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    Your Elvenar Team

Winning! (or not) Battle Insights and Observations share yours

DeletedUser3696

Guest
Mykan said:
I was noticing the blossom mage may have her uses against heavy melee. She only has 2 move the same as heavy melee but her long range in theory should allow her to avoid being hit, unlike the sorceress with her short range.

As each unit is strong against 2 types and they are making 3 units of each type for us I would assume we will get one "jack of all trades" and the other 2 will be specialised against one of the unit types it is strong against.
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That may be true for Elves, but as a Human player I see no use to any of the new units when compared to my upgraded core units.

The upgrade for the Mortar II still makes it weak as hell, archers are still weak, the priests new initiative make them bait for everyone so the go to unit is still paladins with some uses for dogs and axes. All other units have no use yet and when I get the ranger I don't see using/training it as an option either.
 

DeletedUser4778

Guest
TSmack said:
That may be true for Elves, but as a Human player I see no use to any of the new units when compared to my upgraded core units.

The upgrade for the Mortar II still makes it weak as hell, archers are still weak, the priests new initiative make them bait for everyone so the go to unit is still paladins with some uses for dogs and axes. All other units have no use yet and when I get the ranger I don't see using/training it as an option either.
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I have no go to unit anymore ever since the nerfing of the treant and sorceress. Barely survived the 5th leg of the silk tourney. My treants have dog bites all over them but that won't be a problem soon since I'm almost out of Groots. I definitely agree with you about the mages' initiative making them bait. In D&D, the mages often chose to delay their initiative to move after everyone else because of their puny hp. I'm also curious: Why isn't the ranger an option? Is it because of its pathetic hp and damage compared to your advanced units?
 

DeletedUser2963

Guest
I am actually looking forward to the Ranger. Ranged strike back, very nice. In battle that makes them perfect mage killers.
...new thread
 
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DeletedUser4778

Guest
Sorry, but I cannot swallow the concept of a range or distance strikeback. How on earth do you retaliate against someone who hit you from afar? I just don't understand the logic behind this.
 

DeletedUser4778

Guest
Inno illogic?

And doesn't everyone need line of sight to be able to attack?

Maybe it's the psycho shrooms. Oh wait, maybe it's the special wood or mana from the wood elves.
 

DeletedUser2963

Guest
You know what I have issues with... Why does a unit with strike back, only strike back once. Getting ganged up on and only able to hit the first guy back is just not fair!
 

DeletedUser4778

Guest
Because that would essentially mean you have multiple attacks albeit at lesser power than your normal attack and, when multiple units gang up on you, you have less room to move. In D&D, if I remember correctly, only the barbarian could get multiple strikebacks although I may be confusing this with the Cleave feat. However, the dogs do get one additional strikeback per upgrade and an extra square of movement plus higher initiative.
 

DeletedUser4778

Guest
Iyapo said:
WHAT????

I have not faced that nasty in battle yet. I am so glad I finally got those dogs!
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All in Elven Architect and my Battle Sheet. Also, in case you're interested and don't already know, here are a few tips. In the silk tourney, I often faced the Furious Hellhound and the Cerberus II along with Steinlings and Enchantresses. Attack the hellhounds more than the cerberi because of their special ability which reduces your attack by 30% for 1 round and because they have fewer hp. However, if the steinlings and enchantresses are in range, go for them first, especially the enchantress due to her special ability. I always hit enemy range units first as I explained elsewhere because melee has to come to you but mages and range can avoid you. Besides, you have a strikeback against melee unless they have a reach weapon like knights and paladins. Positioning is even more important with treants where you have to maximize each square due to their limited movement range so you can reach mages and enemy range units more quickly. Take note that the enemy (especially dogs) tend to go for the most isolated unit that they can reach to limit the # attackers hitting them. The dogs are actually tough. It took 5 full treant squads to wipe them out in the 4th and 5th legs of the tourney. Golems were more effective at taking them down but also die much much faster than treants when hit by the dogs. They're also no match for the steinlings due to sheer enemy numbers. I used them when the terrain was favorable or because I needed to kill dogs quickly so they would stop blocking the treants' way to the steinlings and enchantresses.

Btw, why is the enemy AI so good but autofight for us is so bad? I've never completely autofought a battle. I tried semi-autofight in the last 1-2 rounds of tourney encounters when positioning didn't matter anymore...or so I thought. The autofight player AI was awful! Simply awful! I say they should balance the AIs too!
 
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DeletedUser61

Guest
Draconomicon said:
How on earth do you retaliate against someone who hit you from afar? I just don't understand the logic behind this.
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See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-battery_radar
Modern counter-battery radar can locate hostile batteries up to about 50 km away depending on the radar's capabilities and the terrain and weather. A counter-battery radar is attached to an artillery battery or their support group.
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As soon as the radar can establish the ballistic path back to the point of origin, your OWN artillery strikes back, oftimes before the incoming shells even land.

Fixed artillery entrenchments are easy to kill. Now a days it's all about shoot and move, immediately.
 

DeletedUser4778

Guest
Katwijk said:
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-battery_radar

As soon as the radar can establish the ballistic path back to the point of origin, your OWN artillery strikes back, oftimes before the incoming shells even land.

Fixed artillery entrenchments are easy to kill. Now a days it's all about shoot and move, immediately.
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Nice. But Elvenar troops are not machines nor do they have built-in radar or a radar device somewhere that can send them signals.
 

DeletedUser594

Guest
Strikeback has been upped for some units to 2 or 3. I just sent sinister cerbs to check out their strike back of 3 and its just as it sounds- three attackers hit me in a row- all took return hits, wasn't enough room for a fourth hit to see if it stopped at 3.
Priest III or Golems are my go to for steinlings. I line up either dogs/archers against mages and sometimes sword/axe depending on enemy mix. I need to go fight some more with my other less advanced armies so I can see what those matchups are like but with the sinister cerb, archer/cross III, GG, Priest III, BP...I feel ok about things but haven't tried the upper end tournies yet
btw- looking at elven architect shows a fair number of Orc troops coming at us that will have multiple strikebacks
 
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DeletedUser3297

Guest
Draconomicon said:
Btw, why is the enemy AI so good but autofight for us is so bad? I've never completely autofought a battle. I tried semi-autofight in the last 1-2 rounds of tourney encounters when positioning didn't matter anymore...or so I thought. The autofight player AI was awful! Simply awful! I say they should balance the AIs too!
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In one of the more difficult fights I faced I had 2 Paladins at nearly full strength left towards the end. All that was left to take out was one swamp monster, so I thought let me autofight the rest. You would figure that the paladins would stay out of range, but no. All 3 stood toe to toe for the next 6 rounds until both my paladins were dead. Oh I was soo mad, I could not believe that the AI would be that stupid to not even move out of the way. So now I am very selective about when I use autofight.
 

DeletedUser594

Guest
I had a fight with my 5 sorceress vs some mix that included a few golem. They only had maybe 3 units to kill so I auto fought and they tinked the same golem over and over for a 1 or 2 damage hit while the other non-spellbound golem beat chunks out of them for 2-3 rounds and killed them all. That was one of the first full army of sorceress I had built and it seemed to take forever and cost a fortune. I was green in the gills for a while after watching that debacle.
 

DeletedUser4778

Guest
Thanks, @kayleegrrl and @varron. I was curious about the auto-fight and decided to try it since I was tired of fighting back to back and the time it consumed and Platinum Leaf does recommend semi auto-fight. I know better now. Balance the player auto-fight AI, I say!

Oh, and varron, Elven Architect lists the max strikebacks of the dogs as 3. I'm assuming this is because a cerberus has 3 heads? Maybe they'll get 4 strikebacks in the future if they get another promotion.
 

DeletedUser3696

Guest
When I unlock Rangers they will have 8-14 damage and 49 hp. My current Master Crossbowmen have 14-18 damage and 75 hp. Rangers have strike back and my crossbows have numbshot which is -30% damage for 3 rounds.
I'll take the crossbowmen anyday of the week despite them getting 1 extra movement.

As for my thoughts on strikeback against ranged attacks, simple logic debunks any arguments. If a ranged/magic unit can strike back against a ranged attack, then logic would infer they could attack multiple times per round. So bottomline is this is a fantasy based game and you have to live with some things that just aren't logical or make sense.
 
Mykan

Mykan

Oh Wise One
Due to the number of towns I play I often use auto-fight, especially in tournaments. While it could be better for fights at 1:4:1 and below it isn't too bad. Yep you have the occasionally shocker which I often expect is terrain, otherwise it works well enough for me. I figure the increased cost in troops offsets the time I saved. It is in the harder battles and higher tournament rounds that it varies a lot more, this also seems to vary by province/troop type.
 
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