Developers Working on Scroll Solution

[Deleted User - 849192770]

they should just change all moonstone set to boost +0 that would solve everything and increase fair trading its a really basic fix which has been brought up lots by the people on the forum but nothing has been done what is with inno! and yes the current solution will take aroung 5 years and if anyone still plays elvenar then it will i will be impressed

 

[Sir Squirrel]

I would like to explain why I would prefer them changing the output of libraries to everyone's boost rather then to a boost +1 or +2.
Scroll boosted players like myself have the option to buy KP and trade scrolls for silk and crystal in the traders wholesaler. Someone that is not boosted in scrolls will not have these options available to them, so they will have a harder time getting rid of them. I assume a fair amount of non scroll boosted players (late chapter players anyway) will have lots of extra scrolls on hand already from taking there FS and neighbors trades for scrolls for so long and from their libraries if they have them as well. Also as I have been having to deal with this issue for a long time already I would not wish it on any other player because it sucks!!

 

[Fayeanne]

We could all just trade in our surplus of scrolls for KP

We can burn Scrolls on KP! O_O
Suddenly I love being boosted in Scrolls.

Honestly, I can see the hesitation for altering the Moonstone Library after it is already in play. This would surely irritate possibly as many players as it pleases. Having said that, the argument for Boost+0 is valid and I already have decided to just put up a Blooming Trader Guild and burn my Scrolls in the Wholesaler, so Boost+0 wouldn't particularly bother me in that case. (I mean, it's what I have already. And I only have a Moonstone Library for the CCs, not the Scrolls.)

And that is absolutely a good point--Scrolls-boosted players have a way of burning of our Scrolls. So go ahead, throw them at us! (After fixing the problem, of course.)

 

[ajqtrz]

Scrolls boosted players shouldn't be handicapped anymore than other boosted players. All Elvenar players are suppose to be on a level playing field. Just because you have found a work around doesn't mean a work around should NEED to be found. This is a game design flaw and INNO should FIX the problem, scrolls boosted players should not HAVE to use a work around.

A work around is not a bad thing. I play the FA and have some "work arounds" for space. I put some buildings into storage. I calculate how much of something I will need, gather that much, and then put the production buildings for that resource in storage. It's a work around for the lack of space for my many large T1 boosted. I also build my portal to level 4 and then get rid of any of the secondary buildings and use portal profits. That's my work around for the slowness of late chapters. Both are "work arounds" others use. That we have to use them may be, in part, a response to "mistakes" the devs made when they introduced the FA, or exceedingly long chapters. The amount of space needed to be competitive in the FA is very high and the players responded by finding "work arounds." The time it takes to do an late chapter can be months and longer. The introduction of Portal Profits may have been just to "fix" that problem, and it did, but I suspect way more than was expected as now you can do a good deal of the chapter with PP's and not have the guest race farm. At least in Chapter 15 I did.

But I could be wrong. I'm not opposed to a "fix" and like the one suggested, "boosted+1"). I do think it would at least stop the complaining (LOL), even if it did make my city less profitable. But if it did, I'd just evaluate the conditions of the market and adjust accordingly. Works every time for me.

Scroll boosted players like myself have the option to buy KP and trade scrolls for silk and crystal in the traders wholesaler.

So how come those with surplus scrolls don't seem to be doing this? Perhaps because the actual market value of scrolls is about 25% higher than the wholesaler offers? In other words, they value their scroll higher than the devs have determined in the wholesaler? One does have to wonder why the game calls 100k of scrolls traded for 100k of silk or crystal "fair" but then offers the same trade at such an "unfair" level? And the fact that each trade you make in the wholesaler goes up and becomes even more "unfair" is pretty strange.

AJ

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

So how come those with surplus scrolls don't seem to be doing this? Perhaps because the actual market value of scrolls is about 25% higher than the wholesaler offers? In other words, they value their scroll higher than the devs have determined in the wholesaler? One does have to wonder why the game calls 100k of scrolls traded for 100k of silk or crystal "fair" but then offers the same trade at such an "unfair" level? And the fact that each trade you make in the wholesaler goes up and becomes even more "unfair" is pretty strange.

Not having built and leveled up the Blooming Trader Guild AW that makes the Wholesaler offers better may make a difference to some players too. Seeing as how a lot of people here say that Wonder is lower tier or should not be built at all, a lot of scrolls players may not even have it and not having it, or not having it leveled up to al least 10 or 15, makes the Wholesaler offers stay crappy. My BTG is level 16, so that makes my first Wholesaler offer of the day cost 41,500 booster tier 2 for 28,000 of each of the two non-boosted. If it was level 30, that first trade for each would be for an even amount.

And it calls those fair because they are for some players in some parts of each server. If normal goods were global trades, like with sentient, then it would be different. And why would the game ever have to be so complex in the trade formula that it should know one person is in a scrolls-heavy region, while another player is in a region where things are balanced, and yet another player is in a region where almost no one ever offers scrolls because all the scrolls players quit and everyone now needs them?

 

[The Fairy]

@ajqtrz I started experimenting with selling my scrolls at discount in my H city. I stopped at 15 % (at 15% my scrolls still didn't sell), cause I started fearing that I would only make the scrolls abundance worse: by selling scrolls at discount those boosted in silk and crystal who bought my discounted scrolls would need to produce less silk/crystal to cover their needs!

So now I am desperately trying to figure out what to do instead. Right now I try with travelling merchants as I can at least produce a small amount of crystal/silk that way. And hope for mermaid paradise artifacts in spire soon (and hope for a lot of luck so I can get enough of them). Does anyone have other suggestions?

 

[Dew Spinner]

A work around is not a bad thing. I play the FA and have some "work arounds" for space. I put some buildings into storage. I calculate how much of something I will need, gather that much, and then put the production buildings for that resource in storage. It's a work around for the lack of space for my many large T1 boosted. I also build my portal to level 4 and then get rid of any of the secondary buildings and use portal profits. That's my work around for the slowness of late chapters. Both are "work arounds" others use. That we have to use them may be, in part, a response to "mistakes" the devs made when they introduced the FA, or exceedingly long chapters. The amount of space needed to be competitive in the FA is very high and the players responded by finding "work arounds." The time it takes to do an late chapter can be months and longer. The introduction of Portal Profits may have been just to "fix" that problem, and it did, but I suspect way more than was expected as now you can do a good deal of the chapter with PP's and not have the guest race farm. At least in Chapter 15 I did.

But I could be wrong. I'm not opposed to a "fix" and like the one suggested, "boosted+1"). I do think it would at least stop the complaining (LOL), even if it did make my city less profitable. But if it did, I'd just evaluate the conditions of the market and adjust accordingly. Works every time for me.



So how come those with surplus scrolls don't seem to be doing this? Perhaps because the actual market value of scrolls is about 25% higher than the wholesaler offers? In other words, they value their scroll higher than the devs have determined in the wholesaler? One does have to wonder why the game calls 100k of scrolls traded for 100k of silk or crystal "fair" but then offers the same trade at such an "unfair" level? And the fact that each trade you make in the wholesaler goes up and becomes even more "unfair" is pretty strange.

AJ

Those work arounds are a choice not a necessity caused by a game design flaw. Everyone knows why the wholesaler is the way it is...to induce trading, it was being too heavily utilized before and people were not trading, just relying on the wholesaler.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Honestly, I can see the hesitation for altering the Moonstone Library after it is already in play. This would surely irritate possibly as many players as it pleases.

That doesn't sound right to me. If the only change was to give players a different good in the same amount and in the same tier I don't see any good reason why anyone would complain about that.

 

[Iyapo1]

@The Fairy
I have my hope pinned on the Blooming Trader Guild wonder. I will be stopping at the end of fairies/beginning of orcs in both my scroll boosted cities to level this puppy up to 20+. It is my last hope.

 

[The Fairy]

Thanks @Iyapo1, if I get desperate enough I will consider building the Bee. So far I prefer putting most of my kp in my fighting wonders and PT. The more I can fight, the less goods I need.

 

[Yogi Dave]

If the only change was to give players a different good in the same amount and in the same tier I don't see any good reason why anyone would complain about that.

You must be new here and haven't read much in the forums if you think people need good reasons to complain.

On a more realistic note, I like best the change to boost+0. Harder to be an island when you need to trade for goods. And just making it so you can only get one from the MA doesn't help much given how many Moonstone megalopolis are out there. That does not mean I want to be able to get more from the MA. I already have 15 libraries and over 80 of the other moonset pieces in my inventory.

Overall, I agree with others who think (fear?) Inno will think putting it in the MA as is solves the problem.

 

[Yogi Dave]

Does anyone have other suggestions?

Thanks @Iyapo1, if I get desperate enough I will consider building the Bee. So far I prefer putting most of my kp in my fighting wonders and PT. The more I can fight, the less goods I need.

Using your excess scrolls to buy KP lets you put them in your fighting wonders and PT. Cost goes up by 20 goods per KP purchased, but your production grows with time too. Still, that doesn't help you get the other T2 goods.

 

[Iyapo1]

@The Fairy

Another option to consider.

Send an email to the FS. Ask if the crystal and silk players will give you crystal and silk for your other boosted goods, since they dont want scrolls. Then you can start replacing scroll manufactories accordingly.

This can be a problem in FS that ban cross trades so...if your in one of those, a message to the archmage privately?

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

@The Fairy

Another option to consider.

Send an email to the FS. Ask if the crystal and silk players will give you crystal and silk for your other boosted goods, since they dont want scrolls. Then you can start replacing scroll manufactories accordingly.

This can be a problem in FS that ban cross trades so...if your in one of those, a message to the archmage privately?

I agree with @Dew Spinner here. yes people have been working around the scroll issue by making T1 and trading it for crystal and silk instead. but thats a work around that should nog exist. also if every scroll producer did that did that it also creates a T1 problem and then you need a new solution again.

lets stop running around in cirkels around an issue and just fix it.

 

[The Fairy]

If I have to discount my scrolls a lot to get my trades taken, then I won't have a lot of excess scrolls to buy kp for. But those who buy my trades will have lots of excess scrolls (unless they use it to produce less crystal/silk) - but they can't buy kp from scrolls.

I have considered cross tier trades - but my other boosts are bad too. Dust is almost as bad as scrolls. Steel is not too bad, but producing mostly steel doesn't seem like the right solution either And once I enter sentient goods I will have tree gum which is just as bad as scrolls, and nothing else to trade with before I unlock S2. And velvet seems to be the least wanted S2 (at least in F world which is my only city in sentient goods). And bismuth is bad too

In some of my fs in other worlds there are large/old cities who can spare the goods and just buy fs scrolls and try to ignore their huge amounts of scrolls in storage - but there aren't that many large/old cities in H world (yet). And this solution is not exactly ideal either.

So that is why I am trying to produce at least some crystal/silk myself, but without building non-boosted factories.

 

[qaccy]

I dunno, even if it's imbalanced, the market still sorts itself out. Like with every other trade. It could be seen as a problem if scrolls are less valuable than silk and crystal, but if that's because scrolls are easier to get, then it makes sense to me that it would require more of them when trading with other players to match their value. It makes sense to me if the trade ratios work out to match the perceived value of each good. Scrolls might be worth less on paper than the other T2 goods, but if they're still being traded in quantities that match the value of the goods being received, seems fine to me. And that's the kicker: players still have to be able to use their scrolls. If that's not happening, that's the issue I can see needing to be fixed.

 

[Iyapo1]

if every scroll producer did that it also creates a T1 problem and then you need a new solution again.

lets stop running around in cirkels around an issue and just fix it.

I dont disagree, I would simply like to point out that scroll boosted players can not fix this. They need a work around now because crystal and silk boosted players will not trade T2s for scrolls.
Option 1: quit and start a new city and hope it is not scroll boosted
Option 2: cross trade to get what they need
Option 3: Option2 plus the whole seller(BTG)

Is there a 4th option? Other than the TM(which is really not effective if you would like to spire and tournament).

All three of these will cause additional problems. But it's all we have.

 

[Crow Last Elf]

I'm on Hara too and my boosts are steel/scrolls/elixir. I started early enough to get the Gingerbread Mansion and that has helped the situation. I have 2 traveling merchants up as well. I did a quick calculation for chpt. 8 and the traveling merchants produce more per sq than the scrolls manu when I factor in the workshop space needed for supplies. I assumed MM and Pop half the time, a 70% culture boost and a Mountain Halls giving a 50% boost. Even if it didn't work out based on per square value, the peace of mind of obtaining a steady supply of T2 is worth it.

I have eliminated all of my scroll manu's and buy all 3 T2 goods with steel. I offer scroll trades as well in case players actually need scrolls. I also make sure I buy T2 from the wholesaler once a day since I always have max coins.

Since the evolving buildings from recent events make T3 goods, my trader is flooded with offers to sell T3 for the other tiers. I eliminated my elixir manu as well and buy T3 with T1. It helps those who have both scrolls and dust as their boost, I figure. Also, players usually offer these trades as 3 star trades, so I figure I'm not losing out

 

[AtaguS]

Scrolls boosted players shouldn't be handicapped anymore than other boosted players. All Elvenar players are suppose to be on a level playing field. Just because you have found a work around doesn't mean a work around should NEED to be found. This is a game design flaw and INNO should FIX the problem, scrolls boosted players should not HAVE to use a work around.

Mostly I'm just quoting this so it is repeated, again. Thanks for saying this so succinctly, @Dew Spinner .
In my opinion it can't be repeated enough.

Also, having excess scrolls has never been the primary complaint here. That's just a symptom of the actual problem. Having a good that I did not choose to be boosted in valued disproportionately to other goods, is the problem.

 

[Yogi Dave]

I dunno, even if it's imbalanced, the market still sorts itself out. Like with every other trade.

If you made shoes and went to trade them for pants, but everyone already had more shoes then they need and keep making more than they need, there isn't a market for your shoes and you have to run around without pants. Even if you make more and more shoes and offer 8 pair of shoes for one pair of pants, no one needs them. The shoe market crashes and you need to make something else or starve. That's the way a market works in RL. This isn't a world where you can change your job. Sure, you can invent 'work arounds', but in the end they cause their own problems and still leaves the scroll boosted at a disadvantage.