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    Your Elvenar Team

Discussion Tournament Changes

GlamDoll

Well-Known Member
Maybe you think it doesn’t impact you, but if you keep playing you will one day be gravely impacted, and for all our sakes, we’ve decided to protest.
That is the irony for many....They just cant/won't/don't see it. They will though. I don't have to be in your place to see it & if I can, well?

Sadly, by then, I suspect it will be far too late. I do hope I am wrong.

May all of you succeed!

IDK if we have trolls/shills, or whatnot, but I am not buying it...

I am just as invested & passionate as the next.
 

NightshadeCS

Well-Known Member
I will say that I think we tend to see more complaints here and that they are more greatly amplified. GlamDoll, I am a player in Ch 17 for whom the tournament has gotten better, not worse. In fact, my fellowship as a whole has done better since the changes. We are ranked in the top 25 on Arendyll, which only means that most of our players have high scores and have been around a long time. But we were only doing 10 chests every 4 weeks prior to the change, and we have "accidentally" gotten 10 chests the last 6 out of 7 weeks.

I am no math wizard, but my general impression is that the wonder levels being included in the formula most greatly impact those who have upgraded them quite high. I have most of the available ones out, but not many of them are higher than 10 levels. I start to feel a pinch at about province 15 if I don't have boost buildings, 20-25 if I do. Three rounds is enough to get me the points I need in either case.

I do fall on the side of thinking that the formula could use another look. However, I do not think the sky is falling, either. Maybe I am just an optimist at heart, but it is my opinion that the doom and gloom of impending tournament failure is greatly overblown.
 

Mykan

Well-Known Member
I will say that I think we tend to see more complaints here and that they are more greatly amplified. GlamDoll, I am a player in Ch 17 for whom the tournament has gotten better, not worse. In fact, my fellowship as a whole has done better since the changes. We are ranked in the top 25 on Arendyll, which only means that most of our players have high scores and have been around a long time. But we were only doing 10 chests every 4 weeks prior to the change, and we have "accidentally" gotten 10 chests the last 6 out of 7 weeks.

I am no math wizard, but my general impression is that the wonder levels being included in the formula most greatly impact those who have upgraded them quite high. I have most of the available ones out, but not many of them are higher than 10 levels. I start to feel a pinch at about province 15 if I don't have boost buildings, 20-25 if I do. Three rounds is enough to get me the points I need in either case.

I do fall on the side of thinking that the formula could use another look. However, I do not think the sky is falling, either. Maybe I am just an optimist at heart, but it is my opinion that the doom and gloom of impending tournament failure is greatly overblown.

From what you said about your FS this change was designed for you and thats awesome. They have intentionally made 10 chests more accessible for everyone.

I don't think those who are passionate in opposition are saying the sky is falling though. Some are but many are just asking for a tweak on the scaling of SS to be fair for all players. There is a lot to like about the update but there are people who got badly hurt by it. The CM even mentioned in his post that when they looked at an individual level they realised there is differences and some people got badly hurt. I know for my fellowship it is the fact that some players were helped and other penalised that has upset them, they do not see it as fair for such inconsistency, especially when the inconsistency is all around progression. I have no idea at what point wonder levels start to hurt but it takes a lot of work and time (years for some) to get 300+, 400+ etc wonder levels.

I do wonder if players not at those levels of wonders will ever get there now though. It is very hard to earn 1000+kp a week now, so levelling wonders is much slower than it was before.
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
Hi fellow Elvenar players!

You all might have noticed our fellowship’s name has changed from Phoenix Power to Phoenix Power Protesting. You might have also noticed a number of other fellowships also boasting the “Protesting” at the end of their fellowship’s name. I’m sure you’re wondering what that’s all about.

Well, we’ve tried communicating through normal channels with Inno about the issues with their new tourney format. Basically, we love the reduction in clicks, but we’re really miffed by the increase in needed goods. We don’t at all mind a 4 for 1 increase in goods/troops. It’s fair to require that what took 4 clicks now requires the same amount of goods/troops for 1 click. But, Inno increased the goods and troops by way more than the 4 for 1 ratio they promised, AND they made it much more difficult for more advanced players to compete by reducing the benefits of our Ancient Wonders, and even dinging us for having more advanced Ancient Wonders.

Maybe you think it doesn’t impact you, but if you keep playing you will one day be gravely impacted, and for all our sakes, we’ve decided to protest.

We’re not buying anymore diamonds, and we’re not tourneying past the 5000 mark. And, we’re asking any players, and whole fellowships if they agree to join us! All we want is for our more knowledgeable players to be able to sit at the table with Inno developers and show them our crunched numbers and the impacts and to have a discussion.

This is a complex subject so we’re in the middle of making a video that we’ll post and share out to everyone that explains the whole thing within the next week. In the meantime, if your fellowship wants to join in the protest, comment and tell us you’re in, and adjust your fellowship name to include the words Protesting! And please, pass this post around to all your social media to help us get the word out!
So, how do you participate as in individual if your FS is split?
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
From what you said about your FS this change was designed for you and thats awesome. They have intentionally made 10 chests more accessible for everyone.

I don't think those who are passionate in opposition are saying the sky is falling though. Some are but many are just asking for a tweak on the scaling of SS to be fair for all players. There is a lot to like about the update but there are people who got badly hurt by it. The CM even mentioned in his post that when they looked at an individual level they realised there is differences and some people got badly hurt. I know for my fellowship it is the fact that some players were helped and other penalised that has upset them, they do not see it as fair for such inconsistency, especially when the inconsistency is all around progression. I have no idea at what point wonder levels start to hurt but it takes a lot of work and time (years for some) to get 300+, 400+ etc wonder levels.

I do wonder if players not at those levels of wonders will ever get there now though. It is very hard to earn 1000+kp a week now, so levelling wonders is much slower than it was before.
Inno absolutely slammed players making ingame purchases for expansions. I have 36% increased troops size from my premium expansions, but only 30% more land. There is nothing that land will do to increase my troop production. It is an extreme penalty for in-game purchases.

Right about now I like Inno as much as I'd like a company selling investment bonds, and then embezzling the funds, and right now I think Inno has about the same ethics as those fraudsters. What Inno did to in-game purchases for land is equivalent to a fraud.
 

GlamDoll

Well-Known Member
I don't know anything about that sky falling...
I will say that I think we tend to see more complaints here and that they are more greatly amplified. GlamDoll, I am a player in Ch 17 for whom the tournament has gotten better, not worse.
I am thrilled for you, truly. I hear some have quit over this & that other's have lost FS members. I find these points unavoidable:

1: some players are doing very well, while others got 'hosed'
2: Progressing & advancing with placed expansions, tech & AW levels multiply AND make it penalty (at minimum) to do so.

I have already stated my FS is doing well, and that we have got a blueprint 4 weeks in a row. I am trying to see both sides of this, because I am experiencing it.

On one hand, I am glad to finally get something I often wondered if I ever would...
On the other hand, the way it is implemented, in order for it to be so, came at a costs that leaves a sour tastes in my mouth.

I find it sad that some are penalized more than others & that some have quit. Glad that was not the case for you & your FS.

Have a blessed day.
 

Meggi

Active Member
So, how do you participate as in individual if your FS is split?
Don't buy any diamonds, Protest in your city header...No tourney play above 5000 (thats a max, no minimum at all, it can be zero if you wish).
Every single player has right to decide for them selves...This is not against or for any kind of FS.We are taking a stand because we don't believe that progressing should be regressing....
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
Don't buy any diamonds, Protest in your city header...No tourney play above 5000 (thats a max, no minimum at all, it can be zero if you wish).
Every single player has right to decide for them selves...This is not against or for any kind of FS.We are taking a stand because we don't believe that progressing should be regressing....
My sense is doing chapter 17 has reduced my score ability by 1000-1500 points in the tournaments. It is insanely regressive.
 

i8sh

Active Member
Don't buy any diamonds, Protest in your city header...No tourney play above 5000 (thats a max, no minimum at all, it can be zero if you wish).
I don't chime in too often here and have posted both pros and cons to the change to the tournament system in the other thread. Though I agree with the principal of a protest because the current system penalizes players for advancing, purchasing land expansions, and increasing their AW levels, I think that your idea of no tourney play above will 5K will have no impact and merely serve to allow others to climb the leader-board. It will also decrease the prosperity of your city if you used the tournament to collect valuable resources. Sanctions work when you block something that the other wants, so the no purchase of diamonds (i.e decreased revenue) will over time be felt if most partake. I support you on this aspect until a tweaking of the formula to calculate tournament difficulty is implemented.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
We’re not buying anymore diamonds, and we’re not tourneying past the 5000 mark. And, we’re asking any players, and whole fellowships if they agree to join us! All we want is for our more knowledgeable players to be able to sit at the table with Inno developers and show them our crunched numbers and the impacts and to have a discussion.

Since 5000 points seems to be the new limit that Inno wants players to reasonably reach, you will make them happy with that part and prove them right. As for not buying diamonds, the vast majority of players who spend money on this game probably never even look at the forums.
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
I don't chime in too often here and have posted both pros and cons to the change to the tournament system in the other thread. Though I agree with the principal of a protest because the current system penalizes players for advancing, purchasing land expansions, and increasing their AW levels, I think that your idea of no tourney play above will 5K will have no impact and merely serve to allow others to climb the leader-board. It will also decrease the prosperity of your city if you used the tournament to collect valuable resources. Sanctions work when you block something that the other wants, so the no purchase of diamonds (i.e decreased revenue) will over time be felt if most partake. I support you on this aspect until a tweaking of the formula to calculate tournament difficulty is implemented.
I am kind of thinking the same about limiting yourself. Only hurts your game, does not punish Inno. So, no diamonds it is, but I also decided to stop playing on beta.
 

mikeledo

Well-Known Member
This game goes in cycles. Why fret? The worst thing that could happen is that the diamond protest is successful. You would quickly see the free diamonds dry up to make folks buy them. Impossible to get 9 artifacts without diamonds. And if worse comes to worse, INNO can delete accounts and this thread. I just took a 100% offer and will buy expansions when they go on sale. I plan to continue to complete 25 provinces in the tournament as that seems to be the upper sustainable limit. It gives me plenty without having to be greedy. In two of my 3 FS there has been zero talk about any protest. So I am with you on not buying diamonds until my next 100% offer.
 

GlamDoll

Well-Known Member
I too have bought some diamonds, because of the 100% offer. The last Event was great & It helped get me back into the game.

@InnoGames Thank you for a lovely game. However, it would be fantastic if you would reconsider this 'formula' for the Tournament. It would be great to know that once I buy more land (once the premium expansions go on sale), that I can still have some fun with the content in this game, in regards to Spire & tournament...

Without it making me feel like I was sucker-punched. Thank you so much. Even if you don't. Why? Because I love the game first & foremost, for building my city...and will continue to build it, because, that is why I started playing. However, I would like to point out one detail. There is not a lot of joy there, when new content is added, and then you advance to the point, where it is not worth doing said content.

If this is the goal, then it is working as intended. If it is not, then, it's 'broken'. Thanks again, for your consideration. This is not balanced, please 'fix'.
 

TalimSwift

Active Member
I was away for a while (right after the 3 Phoenixes event) up until just when the Owl one started. So i found some changes in the game. I was wondering what was up in the tournament, them asking for so many troops on rounds 15-20 already. I was never able to push past 24 provinces, 2 rounds from 12 to 24. And nothing has changed for me.
Now, of course it seems i missed out on major event giveaways that would help me push further or higher stars per province, namely the bears.
But the main thing is, I may not be able to farm KP as much, but this gets offset with my guild getting 14-15 chests. For me thats way better because we can farm a much better prize than KP, the RR's. Only plac.e to get them, and now we can get more of them. And this ties in with something-else i have found...

The coming of the spire changed a lot for my city, which is in constant need of supplies. I had to raise my workshops to much higher levels, as relying on quest-flipping just doesnt work anymore. This has led me to rethink things.
Ok so expansions, wonders and research affect us now, right? This means that real estate has become even more valuable than before. No wasting of space! Optimization is key. So the object now is to get rid of wonders to replace them by event buildings, and to get rid of houses and workshops to replace them by magic ones.

So farm spire, get diamonds, buy magic buildings, save space with which to maybe place an extra workshop or factory, or whatever resources you're scrambling most with. With rest of diamonds, complete events, maybe save a bunch of diamonds to get a 2nd prize if its worth it...
Expansions for diamonds only to be bought if your city can be managed easily with careless catering (if thats your thing) or if troops training can be done without a sweat. Then expand. Of course i'm already at the 6500 diamonds expansion, so i have a few already, but more right now isnt worth it, not unless all my houses/workshops are magic ones. 6500/1400 = almost 5 magic buildings for the price of a 5x5 grid. 5 magic buildings means i can delete 8 normal ones. 3 saved buildings x (about) 18 squares = 54 >= 25. So for now, saving space with magic buildings is more efficient than buying expansions.
Even if you cant evo them cuz your guild doesnt reach the famous blueprint chest doesnt matter. Your magic buildings are 2 chapters ahead of normal ones.. You can just replace them with more diamonds if need be. (teleport old ones, in case you do get a BP at one point)

Maybe thats their wish, to make the event buildings more powerful than the wonders? If thats so, mission accomplished.
Why have a tome level 11 when you can have an evoed level 10 event building giving 2KP, resources, population, culture, and supplies on top and which never affects the costs of running spire/tourney?

I think its a shame though... those level 10's are 9 "easy clicks" to evo (ya i know, you still have to complete event, but still), compared to months of work to get a wonder to 11, and years to 30

So, conclusion is, the new system forces us to adorn our towns with diamonds-bought buildings. With events you can get 1 for free, but with diamonds you can get another.
So have a system in which you farm diamonds slowly but surely, then spend wisely.
 

MinMax Gamer

Well-Known Member
With events you can get 1 for free, but with diamonds you can get another.
While it is easy to get a second grand prize base building (in many cases you can get it even without diamonds), it is pretty useless without multiple additional artifacts. And getting enough of those with diamonds will be very, very expensive. None of the evolution buildings in the recent history were worth it, IMO.
 

TalimSwift

Active Member
Ha thats very possible, as i said, i missed on a good stretch... I do kinda like the Owl for what it gives. nothing spectacular, but decent enough. But ya, would i dish 1000's of diamonds to acquire the necessary artifacts for a 2nd? no
 

Darielle

Well-Known Member
This game goes in cycles. Why fret? The worst thing that could happen is that the diamond protest is successful. You would quickly see the free diamonds dry up to make folks buy them. Impossible to get 9 artifacts without diamonds. And if worse comes to worse, INNO can delete accounts and this thread. I just took a 100% offer and will buy expansions when they go on sale. I plan to continue to complete 25 provinces in the tournament as that seems to be the upper sustainable limit. It gives me plenty without having to be greedy. In two of my 3 FS there has been zero talk about any protest. So I am with you on not buying diamonds until my next 100% offer.
I wish I could get a 100 percent offer. I've been here since October 13, 2019, and I have never seen a single 30 percent, 40 percent or 50 percent diamonds offer, much less 100 percent. Something is screwy with Inno's methodology.
 

GlamDoll

Well-Known Member
I wish I could get a 100 percent offer. I've been here since October 13, 2019, and I have never seen a single 30 percent, 40 percent or 50 percent diamonds offer, much less 100 percent. Something is screwy with Inno's methodology.

Hiyas Darielle. IDK how Inno does it for anyone else...I only know how it is/has been for me. I have to stop spending on diamonds & event currency for 1-2 months, give or take. Never kept a log, because that is not my style. I just know, that on average, it seems to be that for me. As for people that never gets any offers???

@InnoGames Hi again. They say the squeaky-wheel gets the grease. It sounds like one more thing that is NOT balanced, in case the point many have made about it not being 'fair', has NOT hit home & sunk in. Thanks for your time & attention in this matter.
 

Darielle

Well-Known Member
Hiyas Darielle. IDK how Inno does it for anyone else...I only know how it is/has been for me. I have to stop spending on diamonds & event currency for 1-2 months, give or take. Never kept a log, because that is not my style. I just know, that on average, it seems to be that for me. As for people that never gets any offers???

@InnoGames Hi again. They say the squeaky-wheel gets the grease. It sounds like one more thing that is NOT balanced, in case the point many have made about it not being 'fair', has NOT hit home & sunk in. Thanks for your time & attention in this matter.
I haven't bought any diamonds since my son got me a gift of $20 worth in December of 2019, and put them directly on my account. I heard someone say that if you bought diamonds once without an offer, they'll never give you one. I'd say that's about as unfair as it gets.
 
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