Feedback please regarding the new orc limitation

[dikke ikke]

players that are playing the games since 2015 before the guest races and AW's have to work harder to earn points that's for sure, when I started there was only dwarves and you need to be at the end of level 5 for the first AW's. Some of the players from 2015 were already at the end of the dwarves level, waiting for something new to arrive. During the last 6 months we all know new AWs were added, tournament was added, contest was added ...
to make it more attractive for new players, it is not really fair to the players that play a long time, but that the is the way it is. For the main question about orcs it is clear that there are not that much players yet that are that far and do not have the mentioned problems yet. By the time they get there maybe the games has changed so the problem is not longer there.

 

[DeletedUser627]

Something I want to point out is that some of us may have been playing for a year or so and had long wait times on new tech bc of it ( there was a good long wait for some of us before the first guess race showed up) so in that time there was nothing to do, no ancient wonders, tournaments, nothing So we negotiated/fought open providences, build more just to have something to do bc we didn't want to leave the game (or at least for me that's how it was) So when you compare cities you have to take in account how long they been playing the game and how much wait time they have had. Sure if I'd started playing five months ago or 6 I probably wouldn't have opened as many providences as I had other stuff to do, and I would of follow the guide on the tech tree for how many providences to open for next chapter... Ect

Do you have a secondary, newer city? If you did, you'd realize that there's still nothing to do in them. Wonders provide no activity, nor tournameents: even a mid-Dwarven city can only manage a couple of provinces to a few levels if played consistently every week. Newer players are still in the same scenario without active play options, just like we were. Perhaps even worse...because once they succumb to the Wonders temptation, they don't have enough room to build manufactories and maintain steady progress through Research.

#dikkeikke

Yes, the game will be completely different for new players after this week's coming update. The available 33 expansions for purchase, combined with the lower "suggested numbers" of expansions via the chests, will discourage them from making thorough progress through the world. That magical little "33" available will prove so very tempting...we'll see cities progressing very slowly despite their owners spending more money on average than we did.

They'll have lower goods production boosts than we did, fewer manufactured goods, kp wasted on the Wonderlesses...most of them won't be able to perceive the way to progress to larger stronger cities. Opening play is now more like a maze, a map with red herrings, a true PvE environment where the enticements of the developers can't be followed without consideration of the logical outcome.

 

[DeletedUser188]

First, you made a strategy choice - to fight rather than negotiate. Inno didn't place any limitation on your play - you opted to limit yourself if you chose not to utilize the combination of negotiating and fighting.

I am not the only one who makes choices in this game everyone does and sometimes those choices bring limitations
As you say all limitations can be overcome by using diamonds but that's not what I am about I have patience and when I make a plan I stick to it
There are players that choose to only negotiate because fighting isn't their playing style ( that's their choice)
The only limit for that player up to this point besides scouting times has been the amount of goods they produce or can trade for
They opted to make that choice now they have to live with a limitation that should have been there since the beginning and will now be there for future players to be able to plan for
Understand this Elvenar is not a finished product it has changed a lot from when it started
the game is going to change even more in the coming years
It is part of the term/agreement we all agreed to when we signed up

BTW
Not only am I unable to fight until my squads upgrade I couldn't negotiate if I wanted to because of Orc limitation
Am I upset - Not at all its just another obstacle to overcome(part of the game)

 

[DeletedUser61]

They opted to make that choice now they have to live with a limitation that should have been there since the beginning and will now be there for future players to be able to plan for

The developers have dramatically increased the price of negotiation in Ring 11 and beyond.

The folks who have ALREADY acquired an extra 100 sectors, ON THE CHEAP, should count their blessings.

 

[DeletedUser627]

They opted to make that choice now they have to live with a limitation that should have been there since the beginning and will now be there for future players to be able to plan for

Why should a building game have had such a restrictive space availability "since the beginning"? It produces an actual imbalance, not a balance. For example, a 2-builder city with no paid expansions is perfectly balanced: the builders stay busy, the research and expansions open in sync with builder availability. Now, with the restricted expansions, the builders will be idle. This isn't balance.

 

[DeletedUser61]

That magical little "33" available will prove so very tempting...we'll see cities progressing very slowly despite their owners spending more money on average than we did.

Do they think we're completely stupid and can't do basic math?

Let's assume that $19.99 per month, 2,400 Diamonds, is a reasonable gaming budget, and let's do some of that basic math.

• https://en.wiki.elvenar.com/index.php?title=Builders'_Hut#Builder.27s_Hut_Elves (500, 1000, 1500 diamonds for more builders)
• https://en.wiki.elvenar.com/index.php?title=Expansions#Premium_Expansions_Overview (1000 diamonds per expansion, on average)
  
• https://en.wiki.elvenar.com/index.php?title=Ancient_Wonders#Rune_Shards (200 diamonds for each Rune Wheel)

Total diamonds, per year, which is about what it will take you to get into Chapter VIII = 12 *2,400 = 28,800 Diamonds per year

• 500 Diamonds for a third builder, so you can keep up
• 22,200 Diamonds for 21 of the available 33 Premium Expansions
• 2,000 Diamonds for 10 Rune Wheels
• 4,300 uncommitted Diamonds in our annual gaming budget

Basic math suggests that a modest $20 per month gaming budget can provide

• 10 Rune Wheels per year
• 21 Premium Expansions per year

How is that pernicious??

 

[DeletedUser2753]

Kat: Based on your calcs for Arendyll, how many new players are being added per day/week/month to that world? Lets continue the math.

 

[DeletedUser61]

I'm not even trying to track the total population numbers, because the number of on-line sessions, and active players, is far more important.

I'm interested in the distribution of the cities on the map, and the scoring profiles, but the actual on-line population seems to be a closely held metric.

 

[DeletedUser]

Another player in my Khelonaar fellowship is starting to see orc requirements as she is just beginning dwarf chapter. She scouts when her Main Hall gets full, so not aggressively or obsessively. It will be months before she gets to orcs. She may not be completely blocked at this point, but is already frustrated and will probably be fully blocked before she gets to orcs.

 

[DeletedUser1010]

Good point Catti-Brie
Question: Catti-Brie; I have been monitoring Winyandar and the purge and now your listed with a score of 0. Can you tell me how and when that happened?

I never really played in Winyandar, I think I may have started a city there when it first opened but never went back to it. I play mostly in Arendyll=} Bobbi: I have one other I was playing But stoped playing it a good while back when the fairies came out but yeah I see what your saying=}

 

[dikke ikke]

i know most of the time more or less what changes will be done to the game because I also check the beta forum. With the last update they increased the city area from 250 by 225 to 250 by 250 (that is 100 5 by 5 areas) after many suggestions to increase it from players who filled the area completely. So 10 extra expansions became available. At the moment I use 58 from this 100 available areas, and until now I never was tempted to buy anything with diamonds (except the 250 + 100 in the beginning of the game that I used in a stupid way because of impatience). So I still have only 2 builders that sometimes are 50% idle. I only scout to reach the number of provinces needed to open the chest, then I wait until I get the tech Three option to reduce scouting costs. I am half way dwarf level now where I spend a lot of time waiting for coal to be produced. My AW's profit from that, because I have to store my KP's somewhere. I will scout and try to conquer 134 provinces before the end of the level, there are also still 3 expansions in the tech three for dwarf level, so I still 4 expansion in the pipeline, good for moving 2 big culture building to the outside of my city and use the other 2 most likely for new residences. I did not check yet how many city expansions are in the tech Three for Fairies and Orcs, but if I ever get tempted to use diamonds to buy city expansions I will never need them all 33.

 

[DeletedUser2753]

the actual on-line population seems to be a closely held metric.

One can only wonder why since Elvenar is such a booming success.

 

[DeletedUser61]

One can only wonder why since Elvenar is such a booming success.

Why do people like gardening or fishing? The answers are all the same.

 

[DeletedUser1987]

I am not yet stuck on the ring 10 orc limitation, but I suspect I will be soon, because I've been scouting provinces so aggressively for the sake of unlocking Ancient Wonders.

I was somewhere around Elven Ancient Wonders when the Act 2 Ancient Wonders were released. Prior to this, I had been unlocking provinces like crazy in an attempt to unlock more Province Expansions. Now I am looking at two entire acts of Ancient Wonders which were released behind me in the research tree (plus a third which I only recently passed), which I could have been getting shards for if they had been released when I was at that stage in the research tree and hadn't unlocked all these provinces yet. This pushes me to unlock provinces even more aggressively. Now I see that Inno apparently doesn't want me to unlock the retroactively added Ancient Wonders, because they're putting out a block on ring 10 of the provinces until I get to orcs. I'm currently in the beginning of dwarves. I have counted out provinces, and in maybe a week or two my scouts will start on the first province of ring 10, if my counting is accurate and the sector I think is in ring 10 is in ring 10. I'm still going to be in dwarves at that point, still going to be frantically unlocking provinces to make up for all the provinces I had unlocked between Act 2 and Act 4, and still not going to have all the rune shard opportunities someone who joined the game now would have once they reach the exact some point in the research tree I am now.

Inno, I can understand that you want to add limitations, similar to some provinces requiring t2 and t3 goods, to the game. But it is brutally unfair to force players who were already very far along in unlocking map sectors to go into overdrive trying to unlock all these newly released Wonders, and then slam on the brakes with the orc requirement. You're making the Wonders mandatory, and then saying "hey, we don't actually want you to build these even though they're mandatory now".

 

[DeletedUser61]

I could have been getting shards for if they had been released when I was at that stage in the research tree and hadn't unlocked all these provinces yet.

Future players will have to accumulate TWICE as many Rune Shards to build their advanced Ancient Wonders. You should count your blessings.

 

[DeletedUser43]

Future players will have to accumulate TWICE as many Rune Shards to build their advanced Ancient Wonders. You should count your blessings.

Huh? Are the requirements going to change?

 

[dikke ikke]

I guess katwijk means that now 6 AW's have been added before you get to the advanced AW's, so by the time they get there they accumulated already a lot of runes. If he means something else, he will most likely let it know in this tread

 

[DeletedUser61]

Huh? Are the requirements going to change?

• When we were chasing our Mountain Hall Runes, 1 out of every 4 Runes was a Mountain Hall Rune
• Future players who want a to build a Mountain Hall will be chasing 1 out of every 10 Runes. So they'll need to accumulate more than TWICE as many Runes as we neeed to, for the advanced Ancient Wonders
• We also have the advantage of a lot of cheap provinces (those above 222) and consequently access to a lot more Tournaments
• In Beta I won 9 Rune Shards for my Tower of the High Men AW, and while I don't want to build it, that's 9*12=108 Runes that I don't have to acquire, so I just might

The obvious consequence of having a wide variety of Ancient Wonder Runes is that folks will go ahead and build more Ancient Wonders, when they have a bit of space, so that they will have the advantage of the permanent buffs, rather than stacking up manufacturing buildings which provide zero benefit other than bragging rights. You can convert the excess goods into KPs and thence into Rank by reciprocal contributions to Ancient Wonders, but that's pretty grindstony.

 

[DeletedUser1987]

Wait, how are provinces above 222 cheap? I thought they made those provinces require orcs, which take so many supplies as to be impractical?

I still don't understand why you think that Ancient Wonders, which provide permanent buffs which are often useless permanent buffs, are greater than the manufactories which produce the goods which can be used to negotiate provinces, and also to upgrade residences.

 

[DeletedUser2753]

I can tell you I am in Orcs and have Orcs coming out my butt. It is debris required for shroon upgrades that takes for ever. So with 100,000 diamonds there are no limits. LOL