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Autumn Zodiac Event Feedback

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Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
Some of this with the factory and workshop requirements almost sounds like a punishment from Inno for the players who dare to ignore the story and the quest line that goes with it. After all, if you were playing the game the way it was originally intended, you would have at least some properly leveled factories and workshops because you would be completing the quests that require specific numbers of current-level buildings. Now, this does not help end-game players who need fewer buildings in general, but then, they have already completed the story quests by then anyway.
 

Pheryll

Set Designer
Some of this with the factory and workshop requirements almost sounds like a punishment from Inno for the players who dare to ignore the story and the quest line that goes with it. After all, if you were playing the game the way it was originally intended, you would have at least some properly leveled factories and workshops because you would be completing the quests that require specific numbers of current-level buildings. Now, this does not help end-game players who need fewer buildings in general, but then, they have already completed the story quests by then anyway.

If you are playing the game as the chapter quests outline, you could easily be caught blindsided with only six total manufactories, one of which produces boosted T1. One manufactory is below what this event is designed around. Many people are holding back going into the Amuni chapter because of the higher manufactory event requirements. Just wait till chapter 16 comes out, where chapter 15 levels are going to be demanded. That is going to be a bit of sentient goods funneled into your T1 buildings just to level them up to the needed level.
 

chgobob33

Member
I never post been playing for 1.5 years in 5 worlds. This is the most messed up event EVER. The new changes just made things worse they make scouting more common by lower the OBNOXIOUS workshop tasks. Then they decrease the max keys from 180 to like 80 that is NUTS!!!! Basically making it ridiculous and permanently hurting your city. ie Permanent DAMAGE like overscouting, excessive buy 10 KPs, solve encounters or tourny encounters/relics which become insane with the increased number of quests to even evolve 1 bear.

It was estimated you needed like 120 quests before they screwed players more cutting the number of keys. This new team is terrible hire the old folks back, beg them if you must. I'm ready to drop the event and thinking about the game entirely.

This is the 1st event that was released to beta and especially live WAY before it should have left the programmers or designers desk!!!!!!! I'm in IT software development, it's ridiculous that a bug I found today ever made it to Beta let along in the Live worlds W. The tooltip and quest have Elve level requirements for HUMANS in Chapter 4 etc. That should have been caught in Unit Tests or System test before it got to Beta! The bug has been re[orted and STILL NOT FIXED.

Finally as many in Beta warned you about but the INNO team should have realized it is WRONG to require so many high level T1 when players acted logically and rely on the new Mermaids buildings to supply a good portion of their T1 as intended.
 

RainbowSKYEPIXIE

Well-Known Member
I've gotten "scout 1 province or research 1 technology or gain 15 vision vapor" FIVE TIMES just today. With 1 other quest in between each. Grrrrrr... I'm out of time instants and research.
I'm on my 4th of the same quest for today and yes with the recruit units in between each one of those. The random quest thing is not working for me at all. Can someone tell me why is it that they do not want us to win the grand prizes in the events any longer? I mean I thought it was rough & hard enough work before they messed with any of this stuff. Do the people who stay in game all the time & build 100 level 1 ws' & manus really out number the ones who have a job & life outside of the game? I just don't understand how or why a handful or small percentage of abusers get to wreck the game for the majority of the players. I am so sad it has come to this. I love/loved this game! :(
 

DeletedUser21745

Guest
Not happy at all with this event or with the latest update

I have already wasted a week and a half of my time upgrading my workshops and buildings before the event started and then again during the event. I have depleted my population and used up space that I was saving for the next chapter.

I think this whole concept of WS-3 and chap-1 is a stupid waste that detracts from the fun of the game. It imposes a game style dictated by Inno that conflicts with how I enjoy playing the game.

With this latest change I have received "Scout a province, complete a research or gain 15 vision vapor" 4 times out of the last 6 tasks. For me scouting a province takes 36 hours. I am chewing through speed boosts just so that I can complete 1 task per day.

There is no way that I am going to be able to finish enough tasks to make the new buildings worth while.
I am going to stop wasting my boosts and will probably also stop playing the event.
Its too bad I can't recover what I have already wasted doing upgrades that I never wanted to do in the first place.

This whole change was a change for the worse.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
I am thinking I must be the odd one when it comes to workshops. I have had 10 of them since early game and have kept them upgraded to current chapter for most of my playing time. So I am at the end of chapter 14 with 10 maxed out workshops, but I only had one current chapter marble manufactory. However, with the advance warning of the event on Beta, I leveled up two more, but I am thinking I should have done another one because three 9-hour productions do not quite make enough marble for the Produce X Amount of Marble quest, even with MMs active.

But whatever. I am doing alright so far, as I am on quest 58 and yes, I have used some Time instants, but the events are exactly what I save them for, so I am good.
 

Alistaire

Well-Known Member
I am thinking I must be the odd one when it comes to workshops. I have had 10 of them since early game....
You're not odd. Everyone plays a little different, builds a little different, prefers a little different ways of achieving the same goals.

And it should be this way. You're not wrong for using those buildings "as intended" and neither are other people who've changed based on the game giving out ferris wheels, wonders or whatever else.
 

Deleted User - 312108

Guest
@chgobob33 Oh my, you are like my twin! :) I am also in IT development and am not entirely certain IG DOES unit testing let alone anything more comprehensive internally.

@Enevhar Aldarion I had 10, but they were not maxed and as I went into chapters 6 & 7 I've reduced down to 8 as I've upgraded. (I need population and space!). I will have to see if I can get back up to 10. I do tend to build with an eye toward ease of completing events (and having a mountain of goods).
 

DeletedUser22810

Guest
I have never felt the need to come write in the Discussion forum because I have always loved the events and their structure, until this.

It's obvious the devs are struggling with pace; and with the unnecessary desire to please their entire player base by offering everyone the chance to be equally as miserable as one another in the completion of event quests.

What's also obvious to me, is that the devs do listen, but it's also ironic (I don't know if the devs even realize it) we've come full circle from Phoenix.

Phoenix & Stonehenge:
#1 complaint with events before Phoenix was space, so they implement FoE evolving buildings, which fixes complaints for space, still limited quest list. So not alot of people ended up with 2 Phoenixes, maybe 2% of player base.
#2 Then people complain that the phoenix buildings are so good; but they were unable to get one due to some people having cheat sheets prior to the event. Here's a suggestion, why doesn't inno pre-publish the list to everyone so everyone gets a head start, not just us active players who actually look on forums and compare with the BETA list (something we should be rewarded for anyways by being able to get a higher level Phoenix for more active work and research)

Mermaids
#3 After the complaints cheat sheets vs. no cheat sheets, they said hey : let's make it unlimited so that way everyone can do what they want and only have their own participation to blame in the event of under-levelled prize buildings (Mermaid). This took care of cheat sheets, and seemingly made everyone happy as even beginners thought : "Hey! I can probably win everything since it's unlimited", which they did. Some of us even won 5-10 Mermaid buildings. But unfortunately everyone winning is not what INNO wants. So before people complained about lack of pace, now there was too much pace.

Autumn Zodiac
#4 With so many prizes won in Mermaids, there had to be a massive taper effect on how many prizes could be won. Out of the 100's of ways to limit pace, they chose to restrict WS and T1 levels. No comment.

But in doing so, do you guys realize you've literally come full circle from Phoenix with absolutely no progress? Before, with cheat sheets, 20-40% of people got ONE lvl10 Phoenix. Maybe 5% max got TWO lvl10 Phoenix. That's a perfect distribution.....Same with Stonehenge...Mermaids once again most players got 1 lvl 10, maybe 5% got 2 or more (by the way, this was your most popular event due to this same fact...)

And now back to Autumn Zodiac, where actually people will be hard pressed to get ONE lvl10 bear.

The conclusion: you guys have literally ruined a perfect normal distribution for prizes that you had in Phoenix and Stonehenge, in the hopes of providing "fairness". I guess by "fairness" you mean someone in a Chapter 1 city should have same capacity at winning AS MANY grand prizes as a Chapter 13 city. That is not fairness; that's trying to please everyone regardless of their time invested in the game; and the hardcore players won't have any of it as you guys are currently seeing in this entire thread and the beta thread, which is why you've now done TWO updates within TWO first days of the event, I've never seen that, it means you guys know somethings severely wrong and aren't sure how to perma fix it.

Here's your perma fix :

You guys need to once again reward the players for ACTIVITY, not for just having an account with a login button.

A player who has the capacity to devote 50% of his city to lvl1 ws and T1, and who plays 8-12 hours a day, should win FAR FAR FAR MORE grand prizes than a Chapter 1 player who plays for 15 minutes and has no space for extra buildings.

Think about who pays for diamonds for a second; only people who are heavily already invested time-wise into their city. And those are the people you are driving away right now because you're not paying rewards based off activity anymore, you're trying to put everyone in the same boat and quite frankly this game has too many variables for that.

Past quest 150, all quests should be almost impossible for inactive players.
Put : Make 40 x 3hr T1 cooks, Make 100 Beverages, Make 30 Bread, that way if people don't get their building to lvl10, or don't get 2 or 3 or 4 grand prize buildings, THEY ONLY HAVE THEMSELVES TO BLAME AND NOT INNO!!!!!

FYI & PS: You guys are gamers. You've seen what patches did to World of Warcraft & Star Wars Galaxies PAYING player bases, and you've seen Blizzard try and save the brand recently by putting out WoW classic.

Why you guys pay so much attention to Chapter 3 cities complaining about their Level 5 Stonehenge on the same forums where two posts below you can find the full Stonehenge quest list from TomatoHue which ensures a Level 9, I have no clue. If they can't search for information they do not deserve be rewarded as much as someone who puts together an entire spreadsheet for a virtual game event guys, let's be real here, they also don't spend a tenth as much $$$...

Thanks for listening,
 
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Alistaire

Well-Known Member
A player who has the capacity to devote 50% of his city to lvl1 ws and T1, and who plays 8-12 hours a day, should win FAR FAR FAR MORE grand prizes than a Chapter 1 player who plays for 15 minutes and has no space for extra buildings.

Thank you. This point should've come up dozens of times by now and seemingly hasn't.

But hey, at least Inno solved this "problem" of needing shantytowns right?

9oVl8e4.png

...and yeah I needed that to keep up with levelling buildings I don't generally need.
 

DeletedUser24282

Guest
I am new to Elvenar and only in level 1 on the first (default) world. I was happily collecting golden keys until I was asked to collect 3 vision vapors. Since I have miles to go before I can build a magic academy and craft items, my Autumn Zodiac Event is done. Is this how it's supposed to be?
 

Alistaire

Well-Known Member
I am new to Elvenar and only in level 1 on the first (default) world. I was happily collecting golden keys until I was asked to collect 3 vision vapors. Since I have miles to go before I can build a magic academy and craft items, my Autumn Zodiac Event is done. Is this how it's supposed to be?
This at least can be handled; contact support and they can force-skip the quest.
 

chgobob33

Member
Yeah, I think you are. I'm done with Constructs and had 5 Workshops at level 18 or 19 and was constantly dumping supplies into the trader because I keep maxing 4100K MH storage. No need for any higher workshops or more than 5, I was very comfortable going thru Constructs. I also do approx 2000 points in the tourny every week easily.

I am thinking I must be the odd one when it comes to workshops. I have had 10 of them since early game and have kept them upgraded to current chapter for most of my playing time. So I am at the end of chapter 14 with 10 maxed out workshops, but I only had one current chapter marble manufactory. However, with the advance warning of the event on Beta, I leveled up two more, but I am thinking I should have done another one because three 9-hour productions do not quite make enough marble for the Produce X Amount of Marble quest, even with MMs active.

But whatever. I am doing alright so far, as I am on quest 58 and yes, I have used some Time instants, but the events are exactly what I save them for, so I am good.
 

DeletedUser1230

Guest
I have several cities and decided to quit for the ones that require me to upgrade Tier 1 to level 16. I have several cities on Chapter 8 and a couple new ones. The new ones are fine as I am only required to have level 10 Tier 1. I have more than enough goods with over 1 million on most of my Chapter 8 cities. Will the main game require more massive amounts of goods, will I have to upgrade my Tier 1 goods? This requires a complete redo of my city due to the change in size, and since I have no need at least at the moment, I cannot see why I should go to the trouble of upgrading. My residences and main Hall are continually upgraded to higher levels as I find the benefit in doing this, however right now there is no benefit for me to upgrade my Tier 1 goods except to play this Quest :( not enough reason for me!
 

Deleted User - 312108

Guest
@Alistaire I actually did on beta - here is a repost :). Fair warning, it gets long.

The main issues I have
1) Arbitrary assignment of currency - Sorry, but quests that require more time, goods, etc should grant higher currency than quests that are relatively effortless.
2) Quest scaling - certain quests have a greater impact and cost both during the event and long term at various levels
In Chapter 6/7 yes, 7 encounters is relatively easy having it a multitude of times over the course of an event means that I may be overextended which escalates the costs of the current and future events. And quite simply 35 (9 tourney provinces) is not something that I can manage over and over again in one set at my current level. I know for end of chapter players it is inconsequential, however for lower levels it is an issue.
3) Certain quest types should be limited as they have longer impacts than simply the event - these include Scouting, Gain Relics, Gain CC, Complete Provinces, Solve Encounter, Gain Spell Fragment, Gain Vision Vapor. These are all high cost quests, some such as gain relics, scouting, complete provinces and solve encounters have impacts on the player longer term.
4) No way to skip a problematic quest - Some quests such as Gain CC, a player can run out of resources to effectively complete. Once this happens there is no way to progress and given the number of events that have required these types of events, many lower and mid level players are likely to run into this issue.
5) Narrow path of quest completion - I have no objection to the production quests, however, I would like to see changes implemented to BUY KP, Produce goods, Recruit troops. You have given us many wonderful event buildings such as Carting Libraries, Ancient Wonders, and others that produce goods, KP, and supplies, but if they do not count toward the supply, KP, gain good quests, you are eliminating one of the joys of having them.
6) Quest escalation - certain things like solve encounters and gain relics leap from 2 to 5 to 7 and this gets to be too much on an already high cost quest.


One of the other items that I think the developers need to address is their vision of events.
Quite simply - define a couple broad category of player types - very casual (a couple times a week), casual (twice a day), determined (several times a day, maybe using boosts or diamonds), and hard core (logged in a lot and purchases the building, using a lot of boosts, diamonds etc to accelerate play or has designed city to maximize event participation)
Combine the player type with where they are chapter-wise, low, mid, upper

My expectations is that a low very casual player might get 1-2 evolutions, a mid very casual would get 3-4, a high very casual 5-6. None of these would fully evolve a building.
A determined player at any level should at minimum completely evolve 1 building and be partway on a second.
A Hard Core player at Mid/Upper levels likely will have 2 buildings completely evolved and potentially the third.

Okay suggestions on how to address the issues:
1) Currency assignments - on the US forums I did a more in depth suggestion but the core breakdown is determine the relative effort and cost of a quest.
These break down into free/low/medium/high/very high - effort represents the time so something like give neighborly help is a free/free quest. Where as Gain CC is a High/Very High quest. Quests on the low end of the spectrum occur more frequently, but have a relatively low currency gain (10 or so depending), expensive quests such as complete province, complete 7 encounters, gain CC, gain vision vapor, gain relics, could be giving 50 or more currency. For workshop quests, 5 5 minute productions gives less at scale than 25 5 minute production. Each time tier and factory count increases the currency awarded so that players are not penalized as much by receiving a 9 hour or 24 hour quest in comparison to a player who has received a 3 hour or 1 hour quest. The intent behind this is to keep thing in scale toward a relative currency gain based on player type vs. luck based. Currently if a player is very lucky and gets 3 relatively easy quests they can amass currency very quickly - which is part of what we saw with the Mermaid event.

2) Quest Scaling - One of the reasons I emphasize this is certain quests have harsher impacts at various levels. For a low (1-5) chapter player, if all the provinces they have left are 'very hard' the costs of goods and troops to complete 7 encounters can be prohibitive especially if they recur too often. For upper tier players, the time it takes to scout means they have 3 days downtime in the event and increases the likelihood of non-participation. There is a certain amount of scaling with the gain supply/gold/good quests, but I would like to see some further customization. The quests that low, mid, and upper tier chapters receive may be different. Lower 1-5 may receive more gain good, chapters that have guest races could have produce a specific guest race good if it is unlocked, or T2 & T3 goods. This allows more variation.

3) Limits on certain quests - Some of the very high cost quests (such as any that require relics) can very adversely impact a player or completely block them. Gain CC, Gain Relic, VV, Spell Fragments, Solve Encounters, Buy KP & Scout Province should all be fairly limited on how often they can occur. Some of these are high cost due to requiring relics or limited resources to complete, Buy KP does not reset so has an ever increasing cost to the player to complete unless they spend diamonds which may ultimately be the intent, solve encounters & scout provinces has ramifications beyond the current event if they occur too frequently as previously stated. Implementing a counter on the more problematic quests so that they cannot occur more than once in every 20 or 50 quests would alleviate seeing these quests far too often.

4) Skipping quests - I know that it seems like this would make it far too easy, but there are ways to implement a skip such as a 12 hour cool down before a new event quest is given would alleviate the issue. There are certain times where a quest will completely block progress for various reasons and currently once a block is reached there is no in-game way of moving beyond it unless the player is able to find some way to complete the quest.

5) Narrow path of quest completion - this is inherent in the production quests, and there are a lot of those, that is why it is a relief to see more gain good quests. For gain good/gold/supply quests ensuring that event buildings that produce those qualify to complete the quest adds value to the quest. Quests like Spend KP are actually ideal as there are multiple avenues to do so whether it is research, investing in my own or another's AW, using an AW KP token. Spend KP is one that could have variance added for spend 3/5/7/10/15 KP rather than just 10. To me Buy KP highlights this issue, it is a high cost (either escalating goods or a diamond cost) quest that only has one avenue of completion (Scout province is the same). Changing Buy KP to gain KP opens it up for the player to determine how to meet the quest requirement vs. the developers and gives more shine to carting libraries and AWs that grant KP... OR the player waits until they gain KP through time which slows down their quest progress.

The flip side of this is multiple quests that basically require the same resource utilization (hence why I refer to them as costly). The quests Gain Relics, Solve Encounters basically use the same resource even if they use different terminology. Potentially relics can be crafted, however since there are gain vision vapor quests, most players are pre-producing buildings to meet the vision vapor requirement vs. crafting for relics to meet the gain relic quest, this is again why these quests should be limited in occurrence.

6) Quest Escalation - basically I have addressed this elsewhere in the definition of quests being costly. The Gain Relic and Solve encounter quests jumping from 2 to 5 to 7 means that they increase the costs and because they can theoretically occur every quest or every other quest these quests can quickly denude a player of goods and troops. My preference would be that any very high cost quest that requires encounters or relics in its production should have a very limited amount of occurrences in the event.
 

qaccy

Well-Known Member
Yeah, I think you are. I'm done with Constructs and had 5 Workshops at level 18 or 19 and was constantly dumping supplies into the trader because I keep maxing 4100K MH storage. No need for any higher workshops or more than 5, I was very comfortable going thru Constructs. I also do approx 2000 points in the tourny every week easily.

You must not do much battling, because training units is by far the biggest consumer of supplies. I have 15 workshops maxed out and I go through over a million supplies per day keeping units stocked for my tournament needs. Producing goods and even producing orcs (which I keep doing even though I have over 1.5 million of those) is a paltry sum in comparison. Maybe an additional reason folks have so few workshops is because of my continued suspicion that many players don't really fight all that much?
 

chgobob33

Member
You so right. Phoenix was fine. INNO, if you really don't want people getting duplicate grand prizes DON'T put base level grand prizes in the rotation. If you REALLY hate people getting too many prizes in general have a set PUBLISHED quest list that allows if completed everyone to get a fully evolved building or whatever.

Why the weird Crazy let's screw players with a random list???? Forge of Empires PUBLISHES the quest list and is wonderful in comparison to the garbage nonsense this new team is pulling on players!!!!



I have never felt the need to come write in the Discussion forum because I have always loved the events and their structure, until this.

It's obvious the devs are struggling with pace; and with the unnecessary desire to please their entire player base by offering everyone the chance to be equally as miserable as one another in the completion of event quests.

What's also obvious to me, is that the devs do listen, but it's also ironic (I don't know if the devs even realize it) we've come full circle from Phoenix.

Phoenix & Stonehenge:
#1 complaint with events before Phoenix was space, so they implement FoE evolving buildings, which fixes complaints for space, still limited quest list. So not alot of people ended up with 2 Phoenixes, maybe 2% of player base.
#2 Then people complain that the phoenix buildings are so good; but they were unable to get one due to some people having cheat sheets prior to the event. Here's a suggestion, why doesn't inno pre-publish the list to everyone so everyone gets a head start, not just us active players who actually look on forums and compare with the BETA list (something we should be rewarded for anyways by being able to get a higher level Phoenix for more active work and research)

Mermaids
#3 After the complaints cheat sheets vs. no cheat sheets, they said hey : let's make it unlimited so that way everyone can do what they want and only have their own participation to blame in the event of under-levelled prize buildings (Mermaid). This took care of cheat sheets, and seemingly made everyone happy as even beginners thought : "Hey! I can probably win everything since it's unlimited", which they did. Some of us even won 5-10 Mermaid buildings. But unfortunately everyone winning is not what INNO wants. So before people complained about lack of pace, now there was too much pace.

Autumn Zodiac
#4 With so many prizes won in Mermaids, there had to be a massive taper effect on how many prizes could be won. Out of the 100's of ways to limit pace, they chose to restrict WS and T1 levels. No comment.

But in doing so, do you guys realize you've literally come full circle from Phoenix with absolutely no progress? Before, with cheat sheets, 20-40% of people got ONE lvl10 Phoenix. Maybe 5% max got TWO lvl10 Phoenix. That's a perfect distribution.....Same with Stonehenge...Mermaids once again most players got 1 lvl 10, maybe 5% got 2 or more (by the way, this was your most popular event due to this same fact...)

And now back to Autumn Zodiac, where actually people will be hard pressed to get ONE lvl10 bear.

The conclusion: you guys have literally ruined a perfect normal distribution for prizes that you had in Phoenix and Stonehenge, in the hopes of providing "fairness". I guess by "fairness" you mean someone in a Chapter 1 city should have same capacity at winning AS MANY grand prizes as a Chapter 13 city. That is not fairness; that's trying to please everyone regardless of their time invested in the game; and the hardcore players won't have any of it as you guys are currently seeing in this entire thread and the beta thread, which is why you've now done TWO updates within TWO first days of the event, I've never seen that, it means you guys know somethings severely wrong and aren't sure how to perma fix it.

Here's your perma fix :

You guys need to once again reward the players for ACTIVITY, not for just having an account with a login button.

A player who has the capacity to devote 50% of his city to lvl1 ws and T1, and who plays 8-12 hours a day, should win FAR FAR FAR MORE grand prizes than a Chapter 1 player who plays for 15 minutes and has no space for extra buildings.

Think about who pays for diamonds for a second; only people who are heavily already invested time-wise into their city. And those are the people you are driving away right now because you're not paying rewards based off activity anymore, you're trying to put everyone in the same boat and quite frankly this game has too many variables for that.

Past quest 150, all quests should be almost impossible for inactive players.
Put : Make 40 x 3hr T1 cooks, Make 100 Beverages, Make 30 Bread, that way if people don't get their building to lvl10, or don't get 2 or 3 or 4 grand prize buildings, THEY ONLY HAVE THEMSELVES TO BLAME AND NOT INNO!!!!!

FYI & PS: You guys are gamers. You've seen what patches did to World of Warcraft & Star Wars Galaxies PAYING player bases, and you've seen Blizzard try and save the brand recently by putting out WoW classic.

Why you guys pay so much attention to Chapter 3 cities complaining about their Level 5 Stonehenge on the same forums where two posts below you can find the full Stonehenge quest list from TomatoHue which ensures a Level 9, I have no clue. If they can't search for information they do not deserve be rewarded as much as someone who puts together an entire spreadsheet for a virtual game event guys, let's be real here, they also don't spend a tenth as much $$$...

Thanks for listening,
 
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