefits not playing the game as intended, you are supposed to develop you town, Buy expansions and improve your wonders.

This is now thrown out of the window as there is absolutely no incentive to advance past the the frog prince unlock technology.
At a certain point (depending on a combination of expansions, wonderlevels and reseach as those are multiplied with eachother) there is only a negative gain left in both spire and tournament when improving any of those 3 factors, and the more you have of those 3 the worse it becomes.


I could do 5k TP + the spire each week with your city after 2-3 months. Mine is not so different. https://www.elvenstats.com/player/us6/1558522
if "just" 5K is your goal, nothing matters, only when you like to push your results to what is possible you're in trouble.
 

GlamDoll

Well-Known Member
A nerf doesnt matter, as we all get nerfed the same way, previously the tournaments where to easy.
Hello there. A nerf does matter, unless people like going backwards...we are all different. Different stroke for different folks & all that jazz.

This is now thrown out of the window as there is absolutely no incentive to advance past the the frog prince unlock technology.

100% agree!
 

ET-inf3rno

Well-Known Member
if "just" 5K is your goal, nothing matters, only when you like to push your results to what is possible you're in trouble.
I am far from being in trouble. I did around 14k on gems without any real effort. In the old system around 17k was my limit, now I think I could do 20k+ if I'd use up all my booster buildings and time boosters. In the old system I had tons of optional SSUs, now that problem is gone. Otherwise the tourney is around the same difficulty for me execpt that I don't have to spend a lot of time on it and catering is somewhat cheaper. What I really enjoy that many previously unknown players do 10k+ now, not just the same 10-20 players each week.
 
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GlamDoll

Well-Known Member
anyways, I remember when I first started playing this game...so many options!

now? so many NOT options, carry on.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
I am far from being in trouble. I did around 14k on gems without any real effort. In the old system around 17k was my limit, now I think I could do 20k+ if I'd use up all my booster buildings and time boosters. In the old system I had tons of optional SSUs, now that problem is gone. Otherwise the tourney is around the same difficulty for me execpt that I don't have to spend a lot of time on it and catering is somewhat cheaper. What I really enjoy that many previously unknown players do 10k+ now, not just the same 10-20 players each week.
If you normally do a lot less, (7500, your average in the last cycle) getting and calling a 1 out of 9 tournaments 14K push "without any real effort" a strange way to describe the issue.

I to am still having great results and good scores. but thats not because of the forumla, it has been mathematically proven many times over it's a problem.
I survive on owning a level 35 needles(accedentely destroyed it almost back to 35), victory springs, flying academy and sapiens.
A tournaments optimised town and a strategy that has developed over the years and the kicker 3 BROWN BEARS!

Each tournament I use ~3100-3500 squads. this is for almost all other players unsustainable.
I am now struggling to compete with players way less developed and if I would develop more it would be even worse.

Just because "some" outlyers can still compete because they own to many brown bears does not make the formula "good"

As long as the formula creates a situation where progression = regression then it's just wrong.

it would be fine if progress == stable, but progress == regress is just plain wrong.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
The research multiplier is exponential, the training speed increases from leveling up barracks, etc. is at best quadratic, keeping up at best with the normal squad size, though the later chapters show it has trouble even there. When you get to the later chapters, research for the chapter alone significantly outdoes the training speed upgrades for military buildings.

It may be a problem for the players at the extremes, but for players who have not bought most or all expansions or do not have 500 AW levels? I doubt it. I am in the middle of chapter 17 and I can still easily keep up with the small amounts my starting squad sizes increase. And once I get to the research for the barracks and armory, I will catch back up again.
 
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