DeletedUser2753
Guest
I said something positive today someplace. LOL
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Your Elvenar Team
DeletedUser3827
Guest
The source of the disappointment is the game itself. What happens is they come here and realize, holy cow - there's people who feel just like me, and it validates their feelings. While I think you will always have a group of people who are negative in any forum, there is clearly a lot of unhappiness with the way things have gone here lately. The massive price hike for premium provinces is particularly insulting.
I played Anarchy Online for 3 years, made by Funcom. The game is still around after a decade. Funcom is a company that is super connected to their players. They listen and have dialog. Game problems are not ignored. The result of that is a game that has defied expectations and lived on far longer than all its counterparts. Because it's clear that Funcom cares about the game's community not just about the money.
Inno does an extremely poor job of connecting with it's players. To me it seems like they pretty much just ignore what's happening. I know there is a beta group, but I imagine most people do not participate in that. You can't just speak AT your players, you need to have a good dialog with them - those who are happy and those who are not.
If all you care about is the bottom line, then the future of the game is going to be short. That's the impression I get. Now that may seem unfair to those who are inside, and probably trying to do a good job and do right by the players. But public perception is what it is, and you have to work very hard to change that. And the longer they let it slide, the worse it gets. That's where we are right now.
Sir Squirrel
Artist EXTRAORDINAIRE and Buddy Fan Club member
Sorry, I agree to disagree, the members I sent here were very new to the game and were not frustrated with the game at all. They were happy with the game as they had just started playing and had gotten into a good fellowship and everything was looking up, until they read all the complains and negativity here. I'm not saying that I haven't had other members that quit from frustration, but they were all at the higher levels and where over the 1 hour scouting times by a long way and they didn't even come here to the forums.
I do however agree that the expansion price now was thought up in fantasy land where players of a free game want to spend thousands of dollars!! They need to come back to reality on that one!
I do however agree that the expansion price now was thought up in fantasy land where players of a free game want to spend thousands of dollars!! They need to come back to reality on that one!
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DeletedUser3827
Guest
New players leave games like this in droves. I'm willing to bet the dropoff rate is above 90%, similar to mobile apps.
If you are trying to put the blame on the forums for players quitting, I'm sorry, you are just missing the bigger picture.
If you are trying to put the blame on the forums for players quitting, I'm sorry, you are just missing the bigger picture.
Sir Squirrel
Artist EXTRAORDINAIRE and Buddy Fan Club member
I have been a member of the forums here for a while now and have been playing this game for about 9 months now, I understand what you are saying, I'm not missing anything, I have read almost every tread on here. It is depressing, most players here that are complaining, just want the game to go back to the way it was, but Inno has already told us that the changes were needed to have the game continue, as it couldn't continue the way it was. Am I upset about it, yes very!! My fellowship has lost a lot of good members because of all the changes.
I have lost a few new members as you say because they just didn't like the game, but the 90% your talking about don't usually even bother to join a fellowship. I stay mostly because of my fellowship and the bond that is there, but the game is still very playable for free and most of my fellowship are dealing with the changes without to much fuss. But they don't spend much time here as I keep them informed of all they need to know and don't tell them to come here anymore.
I have lost a few new members as you say because they just didn't like the game, but the 90% your talking about don't usually even bother to join a fellowship. I stay mostly because of my fellowship and the bond that is there, but the game is still very playable for free and most of my fellowship are dealing with the changes without to much fuss. But they don't spend much time here as I keep them informed of all they need to know and don't tell them to come here anymore.
Thistleknot
Well-Known Member
Ennikan,
I understand you're frustration with having to go back and do research. It slows down your current plan and interrupts your game play. It is especially true when you feel that the research is useless. Let me bring something to your attention. I did some analysis of the technologies to research and approximately 30% of the technologies (possibly more now) deal with combat in some way. Either troops are being advanced, squad sizes are growing, or new buildings are being presented. That pretty much means that combat is here for the long haul and you will need to do any research dealing with combat. Now it is your choice about participating in combat. I hope that brings some perspective to the situation.
I understand you're frustration with having to go back and do research. It slows down your current plan and interrupts your game play. It is especially true when you feel that the research is useless. Let me bring something to your attention. I did some analysis of the technologies to research and approximately 30% of the technologies (possibly more now) deal with combat in some way. Either troops are being advanced, squad sizes are growing, or new buildings are being presented. That pretty much means that combat is here for the long haul and you will need to do any research dealing with combat. Now it is your choice about participating in combat. I hope that brings some perspective to the situation.
DeletedUser3827
Guest
I totally get that, and I have decided not to engage in combat anymore as it's useless and frustrating. And so yeah, 30% of the game to me is a problem. One that will likely ultimately having me quitting unless things change.
DeletedUser43
Guest
On beta they tried to introduce a huge change to the wholesaler. Thanks to the overwhelming negative response the devs changed what they were about to do here. If people had just cheerily welcomed the change and said nothing but positive things, the devs would have dumped that change here and it would have been a disaster. (Most newbies couldn't play the game the way it was and if they had implemented the game they would have crushed it).
We had to explain very basic game economics to the devs so it doesn't appear they understand the functioning of the game very well. They can code it, but they don't seem to know how it actually plays. They make huge changes and are surprised at the reactions of players.
Putting lipstick on a pig doesn't change its porcine nature. (No offense meant to the amazing pig).
We can cheer and accept the new changes all we want. That doesn't change the fact that the battles are too difficult and many players are quitting the game because of it. Players want to play. If they can't they won't. It doesn't matter what anyone here says. Either they are winning battles or they aren't. You can try to tell me that people will be very enthusiastic about losing all their troops and getting crushed, but I don't think that is true. You can take make it so only expert fighters will win, but again, I don't think that many people will be enthusiastic about that. We argue because we want more people to play the game.
We argue for more space because this is a city builder and it takes space to build a city. Maybe the devs are right and people will be very happy not building things. Either they will or they won't. Either they will stay or they won't. But as a player, I can tell you that having space to build the things they say I need for this game to function is more enjoyable than not having space to build those things. That is just my feedback.
We had to explain very basic game economics to the devs so it doesn't appear they understand the functioning of the game very well. They can code it, but they don't seem to know how it actually plays. They make huge changes and are surprised at the reactions of players.
Putting lipstick on a pig doesn't change its porcine nature. (No offense meant to the amazing pig).
We can cheer and accept the new changes all we want. That doesn't change the fact that the battles are too difficult and many players are quitting the game because of it. Players want to play. If they can't they won't. It doesn't matter what anyone here says. Either they are winning battles or they aren't. You can try to tell me that people will be very enthusiastic about losing all their troops and getting crushed, but I don't think that is true. You can take make it so only expert fighters will win, but again, I don't think that many people will be enthusiastic about that. We argue because we want more people to play the game.
We argue for more space because this is a city builder and it takes space to build a city. Maybe the devs are right and people will be very happy not building things. Either they will or they won't. Either they will stay or they won't. But as a player, I can tell you that having space to build the things they say I need for this game to function is more enjoyable than not having space to build those things. That is just my feedback.
DeletedUser3827
Guest
Very well said. If the game isn't fun, I can go somewhere else. It's very easy to just move on to the next thing, especially when I have no skin in the game. I've spent $10 total - it's a lunch. I won't spend anymore, especially once I saw the way things were going.
You either keep your players happy or they leave, there's just way too much competition out there.
It's good that Inno has a beta process, but it doesn't sound like they have a real good user centered design process in place, and that could easily be their downfall.
Meanwhile, the game is down.
You either keep your players happy or they leave, there's just way too much competition out there.
It's good that Inno has a beta process, but it doesn't sound like they have a real good user centered design process in place, and that could easily be their downfall.
Meanwhile, the game is down.
DeletedUser61
Guest
But you do? That's absurd.
DeletedUser2963
Guest
I get that the line you quoted struck you as off, but was the information presented before and after it sound?
I am not on beta, so I did not really get to experience the wholeseller change. I do understand that I owe the beta players a big thank you for that, so thank you.
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DeletedUser43
Guest
I agree that it is absurd that they don't understand the game that well. It isn't just me Katwijk. It is lots of us who play this game a lot. We actually had to explain to Muf and the devs why you can't do cross tier trades. Go look at the thread. No dev who understood why cross tier trades are bad would have made that change to the wholesaler. So yes, absolutely, we understand the economics of the game better than they do. I obviously don't know anything about coding the game which they do. But playing it, and how changes affect players, it is repeatedly shown that the people who spend all day playing the game understand the game better. I know this because they make a change, we tell them it will have thus and thus consequences, they do it, and then have to undo what they just did because they finally see the consequences we all told them would happen long ago.
For anyone who doesn't understand what we are talking about....for a short while on beta they tried out a new wholesaler where you couldn't buy things like you can now. You only had one page of goods to buy and only some of them could be purchased for coins. Even newbies would only have had tier 3 goods (gems, dust, elixir) to buy for coins and no tier one goods for coins (planks, steel, marble). Obviously, the newbies can't use the tier 3 goods so the response from them was that all they had to do was buy the elixir (or whatever tier 3 good) and then trade for the goods they need....as if cross tier goods trading is no big deal.
It took several of us explaining it ad nauseum before they finally understood that it takes a lot more SPACE, which is a finite commodity, to make the tier one goods that would be an equal trade for the tier 3 goods, so it isn't possible for us to make those trades regularly and still be solvent. Oh sure, you can do it to help someone every once in a while, but not as a regular part of the game that people depend on.
https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/discussion-release-notes-version-1-17.6402/page-6
DeletedUser2963
Guest
I started playing in July, and in all that time I have never had anyone explain to me why, exactly, cross tier trades are frowned on. Thank you for this. Could you please post a link to the forum thread you mentioned in the above post, so I can go read it?
DeletedUser4778
Guest
Your eyes must be crossed from all the fighting, Iyapo, hehe. Bobbykitty put it. Here it is again:
https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/discussion-release-notes-version-1-17.6402/page-6
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
Here is a visual answer for you Iyapo:
The first image is of a fully functional Tier 3 build producing 62,000 Tier 1 goods if you trade at the recommended 1:16 ratio
The next image is of how many Tier 1 buildings you would need to produce slightly less than 62,000 Tier 1 goods.
You'll note there are a few things missing from the second image, now imagine how many workshops, residences and culture buildings you'd need to make that work...
DeletedUser43
Guest
DeletedUser2963
Guest
*squints through black eyes*
rofl, totally missed that link.
rofl, totally missed that link.
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DeletedUser3686
Guest
I actually love the training grounds. I've been in chapter five for a while and going back to chapter three or whatever it was wasn't a big deal. It only took a day or so to complete the task to unlock the task.
At first I didn't like the TG because the dogs took absolutely forever to train, however that was just with level 1. At level four, it takes me about 2 hours to train 130, so I just train the dogs when it's night time or when I know I won't have much time to be online that day. For anyone who does fighting in the game, the dogs are excellent against light ranged and mages. I can easily clear Scroll provinces with dogs even if there's one or two heavy ranged units (three makes it more challenging and you'll probably need other units then).
Also anyone who is battling on the level that they should be, not more than a few provinces needed to unlock the next chapter, the battling is not any more or less difficult than it was before. It takes roughly the same amount of time to train a squad (just faster per unit, but with more units per squad). Really don't get where all of this "the battling is impossible" is coming from. Once I got caught up in the tree, battling has been fine.
At first I didn't like the TG because the dogs took absolutely forever to train, however that was just with level 1. At level four, it takes me about 2 hours to train 130, so I just train the dogs when it's night time or when I know I won't have much time to be online that day. For anyone who does fighting in the game, the dogs are excellent against light ranged and mages. I can easily clear Scroll provinces with dogs even if there's one or two heavy ranged units (three makes it more challenging and you'll probably need other units then).
Also anyone who is battling on the level that they should be, not more than a few provinces needed to unlock the next chapter, the battling is not any more or less difficult than it was before. It takes roughly the same amount of time to train a squad (just faster per unit, but with more units per squad). Really don't get where all of this "the battling is impossible" is coming from. Once I got caught up in the tree, battling has been fine.
DeletedUser2191
Guest
I can train 114 dogs in under 28 minutes with level 8 training grounds. The variable being the amount of and level of your armories. Even after updating barracks in both of my cities, it has no effect on the production time of the training grounds.
DeletedUser2963
Guest
Well, that's a bit of very happy information. Thanks for sharing that Ludwig.
Gotta go upgrade my training hall
