Best Ancient Wonders

[Deborah M]

What server is this city on?

Remember when you pointed out that a player in my FS has no mana buildings? Still true and #5 in rankings on Elcysandir. He always scores high in tournaments so he has a stockpile of spells.

 

[DeletedUser2870]

Lets see, back to the original discussion
I built the CL for the goods it gave me when visiting. Since they -beeped- up that part by stuffing the goods in the chests and with only 3 chests a day max, AND no way to get chests on the app, this now has become a totally worthless AW for me.
I've got a fair amount of AWs in my city, all mostly for a single benefit
GA - pop
ToS-extra KPs
CL - goods (soon to be sold off though, when I need the space)
WTR - culture
DB - extra armory function
MH - both functions
PT - extra supplies
BTG - boost in portal goods, I don't use the rip-off saler
MoDM - mana
DA - mana
ETC - seeds
ST - seeds

and for military purposes
NoT
MM
SSS
ToT

 

[DeletedUser3507]

I use 4 temples of the Elements plus a DA lvl 11 and mana is going bye bye very quickly

 

[SoggyShorts]

Remember when....

I don't remember what I had for breakfast this morning....
But thank you, I found it.

I think the pure DA build is very hard for non-spenders though. Sure you might get enough spells with a level 5 MA and 5K tournament score, but I don't think viable without diamonds.

 

[Deborah M]

I don't remember what I had for breakfast this morning....
But thank you, I found it.

I think the pure DA build is very hard for non-spenders though. Sure you might get enough spells with a level 5 MA and 5K tournament score, but I don't think viable without diamonds.

You are probably right. I do know that he uses his time boosters to get more troops. I had never even thought about that. Other than that I would feel rude asking how much spend it takes.

 

[DeletedUser3507]

You are probably right. I do know that he uses his time boosters to get more troops. I had never even thought about that. Other than that I would feel rude asking how much spend it takes.

lol Think about it, I do that alot...

 

[DeletedUser9601]

I'm re-assessing the Blooming Trader Guild, and wanted to hear thoughts. 6% portal production for 21 squares always felt terrible in Woodelves (since the real guest race good was mana) and S&D (which had an artificially capped guest race footprint from the campus).

But with Halflings, Elementals and Amuni all with much larger footprints (18-20 expansions), it seems like that 6% boost comes closer to making sense. My approach has been to build, but not level, the BTG when I had space in my city to just keep the guest race techs moving along. But now I'm questioning that for Amuni, because really only the Traps/Gold buildings get the benefit (no benefit to prestige produced by the portal/associated buildings).

So how do other people weigh the value of the BTG. Do you look at the guest race footprint as a whole? Do you only look at affected buildings (which fluctuates depending on the chapter)? Or do you just build it because its not that big, and it does somewhat help progress?

 

[DeletedUser12171]

The way I look at BTG is, does the benefit from building and leveling it outweigh the benefits from building and leveling other AWs?

Look at it this way - all it does, is speed up your progress through the chapter - and that only in terms of guest race goods - it doesn't even increase mana or seed accrual. Do you really really need to speed through the chapter - especially if you're already at end game?

If I were at endgame, speeding through the chapter would be my very last priority. I'd rather devote the space and KP to more goods production or tourney-busting capability. At least I have fun doing tourneys but speeding to the end of the chapter just means a longer wait for the next one. Then what would you do with that BTG?

 

[DeletedUser9601]

Then what would you do with that BTG?

That's reason 1A why I'd never level BTG. At some point you hit end-game, and then that AW sits idle for 2-4 months waiting for each chapter.
I am just curious about a level 1 BTG (versus say another Goldmaker) from a space efficiency use.

I do think there's something to be said for speeding through chapters. Let's say I could slow-play the Amuni and finish in 4 months (with say 12 expansions for guest race stuff), or maximize research and finish in 2 months (with say 20 expansions for guest race stuff). All assumptions here, but the latter option requires 8 more expansions.

If I go fast, I lose 8 expansions for 2 months. Those expansions could be let's say 1 armory, 1 tier3 factory, and one helpful AW (factoring in population needs, culture, and streets). Maybe a bit more stuff, like an extra workshop.
If I go slow, I get 8 extra expansions to play with, but I also delay potentially important techs (in the Amuni's case - improved barracks, province expansion, improved MH, improved drone rider; for Elementals - improved training grounds, improved banshee, improved Vallorian guard). Playstyle dictates how useful those upgrades are for you.

My gut tells me I'd rather finish the research as fast as reasonably possible though, and then have 2-4 months of no guest race space. Then I'm taking my pick of:
-tons of space to crush FSAs and events
-extra armories and wonders
-extra goods production

I think its all the same math (ultimately you're devoting the same amount of resources to guest race spaces - if you think of the resources in terms of expansions per week), and the decision-making comes down to things on the margins, like playstyle.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Personally I want to finish guest races asap since that is a little challenge I set myself in an otherwise challenge-free game.

At 21 squares for 6% gain you need to be sure that your guest race producing buildings are taking up more than 350 squares(14 expansions) not including the portal. If you are devoting fewer than 14 expansions, then building extra farms/fabrications etc in those 21 squares would be better.

I think where the BTG is most powerful is in chapter 10 and 13 where there is a cap on guest race goods production that can only be overcome with diamonds, instants or the BTG.

As for the BTG sitting idle between chapters especially at the end of the tech tree, that doesn't bother me at all since my whole city is basically idle between chapter releases.

 

[DeletedUser2870]

Same for me as for Soggy, I like getting to the end of the tree.
Besides, I don't have the time to really play intensively at the tourneys, and at least to me they aren't that much fun. Far more tedious than fun in fact, but needed to gain spells and KPs, and more importantly, relics for goods that were not boosted and now are and were depleted creating spells.

As I've leveled the BTG to 11, the boost also is much more than the 6%, so that makes it definitely worthwhile.
Also, placing additional factories/armories whatever is pretty much out of the question. I simply do not have anywhere near enough pop to do so and don't want to put in more residences. The combination of space needed for other things and the total lack of a need for more gold they generate makes more residences a poor choice at this time.

I don't agree with Soggy on my city being idle between guestraces though. I'm stocking up on goods needed to buy KPs to be able to quickly unlock the first few techs so I can build the needed special buildings asap.
And with the events, a lot of space can be dedicated to workshops/factories, which is out of the question during the guestrace. I mean, this last chapter will probably need 22 expansions for the guestrace so when an (FS)event hits during the time in in that chapter, there's not much I can do.

 

[SoggyShorts]

I don't agree with Soggy on my city being idle between guestraces though. I'm stocking up on goods needed to buy KPs to be able to quickly unlock the first few techs so I can build the needed special buildings asap.

KP has always been very easy for me mostly because I'm a lazy mapper. When amuni released I was able to do the first dozen techs no problem by clearing 40 provinces and buying a few with goods/coins.
And by "idle", I mean that since nothing interesting is happening I'm repeating
set productions, do visits, do tournament, take trades, dump KP
9h later
reset productions, dump KP

That's basically it unless there is an event, then my city is interesting again for 3-7 days.
I think after I finish Amuni I may go truly idle and come back to the game for chapter 14....but I thought I'd do that between 12&13 too, so we'll see.

 

[Pheryll]

I think after I finish Amuni I may go truly idle and come back to the game for chapter 14....but I thought I'd do that between 12&13 too, so we'll see.

Inno, we need another diamond building. Soggy needs to keep coming back to this game every 12 hours until the next chapter is released.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Inno, we need another diamond building. Soggy needs to keep coming back to this game every 12 hours until the next chapter is released.

LMAO so true I completely fell for that one!

 

[DeletedUser14363]

Martial Monastery/Sanctuary – if you’re a fighter, then it’s a “must have” AW. If you’re not, it’s still good because it’s better than any regular culture building.

Thanks so much for your pragmatic review. While I'm nowhere near being able to build them all yet, I agree with your assessment of the ones I CAN and HAVE built, and your rationale for the ones I HAVEN'T and WON'T build. e.g. culture bonus matters to me, so I see the CL and Watchtower as a necessary diad, don't care about the goods that the CL doesn't deliver as much of anymore since I'm awash in goods but am after the extended help duration. I came to the same conclusion about the Needles: I don't need to buff ONE troop type that isn't used all that often, nor do I need to create more idle time while I sleep. I'll be referring back to your review as I progress through the chapters.

I (auto)fight tourneys and cater provinces (yes, I know, that's back-assward). Apparently, there's some ambiguity around whether troop buffs work in tourney. Some players have stated that the buffs may ONLY work in provinces. I'd like to put up Monasteries in all 5 of my towns now that the culture pain is resolved for a while. Can you, or anyone else, provide a definitive answer as to whether the health buff applies to tourney fights? I'd hate to pour the kay-pee into them, only to find out that they don't work with my playing style...

BTW, the MH's goods production being based on the UNBOOSTED amount just saved me a LOT of space. I'm grateful to have learned this before I built the thing. Cheers!

 

[DeletedUser9601]

Definitely all troop buffs from AWs apply to tourney fights. No idea who told you otherwise and what they based that claim on.

 

[Risen Malchiah]

I (auto)fight tourneys and cater provinces (yes, I know, that's back-assward). Apparently, there's some ambiguity around whether troop buffs work in tourney. Some players have stated that the buffs may ONLY work in provinces. I'd like to put up Monasteries in all 5 of my towns now that the culture pain is resolved for a while. Can you, or anyone else, provide a definitive answer as to whether the health buff applies to tourney fights?

The Sanctuary/Monastery health benefits apply to provinces AND tournaments, making it an essential AW for anyone who fights. The longer your troops last, the less you have to rebuild to recover so you can sustain a good tourney average from week to week.

Catering in world provinces and fighting in tournaments is a good strategy actually. If you are the type of player who expands on the world map as often as possible, you will inevitably hit provinces that can't be fought anyway. This also lets you avoid the optional squad size upgrades.

The encounter difficulty on the world map is based on how many provinces you've completed and how far the province is from your city. (In that case, squad size upgrades could increase your chances against ever-larger enemies.) Whereas in the tournament, the difficulty is based on your squad size, in theory to make the difficulty the same for everyone. The end result however is that players who skip the squad upgrades ultimately need fewer troops to complete the same number of provinces.

The only downside to skipping squad size upgrades that I see is that the Dwarven Bulwark might feel a bit weak since its benefits are tied to your squad size, but the Shrooms (based on total armory levels) more than makes up for that.

 

[SoggyShorts]

TW, the MH's goods production being based on the UNBOOSTED amount just saved me a LOT of space.

Here is a thread where I prove that the Mountain Halls actually saves you space, and is therefore a must have wonder:
https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/mountain-halls-ripoff.14857/#post-88575

I'd like to put up Monasteries in all 5 of my towns now that the culture pain is resolved for a while. Can you, or anyone else, provide a definitive answer as to whether the health buff applies to tourney fights?

Yes it does.

g. culture bonus matters to me, so I see the CL and Watchtower as a necessary

This may change based on 2 major factors: 1: How many buffs you get per day from your FS, and 2: Do you need mana? I loved the WT CL combo right up until woodelves where I had to build so many Weeping Willows for mana that I had 170% culture bonus with zero FS buffs.

I came to the same conclusion about the Needles: I don't need to buff ONE troop type that isn't used all that often, nor do I need to create more idle time while I sleep.

Eventually, you should reach a point where your barracks is at max level, and you have enough SSS/bulkwark levels and armories that your queue lasts overnight. At that point, the needles is the best way to improve your military production.
In order to balance out your production and keep your idle time at zero I made this little calculator:
www.tinyurl.com/trainingcalc

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

I recently noticed the bulwark at the higher chapters is an amazing space saver.

Anywhere between 2(lvl1)-16(lvl 30) or so armouries of troop production size, which is massive.

 

[DeletedUser9601]

I came to the same conclusion about the Needles: I don't need to buff ONE troop type that isn't used all that often

Honestly, this isn't a good conclusion.
It boosts one troop, but that one troop-type is 20% of all troops, meaning its useful in 20% of all your fights. That's alot! Plus, its a boost to damage (as opposed to health), and it increases faster than the health boost of MM/Sanctuary. For ranged troops with high initiatives (aka archers), that is infinitely better. Because you do more initial damage, meaning the enemy does LESS damage to you on your turn. And this compounds with each turn.

It feels painful to have 5 AWs just for the troop-specific boosts, but if you want to have consistent high performance in tourneys, its a no-brainer. And honestly, everyone who is moderately active SHOULD want that tourney success. With all 5 AWs (Needles, Dragon Abbey, Heroes Forge, Temple of Toads, Victory Springs), plus Monastery/Sanctuary, its really easy to consistently hit 1,500 tourney points, and 2K/week doesn't take much more. You get tons of KP to feed back into these wonders, and it becomes a self-sustaining economy.

In the meantime, you've given up say 5 expansions worth of space (which you'll easily get back via additional provinces being cleared on the world map) AND you'll be reaping all the benefits of that tourney success (relics, spells, runes, and maybe more importantly, being an attractive candidate for top-level FSes - which leads to more trades, better FSA results, more global tourney rewards like KP and blueprints). I forget the Q&A where Timon/Ryke said that they designed AWs with the assumption that you'd want EACH ONE (assuming it matches playstyle). I think that is 100% the case for all military AWs if you're active in tourneys.