Pheryll
Set Designer
If you do only the first floor each week, then the gates are not really a problem, are they?
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Your Elvenar Team
If you do only the first floor each week, then the gates are not really a problem, are they?
DeletedUser1766
Guest
Yes the gates are a problem if I want to complete the spire. My timezone means that I miss out on the start and the end of tournaments so I never get to level 6. This appears to be the same with the spire. the 9 and 12 hour gates mean that I miss out on level 3 because the event will end while I am asleep and I have no intention of getting up in the middle of the night to try and do a few chests knowing that there is another gate that is probably 9 hours or at least 2 that will mean the event times out before I can finish. I started the event when the morning that it first appeared but from memory it was only 64 hours.
Most games are set on US time which is fine for the US players but disadvantages the rest of the world when the events are strictly timed. I live with the fact that I cannot do the full tournament and so I do twice the number of provinces to earn enough points to help my fellowship but with events like the spire I cannot do this so I just miss out. This is a problem I have with all online games which is one of the reason I am returning to offline games as much as possible.
Most games are set on US time which is fine for the US players but disadvantages the rest of the world when the events are strictly timed. I live with the fact that I cannot do the full tournament and so I do twice the number of provinces to earn enough points to help my fellowship but with events like the spire I cannot do this so I just miss out. This is a problem I have with all online games which is one of the reason I am returning to offline games as much as possible.
DeletedUser14756
Guest
I will not be playing in the Spire again. It cost too much for what you receive.
GlamDoll
Well-Known Member
I have gleamed so much from your posts in the year I have been playing....but I am truly at a loss for words with your response. Please tell the class that you are joking/trolling/whatever....anything other than you are dead serious will do. Thank you. I am stunned speechless, and regardless, that is no small feat to pull off at 50 1/2 yrs young
.......................just wow.....................
GlamDoll
Well-Known Member
Sadly, the deck is stacked against us....IDK if it is of any comfort....but, you are not alone.
GlamDoll
Well-Known Member
Hey!! Inno! You know something might be amiss, when you have a gamer posting in the forums, more than they are actually playing the game....just an fyi, to whomever it may/may not concern. I run an entire fellowship, army of one...for reasons. AND, I have another 4-5 cities in another exclusive fellowship. These are the measures that a late comer to the party, such as myself, have to go through.
I do not expect my "drop-in-the-bucket" contributions here, to amount to much, if anything... I have been dragged around "the block" more than I care to admit throughout the course of my life.................SO, I will get down to my zillion dollar question to you. Are you gonna pull a Disney with Star Wars & Marvel , or not? Or be like Gillette? IDK if I will wait years, for an answer. You are not the only game in town....is all I am saying.
Thanks.
I do not expect my "drop-in-the-bucket" contributions here, to amount to much, if anything... I have been dragged around "the block" more than I care to admit throughout the course of my life.................SO, I will get down to my zillion dollar question to you. Are you gonna pull a Disney with Star Wars & Marvel , or not? Or be like Gillette? IDK if I will wait years, for an answer. You are not the only game in town....is all I am saying.
Thanks.
Pheryll
Set Designer
You are mentioning going past the first floor. My point was only for the gates of the first floor.
Perhaps the first floor itself is consuming too many resources for sustained play, but the rewards of the first floor encompass everything you can find on the later floors except the genie as a percentage chance for completing the third floor. My point is that by limiting yourself to the first floor you don't lose much opportunity for any specific prize and you do not need to bear the burden of the higher costs of the second floor. Even if you cannot sustain the first floor each week, completing only the first floor when you are able is the most economically efficient means of getting the rewards. You should definitely be able to go through the three gates within the first floor (you don't need to go through the final gate after the boss battle) without a time schedule problem.
GlamDoll
Well-Known Member
Thank you for your reply. Perhaps I am not being objective, and all, but I do agree with it not being substainable...at least, personally, at my current "stage" of the game. As for the genie you mentioned, it is not even a carrot on a stick for me. Oh, please don't get me wrong. I love the artwork. ( I would be head-over-heels, if it was like Jinn in the anime of RWBY)....but, it really is no consequence to me, seeing that the Genie is a temporary building. I'll just stick to WW's, and/or buying diamonds. ( Which, at this juncture, I'd rather watch my plants grow, or watch paint dry).
Although, I agree completely with this, it is akin to saying we don't need the 10th chest in tourneys (for the ever elusive rare pokemon....AKA, blueprint).
The only reason why I even bother doing 4-5 chests, SOLO, in my army of 1 tourneys, is for the RR's spells....and I am even wondering if that is worth it, now that I stupidly took optional squad upgrades that nerfed me into oblivion >..>
If I ever do venture into The Spire again, rest assured, the 1st floor is AT max, as far as I am able to afford...unless I want it to gimp me in the tourneys and take well over a week to get back my losses.
Thanks for your reply. Cheers!
Mykan
Oh Wise One
Well it wasn't in unison, which is the problem. Those who voiced it on the forums were very clear, its the ones who didn't and played the spire that are saying by their actions that they like it and accept those losses. Those are the ones showing in the statistics and those are the ones inno are listening too. Unless those not playing it become loud enough in statistics it will never change. Hopefully with the larger live population of players the point finally gets through.
GlamDoll
Well-Known Member
I truly hope you are right...but I think I am more of a realist than an optimist. I am still "floored" that the art can be so amazing in this game, on so many levels...but game play seems to be another matter entirely. Maybe they should not only look at statistics, but also at how many people they have already "lost"??? I still regret not posting before now...but I didn't know Soggy left until after the fact. I learned so much in the times I did "lurk" on the forums.
I am fairly certain there is an adage, or two, that applies.....
At any rate, my latest game goal now, is to be among the statistics, that are considered to be loud enough in not playing, in hopes of change.
I can't believe the day finally came, in my life...that I have resorted to wanting to be a mere statistic....My, how the tables have turned. >.>
I remember when playing games was a no-brainer & fun, without all of this "bloat"....yes, my best friend was a dinosaur, you're welcome
Alistaire
Well-Known Member
I always figured if you play on a beta format, playing the content doesn't mean liking it, it means you're participating in beta. Maybe you like it, but more likely you're just doing "due diligence" in testing it, and some people consider that to just be testing for bugs.
Sir Squirrel
Artist EXTRAORDINAIRE and Buddy Fan Club member
Hey Nimrethil, the time zone that the game runs on is a Germany time zone not US I believe, and if you really want to get through the gates faster you can click on the green hourglass beside the blue diamond button and use time instants to speed up the wait timer.
Enevhar Aldarion
Oh Wise One
Yes it is, but it is still weirdly implemented. Here in the US, we get screwed over on the start time for all Events and the Fellowship Adventures, with them starting between 2AM and 6AM, depending on your US time zone and Daylight Savings. But then we get the tournaments starting at a decent time for US players, with that being between 10AM and 2PM based on time zone and DST. As for the Spire, I totally did not pay attention to when it started, so I do not know if it is on the Event time schedule or the tournament time schedule.
Enevhar Aldarion
Oh Wise One
To be fair though, the main complaint as voiced in near unison by the players was;
'These costs are insane - everything is like 300x more costly than our basic squad sizes - it's impossible to even begin to recoup those ruinous losses!'
Inno's response was;
'We decreased the squad sizes by 20% guys!'
So, in reality, 20% of 300% overcosted reduces it to a still eye-wateringly stupid 240% overcost what it should be.
(same deal with the negotiation part - yeah, they decreased the costs by 20-50%, but when it starts out at even worse than the military costs, it's still unsustainable for 95% of the player base.
On the squad size thing, all the fights on the first floor had my Spire squad size below my actual squad size, which is 3984. That is all squad size upgrades from all 14 chapters, but I do not have either AW built that boosts squad size, or anything else that does that I know of. The first fight of the second floor gives me a Spire squad size of 6677 and an enemy squad size of 6717, which would be fine if not for all the fights being at least two waves. And I can only guess that the squad sizes continue to grow the further I go?
Sir Squirrel
Artist EXTRAORDINAIRE and Buddy Fan Club member
Yeah and the boss at the end of second stage has 3 waves of troops to beat. I don't know how bad the third stage was as I was too disappointed to bother opening the door to look!!!
DeletedUser2870
Guest
This Spire is extremely unbalanced.
From what I have tried with both my main city and some testcities, only the first stage of the first round can actually be seen as do-able for every level player, and then only when fighting.
The amount of goods needed for the negotiations, where one has only random chances of choosing what goes where is ridiculously high.
That in itself means that the spire favors players who fight over those who mostly negotiate the rest of the game, a poor concept.
The fights are only do-able further on for those who fight often and have a lot of boosts for their troops. But halfway the second time through the spire the squadsize of the troops I have to fight with are more than double the squadsizes I fight with in a province. What gives with that? Do I suddenly need twice as many troops in a squad? My regular squadsize is 3984 (end of techtree, all squadsize upgrades researched). Halfway through the second time in the tower the squads I have to put in are sized 10.481, or almost 3x a regular squad. That is not just unbalanced anymore, that is absurd.
The rewards are rather skimpy for the effort one has to put in. Even with boosts from my AWs and an UUU, the losses in troops at that point are staggering, even on manual fights. Not surprising since the number of troops involved is ridiculous.
And for what? one single 5 hour boost from a chest? Don't make me laugh. Just retraining the losses will take 3x that time or more, so it is an extremely bad investment, both of troops and of my time. The spellfragments are nice, but 500 for those losses? Thanks, but no thanks. I can do better getting spells from the tourney to disenchant.
From what I have tried with both my main city and some testcities, only the first stage of the first round can actually be seen as do-able for every level player, and then only when fighting.
The amount of goods needed for the negotiations, where one has only random chances of choosing what goes where is ridiculously high.
That in itself means that the spire favors players who fight over those who mostly negotiate the rest of the game, a poor concept.
The fights are only do-able further on for those who fight often and have a lot of boosts for their troops. But halfway the second time through the spire the squadsize of the troops I have to fight with are more than double the squadsizes I fight with in a province. What gives with that? Do I suddenly need twice as many troops in a squad? My regular squadsize is 3984 (end of techtree, all squadsize upgrades researched). Halfway through the second time in the tower the squads I have to put in are sized 10.481, or almost 3x a regular squad. That is not just unbalanced anymore, that is absurd.
The rewards are rather skimpy for the effort one has to put in. Even with boosts from my AWs and an UUU, the losses in troops at that point are staggering, even on manual fights. Not surprising since the number of troops involved is ridiculous.
And for what? one single 5 hour boost from a chest? Don't make me laugh. Just retraining the losses will take 3x that time or more, so it is an extremely bad investment, both of troops and of my time. The spellfragments are nice, but 500 for those losses? Thanks, but no thanks. I can do better getting spells from the tourney to disenchant.
DeletedUser13990
Guest
So. Um. Lemme know if you overhaul this. That was ridiculous and a diamond wh... hog. So, really, thanks for the 50 diamond reward at the very last gate of level 3! It probably cost me at least 300 diamonds to get it! Cool!
Not.
Seriously. So since a tourney is taking place. Atm I have over 7k units of lizards in my standing army. Like if I went through a province. In the SPIRE, though... that doesn't even get me one full squad. You must be joking and heaven help you if you lose cuz you're entire army is wiped out, you might have just jilted your FS out of 10th chest and best hope you didn't need an expansion (not that there's any left at this level). Wheeee!
So fine. Convince all the way. Except was it somewhere before the end of level, uh, 1? There's more options to barter with than there are people to barter with. Six is ok though expensive. After 6 it's outrageous and so obvious with the little 25 diamond pop up. Kinda tacky, dontcha think?
So. Ok. Did that. Got a whole lot of fragments. Which. Pointless considering how many spells (I do tourneys in a big way) and prizes (I do events in a big way too) I can just defragment instead. Maybe got 2 buildings through all those chests. Got some instants to go with the 200 unused instants I already have.
I do not usually even read the forums, much less post here, because I think it's full of whiners and complainers and just a fountain of misinformation. I've played this game since 2015. Spire was awful enough to warrant remembering my password and logging in just to give my "feedback". Horrifyingly anti-player is a good description for it.
Ok the graphics were nice. Could used a hey, you completed the spire! message, for as much as it cost to get through it. And that would be with OR without diamonds.
Cheap, hasty, and desperate for diamonds. And there is my feedback.
Not.
Seriously. So since a tourney is taking place. Atm I have over 7k units of lizards in my standing army. Like if I went through a province. In the SPIRE, though... that doesn't even get me one full squad. You must be joking and heaven help you if you lose cuz you're entire army is wiped out, you might have just jilted your FS out of 10th chest and best hope you didn't need an expansion (not that there's any left at this level). Wheeee!
So fine. Convince all the way. Except was it somewhere before the end of level, uh, 1? There's more options to barter with than there are people to barter with. Six is ok though expensive. After 6 it's outrageous and so obvious with the little 25 diamond pop up. Kinda tacky, dontcha think?
So. Ok. Did that. Got a whole lot of fragments. Which. Pointless considering how many spells (I do tourneys in a big way) and prizes (I do events in a big way too) I can just defragment instead. Maybe got 2 buildings through all those chests. Got some instants to go with the 200 unused instants I already have.
I do not usually even read the forums, much less post here, because I think it's full of whiners and complainers and just a fountain of misinformation. I've played this game since 2015. Spire was awful enough to warrant remembering my password and logging in just to give my "feedback". Horrifyingly anti-player is a good description for it.
Ok the graphics were nice. Could used a hey, you completed the spire! message, for as much as it cost to get through it. And that would be with OR without diamonds.
Cheap, hasty, and desperate for diamonds. And there is my feedback.
DeletedUser13990
Guest
OK I thought of some constructive criticism.
The easiest way to fix this would be to make convincing fixed. As in. No matter how many tries it takes you, the spirits you're trying to negotiate with always want the same thing. Not this reset and start from scratch every try. So the halfling wants obsidian. and if you can't figure that out by round 3 and have to exit, next time you go in the halfling STILL wants obsidian.
That would at least make it a basic logic game instead of what it is right now: Pure chance.
Fixed negotiating item. Simple.
And maybe put squad size back to reasonable. I was at <1 squad ever since the 2nd gate in level 1 and because of it I was forced to negotiate in tourneys. I NEVER negotiate in tourneys. Really, Inno. That Spire showed us all we're nothing but milk cows.At least pretend we're valued customers, thanks.
The easiest way to fix this would be to make convincing fixed. As in. No matter how many tries it takes you, the spirits you're trying to negotiate with always want the same thing. Not this reset and start from scratch every try. So the halfling wants obsidian. and if you can't figure that out by round 3 and have to exit, next time you go in the halfling STILL wants obsidian.
That would at least make it a basic logic game instead of what it is right now: Pure chance.
Fixed negotiating item. Simple.
And maybe put squad size back to reasonable. I was at <1 squad ever since the 2nd gate in level 1 and because of it I was forced to negotiate in tourneys. I NEVER negotiate in tourneys. Really, Inno. That Spire showed us all we're nothing but milk cows.At least pretend we're valued customers, thanks.
ET-inf3rno
Well-Known Member
Ye' I know this is not Super Mario, but still...LOL
To be fair though, the main complaint as voiced in near unison by the players was;
'These costs are insane - everything is like 300x more costly than our basic squad sizes - it's impossible to even begin to recoup those ruinous losses!'
Inno's response was;
'We decreased the squad sizes by 20% guys!'
So, in reality, 20% of 300% overcosted reduces it to a still eye-wateringly stupid 240% overcost what it should be.
(same deal with the negotiation part - yeah, they decreased the costs by 20-50%, but when it starts out at even worse than the military costs, it's still unsustainable for 95% of the player base.
So sure, Inno listened...
Too bad it's at best just barely cosmetic vs. any actual balance. >.<
As you say, the best thing we can all do is to just ignore this feature even exists for the time being, and hope that numbers plummet so hard that the devs are forced to pull their heads outa their backsides and adjust this thing properly.
That's when helps that I accidentally did almost all optional SSU-s (maybe it does not depend on that, idk).
Still I needed some UUU and ELR to finish it with fights. It was really eating up archers.I completely finished the Spire. My prize for defeating the final boss? It was either a 5 or 10% Portal profit.
Completely did not worth it here. The only useful thing is spell fragments and the HP building which will expire after 5 days. Just wonder if I left some hidden grand prizes.
I think I used up at least 2x more resources than what I got from it, but that is typical by playing the tourney too, so not an issue... What I am still missing is doing something with the building. E.g. if you defeat the final boss it would have been nice to destroy it or keep it in your city. None of that happened. The buildings it gave will be ok-ish for disenchanting. They are small though, so don't worth much. I have a lot better buildings from previous events, so most of them are useless otherwise.I used up time boosters and diamonds to open those gates. I don't like to wait and I have plenty of both. Without them I would be able to finish maybe the first level, not the entire thing.
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HJK84
Well-Known Member
Spent 100's of 
to convince.
Was able to fight a few times, even in the 2nd Spire. (Only had 1 UUU run' for Tournament)
Only 1 gate left in 3rd Spire for Boss level, but timer will run out before it opens. And won't be spending more to open it.
My opinions;
Fighting:
If you use Military Buffs, it will help with fighting. But, even if you're a Pro and do all Manual, some of the 3 wave fights are so mixed up, you just can't win (unless you use many many buffs).
The losses to units is ridiculous.
Convincing:
Costs to much
Cost of Goods for me wasn't a problem.
And I was easily able to recoup my Supply while waiting for next Gate to open.
Rewards:
Total poop. Stuff look good, but unworthy. Specially if you compare the difficulty and % chance to get what you "might" want.
Ideas;
Imo. this is a Event, for players who do not play Tournaments, weekly.
These players have tons of Troops and Goods just stock piling for "no" reason, and the Spire "might" be a fun place for them to have fun in. Because players who don't partake in Tournaments, are mostly playing alone, without a FS. Same as the Spire, a place to play alone and advance in
Even the Set offered in Spire is quite useless for devoted Tourny players.
To get us more interested;
A: 1st give everyone who partook in the Spire event another Gift! Because some of us did a lot of analyzing and testing
B: Balance out the Fights.
C: Higher the Rewards by a huge margin. Either % or more prizes; example 1 x 50% PP => 3 x 50% PP
D: Higher the output of the Moonstone Library Set, by a huge margin. Or Change it. Or offer another Set, cause as I said before, this Set is quite useless for committed Tournament players. I know the Set is quite small and looks cool (imo.), sad at the bonus' offered by it though
And that's all folks!
P.S.
I will probably never spend again in Spire and just stop playing when/if I get stuck (convincing/gates)
And if I realize my Goods diminishing, I will totally stop entering the Spire.
All this is, if nothing changes, duh
to convince.Was able to fight a few times, even in the 2nd Spire. (Only had 1 UUU run' for Tournament)
Only 1 gate left in 3rd Spire for Boss level, but timer will run out before it opens. And won't be spending more
to open it.My opinions;
Fighting:
If you use Military Buffs, it will help with fighting. But, even if you're a Pro and do all Manual, some of the 3 wave fights are so mixed up, you just can't win (unless you use many many buffs).
The losses to units is ridiculous.
Convincing:
Costs to much
Cost of Goods for me wasn't a problem.
And I was easily able to recoup my Supply while waiting for next Gate to open.
Rewards:
Total poop. Stuff look good, but unworthy. Specially if you compare the difficulty and % chance to get what you "might" want.
Ideas;
Imo. this is a Event, for players who do not play Tournaments, weekly.
These players have tons of Troops and Goods just stock piling for "no" reason, and the Spire "might" be a fun place for them to have fun in. Because players who don't partake in Tournaments, are mostly playing alone, without a FS. Same as the Spire, a place to play alone and advance in
Even the Set offered in Spire is quite useless for devoted Tourny players.
To get us more interested;
A: 1st give everyone who partook in the Spire event another Gift! Because some of us did a lot of analyzing and testing
B: Balance out the Fights.
C: Higher the Rewards by a huge margin. Either % or more prizes; example 1 x 50% PP => 3 x 50% PP
D: Higher the output of the Moonstone Library Set, by a huge margin. Or Change it. Or offer another Set, cause as I said before, this Set is quite useless for committed Tournament players. I know the Set is quite small and looks cool (imo.), sad at the bonus' offered by it though
And that's all folks!
P.S.
I will probably never spend
again in Spire and just stop playing when/if I get stuck (convincing/gates)And if I realize my Goods diminishing, I will totally stop entering the Spire.
All this is, if nothing changes, duh