Crystal Lighthouse Poll

[DeletedUser11881]

The goods helped a lot but like I said before I still help my FS and everybody in the NH the loss of goods did not stop that I helped everybody before I got the CL and I still do.

 

[Pheryll]

My beef is this - so many of the complainers come out defending the previous mechanic saying it is because it helped them be better neighbors, giving NH? Let's be real here. Most of them visited so many people simply because of the free goods and couldn't give two hoots about helping neighbors. How do I know that? They said it themselves! "I don't think I'm going to visit any more now that there are less free goods!" So the bottom line is they are just in the debate for their own benefit and care nothing about balance or helping neighbors and the like. There, I called it.

Whatever the motive, the reduction in visits since the nerf is neither for fellowship members nor for those who help back. People with the lighthouse/bellspire are cutting back on visiting those who do not visit in return. These people would include newer accounts, who may appreciate the extra visits as motivation for them to continue the game. The player base that was hurt with this nerf was not just the "selfish" huge map visitors- it was also the incoming players.

 

[edeba]

Or, as I stated on the beta forum when there was still time to actually show players some respect... I am a player that doesn't have an issue with spending money on the game, but when you so grossly materially change the game, well, developers did that to another game I played it another 2 years without spending another dime as I refused to spend money after the developers did a similar grossly negative change to the game. I'm not quitting over this, but the "bank" is closed until this is reasonably addressed.

Dev team: You need to understand this: You may think you are the masters of us all, that you can change things how you see fit, that you don't have to listen to players, even those who take the extra steps to get on beta, or who volunteer in other ways. If that is what you believe, you are WRONG. There is an assumed social contract. You set up the rules and it's up to us to find ways of making it work for us. That is all well and good -- but after we've found ways to make it work for us, it really pisses us off when you change that, despite widespread dissent among the players. Keep that up devs, keep disrespecting us by ignoring our complaints, and we'll just LEAVE you. You are not the only game in town!

 

[DeletedUser2870]

@RandomNo.
Same goes for every bit of play: players build factories, workshops and AW's because they themselves get better by doing so, not because it helps someone else. So why should it be different for the CL? At least that required people to take some action and go out and visit, whereas all others don't.
If for one moment you pretend most people play this or any game for the fun of others, or should do so, I'm calling you a hypocrite and a liar. People play games because they themselves like doing so, not because someone else wants them to.
I too play because of my own liking of the game, though that grows less with each 'improvement' and so I keep playing less and less. But if others benefit from my actions or playing style, all the better. I don't mind that at all. But that's not the reason I play, and it's not the reason pretty much anyone plays. So your remark is a total bunch of crap. Sorry, but I just don't have another word for it.

My beef is this - so many of the complainers come out defending the previous mechanic saying it is because it helped them be better neighbors, giving NH? Let's be real here. Most of them visited so many people simply because of the free goods and couldn't give two hoots about helping neighbors. How do I know that? They said it themselves! "I don't think I'm going to visit any more now that there are less free goods!" So the bottom line is they are just in the debate for their own benefit and care nothing about balance or helping neighbors and the like. There, I called it.

So?
I'm one of the people who doesn't necessarily give one hoot about most neighbours, since they overwhelmingly never returned visits anyway. So yes, I only visited them because I got the goods. Except those who returned my visits, I visited them to keep a kind of contact going, but even then, the goods were my primary reason as I'm almost never short of coins and supplies, so those are no reason for me to visit.
And pray tell, why SHOULD I care about my neighbours in this game? I'm not playing this game for them, but for myself. And apart from some trades with the very few active ones, there is no way to interact with them and by far most don't return the visits, nor offer or accept trades, so they are of exactly 0,0 worth to me. Oh, did I mention I play this game for my own fun and not theirs or yours? Or the fact I don't give a fart about what anyone feels about that, or whether someone feels I should play it, or take actions for benefitting others. Nor for the reason they play it.
But nevertheless I DID regularly visit the active ones, and twice a week did do the whole damn map.
Since there now is no longer any incentive for doing so, my average visits have gone down from 41 to 24 (just my FS) and the twice a week visits of my map (353 provinces) have been cancelled, since there is no reason to do those visits any more, but I have several reasons not to do them.

In fact the goods were the only reason I built and upgraded my CL. It was set up that way from the moment it was introduced. It was changed, but still the rewards, the maximised effect could only be gained by doing a lot of effort and making visits. Many visits. That no longer is so, so there is no reason to continue doing them.
And from both this poll, and the one I did among the players I know on my different worlds, it's very obvious most people built the CL for that reason. They also invested a lot of KPs in it to upgrade it.
I, and many others made the CL a part of the gamestrategy. So the goods generated have become part of what we counted on. Getting 'a tiny bit less' as Inno stated it would be, would not have been such a problem. Getting about 75-80% less is not the same as 'a tiny bit less' and thus completely destroyes a certain style of play. One they purposely created in the first place.

As for the issue of balance - I think it is clear what the devs are trying to do here, unless you are pretending not to see it. The special power of CL/BS is to boost good production, but not to a ridiculously high level. Clearly a cap of some sort had to be put in place. The devs decided that it would be equivalent of visiting 30 provinces before. It could be 45 or 50 or 90 or whatever, but they decided this time that it would be 30. If you want to debate, maybe this is the main point to discuss - is 30 the right number? Should it be more? Should it be less? Why? Some of the opponents actually argue that "having a lot of goods enabled me to help others by posting more good trades!" - yeah right, they won't even visit for NH and they say they will post unfair trades to benefit others? Who are they trying to kid here?

Well, basic economics I tried to explain that before, but maybe the font wasn't large enough or so.
Yes, I NEED a lot of goods. The CL helped me get more goods than I can produce with my factories. I used those additional goods to take a lot of trades for stuff I didn't need and it also enabled me to post a lot of trades because I had a lot of spare goods. It also enabled me to post trades at very nice rates, because having goods to spare means its not so much of a problem to give 25% more than a 2-star trade. Not having those goods has a direct effect.
Having about 100.000 goods less each week means I have 100.000 goods less to spend on trades. Very simple. I cant trade with what I don't have.
And yes, I now am sometimes getting pms asking me to take some trades, because I'm no longer doing so automatically. And now I sometimes refuse.
So if you say that that argument is invalid, you are entitled to that opinion, but sadly your opinion isn't the truth in this case. I trade less now, because I have fewer goods.

So the bottom line of my beef with a majority of these arguments against the change is, these people act like they are all for the interest of everyone when in actuality all they want is an obscenely high amount of free goods for themselves. These people will probably stop debating the moment the amount of free goods from 3 chests is changed from "equivalent to 30 provinces" to say, "equivalent to 200 provinces". Or maybe they still won't, because "oh, I used to visit a zillion provinces a week and 200 is still less than my average!" That is the group of people I'm calling out.

As for an obscenely large amount of goods, please define what is obscenely large? On my dutch account, I've been at the end of halflings for 2-3 weeks now, and on my us account I'm nearing the end. So yes, on both accounts I'm now hoarding goods. But so what?
MY play, in the way I want to play it (and whether you or anyone feels that is right or not matters not even one tiny fraction of one bit) is that when the new chapter comes out I want to be able to enter it pretty much right away. So I buy KP's to rush through the advanced scouts, meaning I'll burn up several millions of goods. So my hoarding is in preparation for that.
Same goes at times I want to upgrade a certain AW. I buy a lot of kps, so I need a lot of goods.
YOU may feel that is not needed, which is true for you, but I want/like to do so, so for me it is.

 

[DeletedUser2870]

The goods helped a lot but like I said before I still help my FS and everybody in the NH the loss of goods did not stop that I helped everybody before I got the CL and I still do.

Its not the visits within the FS that now stop. Its the regular visits on the map that are stopping since there no longer is an incentive for doing them

 

[Ashrem]

So the bottom line of my beef with a majority of these arguments against the change is, these people act like they are all for the interest of everyone when in actuality all they want is an obscenely high amount of free goods for themselves.

So you're comfortable calling people out for being human? Because painting yourself in the best light is what human beings do. It is an extraordinarily small percentage of the population that is both aware of their own motivations and willing to admit to them publicly. Being well-thought-of by your peers is a pro-survival trait that evolution has bred into us by ensuring that we reward those who appear more selfless than the average. Unless you're prepared to call out your boss or siblings or parents when they do the same thing, what is it (other than the cloak of anonymity) that makes you feel you have a right to call out complete strangers for being human?

That aside, while the CL/BS was relatively generous in rewarding effort, there was nothing "obscene" about the return on investment. It took a combination of a large number of explored provinces and a large investment of kp, and large effort to get those large amounts of goods, which in the context of the production sizes of the people who were benefiting the most, was nowhere close to obscene. (Even presuming that "obscene" was a good description of any amount of goods in a game, rather than a superlative designed to paint your argument in the best possible light.) My maximum of 23,500/day stacked against my normal production cycle of 118,386/day was 19% of my daily goods. If I visited 235 people that day. How obscene.

 

[DeletedUser9080]

I'm fairly new to the game and just getting into Level-VI.
I was lucky enough to be able to build the CL about halfway through Level-V.
I did it mainly for the added Goods I was able to get, with the culture seen as an added bonus, but at this point I'm not going to bother to upgrade it at all.
< shrug >

 

[DeletedUser7367]

I've, instead of 'throwing tantrums' in several posts given MULTIPLE, logical reasons why this change doesn't work. I'm not about to repeat all of them once more, if you take a little bit of effort you can find them.
Those reasons show that this change is not going to do what Inno stated its purpose was. They also show that Inno put out some blatant lies.'
I also have given several possible options that would have had an effect that was less drastical, but still managed to 'balance things' and with a lot less impact and a LOT less programming.
Also, my mindset apparently is broader than yours, since I at least can consider the view from others. I may not always agree with them, but I'm generally not calling them childish, or brats, whereas you seem to be able only to see Inno's view and feel obliged to do namecalling if someone doesn't agree with you.
"Balance" is a nice word you can repeat all you want. But it also is an empty word unless one states exactly what is being balanced and why, and no good reason has been given.

Also, I'm reasonably sure I've been in AT LEAST as many FS as you have been. And yes, I've also been in FS where hardly anyone ever visits. Point is, that's not going to change now. At best, the greedy ones now do the 5-10 visits to get the 3 chests, but those who do for the most part already did those visits anyway.

So if you want to argue, feel free to first find my posts, read the arguments, then come with some valid counterarguments, and then we can talk. Preferably without a lot of namecalling, because if you are unable to do that I'm not going to respond anymore. I'm pretty much always open to discussion on any subject, but you'll have to at least show you can behave like an adult.

Alas, Dhurrin, as promised, you delivered.... in spades. Those 'who've never held a broadsword shouldn't be swinging one

@RandomNo.
Same goes for every bit of play: players build factories, workshops and AW's because they themselves get better by doing so, not because it helps someone else. So why should it be different for the CL? At least that required people to take some action and go out and visit, whereas all others don't.
If for one moment you pretend most people play this or any game for the fun of others, or should do so, I'm calling you a hypocrite and a liar. People play games because they themselves like doing so, not because someone else wants them to.
I too play because of my own liking of the game, though that grows less with each 'improvement' and so I keep playing less and less. But if others benefit from my actions or playing style, all the better. I don't mind that at all. But that's not the reason I play, and it's not the reason pretty much anyone plays. So your remark is a total bunch of crap. Sorry, but I just don't have another word for it.

Dhurrin, my good man? YOU nailed it!


So?
I'm one of the people who doesn't necessarily give one hoot about most neighbours, since they overwhelmingly never returned visits anyway. So yes, I only visited them because I got the goods. Except those who returned my visits, I visited them to keep a kind of contact going, but even then, the goods were my primary reason as I'm almost never short of coins and supplies, so those are no reason for me to visit.
And pray tell, why SHOULD I care about my neighbours in this game? I'm not playing this game for them, but for myself. And apart from some trades with the very few active ones, there is no way to interact with them and by far most don't return the visits, nor offer or accept trades, so they are of exactly 0,0 worth to me. Oh, did I mention I play this game for my own fun and not theirs or yours? Or the fact I don't give a fart about what anyone feels about that, or whether someone feels I should play it, or take actions for benefitting others. Nor for the reason they play it.
But nevertheless I DID regularly visit the active ones, and twice a week did do the whole damn map.
Since there now is no longer any incentive for doing so, my average visits have gone down from 41 to 24 (just my FS) and the twice a week visits of my map (353 provinces) have been cancelled, since there is no reason to do those visits any more, but I have several reasons not to do them.

In fact the goods were the only reason I built and upgraded my CL. It was set up that way from the moment it was introduced. It was changed, but still the rewards, the maximised effect could only be gained by doing a lot of effort and making visits. Many visits. That no longer is so, so there is no reason to continue doing them.
And from both this poll, and the one I did among the players I know on my different worlds, it's very obvious most people built the CL for that reason. They also invested a lot of KPs in it to upgrade it.
I, and many others made the CL a part of the gamestrategy. So the goods generated have become part of what we counted on. Getting 'a tiny bit less' as Inno stated it would be, would not have been such a problem. Getting about 75-80% less is not the same as 'a tiny bit less' and thus completely destroyes a certain style of play. One they purposely created in the first place.



Well, basic economics I tried to explain that before, but maybe the font wasn't large enough or so.
Yes, I NEED a lot of goods. The CL helped me get more goods than I can produce with my factories. I used those additional goods to take a lot of trades for stuff I didn't need and it also enabled me to post a lot of trades because I had a lot of spare goods. It also enabled me to post trades at very nice rates, because having goods to spare means its not so much of a problem to give 25% more than a 2-star trade. Not having those goods has a direct effect.
Having about 100.000 goods less each week means I have 100.000 goods less to spend on trades. Very simple. I cant trade with what I don't have.
And yes, I now am sometimes getting pms asking me to take some trades, because I'm no longer doing so automatically. And now I sometimes refuse.
So if you say that that argument is invalid, you are entitled to that opinion, but sadly your opinion isn't the truth in this case. I trade less now, because I have fewer goods.



As for an obscenely large amount of goods, please define what is obscenely large? On my dutch account, I've been at the end of halflings for 2-3 weeks now, and on my us account I'm nearing the end. So yes, on both accounts I'm now hoarding goods. But so what?
MY play, in the way I want to play it (and whether you or anyone feels that is right or not matters not even one tiny fraction of one bit) is that when the new chapter comes out I want to be able to enter it pretty much right away. So I buy KP's to rush through the advanced scouts, meaning I'll burn up several millions of goods. So my hoarding is in preparation for that.
Same goes at times I want to upgrade a certain AW. I buy a lot of kps, so I need a lot of goods.
YOU may feel that is not needed, which is true for you, but I want/like to do so, so for me it is.

 

[DeletedUser12171]

Nothing wrong with being human, Ashreem. As Dhurrin finally stated plainly, the issue is simply that people want many many many many many free goods, that's it. Is 19% a ridiculous amount? I can't answer that, but clearly the devs have some limit in mind and moved to make that happen. How they arrived at that amount is anyone's guess.

If the main complain here is that people spent KPs upgrading their CL and now the KPs are wasted - well, you DID already benefit from the investment when the return rate was higher. Newer players won't get that same benefit as before, but the flip side of the coin is that they may now choose to invest their KPs elsewhere if they think this current rate of return is not worth it.

So that's that. Tbh I don't have an issue even with the old system or revising the rewards upwards under the new system. What I am however irritated with is all the threatening to stop NH, stop diamonds, demanding a rollback as if it were a right and acting like there is no good reason for the change at all when there probably is. Maybe Inno can do better in terms of communication, but that's up to them to decide

 

[DeletedUser2870]

I disagree with them being free. They were not. One had to spend quite some time to get them.
Also, people invested in that AW in order to get those goods.
So free is just not true.

As for threatening, I don't threaten. I made a statement about the new situation. I'm no longer doing ANY NH outside my FS. Its not a threat, its just a fact.
I'm no longer trading as much. Not a threat, a fact.
I'm going to play less frequently. Not a threat, a fact.

And you say there 'probably is a good reason' Then perhaps Inno would do well communicating that good reason, because so far they haven't Assuming it is because NH will suddenly become less cumbersome is just that; an assumption of something to happen sometime in the future. But its not happened yet, and thus there is no reason to suddenly take away a lot of goods from the active players.

(edit) And as for newer players. Its very hard to see why one would now build the CL at all. At lvl 1 it hardly helps with the amount of goods it will get you, while it still takes up a lot of space. And upgrading it makes not much sense anymore considering the amounts of KPs needed for that, so it would be smarter to put those in another AW.
Meaning that essentially, this now has become an AW that's dead for the course of play.
I know I'm only hanging on to it now because I hope against hope they will see their 'balancing' now tipped the scales hugely in the other direction, meaning it was hardly balanced.
If its not going to be changed, I'll probably just delete it the moment I need the space, since it now is just taking up space and not doing anything really useful anymore.

 

[Ashrem]

Nothing wrong with being human, Ashreem. As Dhurrin finally stated plainly, the issue is simply that people want many many many many many free goods, that's it. Is 19% a ridiculous amount? I can't answer that, but clearly the devs have some limit in mind and moved to make that happen. How they arrived at that amount is anyone's guess.

If the main complain here is that people spent KPs upgrading their CL and now the KPs are wasted - well, you DID already benefit from the investment when the return rate was higher. Newer players won't get that same benefit as before, but the flip side of the coin is that they may now choose to invest their KPs elsewhere if they think this current rate of return is not worth it.

So that's that. Tbh I don't have an issue even with the old system or revising the rewards upwards under the new system. What I am however irritated with is all the threatening to stop NH, stop diamonds, demanding a rollback as if it were a right and acting like there is no good reason for the change at all when there probably is. Maybe Inno can do better in terms of communication, but that's up to them to decide

A couple of points.

• Sometimes a statement is just a statement. A person saying they are not going to do as much neighbor help as before is not, in some inherent way, a threat.
• I built my CL before the changes, because it was cool, and I was early enough in my city that bonus culture was useful. I didn't put a single kp into it until late July, and did all of my leveling in August, and September. The last level-up cost 310kp (plus goods and builder time) and I got extra goods on one day (it was there for several days before the code-update, but I only visited all of my neighbors a couple of times a week). Not a return on investment I'd recommend even to someone I don't like, because they'd laugh at me. The end result is less than if I'd put those resources elsewhere, So, no, I didn't benefit from the past state of the game.
  
• Ridiculous is really no better than obscene. This wasn't some sort of bug or exploit, this was the building working as intended by the developers after telling us this is what they were going to do. They said the Ancient wonders were not getting the kind of uptake they'd hoped for and they chose to re-balance to make them better to convince people to build them. That's actually a feature that I don't think anyone ever asked for. Having done it. And having decided they were too generous, instead of saying that, and saying that they were going to shift back in the other direction, they kept quiet until deployment, and pretended that it was only because they needed better tracking and is in improvement and that a small number of people would see small drop in the number of goods. I've never complained very hard about any game doing a necessary negative adjustment, it's just the way it needs to be sometimes. I've never had a developer so obviously misrepresent what they were doing. that's disheartening. it implies they don't trust us to understand the game needs balance, and it speaks to a lack of respect for the players.
• People are generally proprietary about things in which they feel a sense of ownership. Doubly so if they've actually paid to acquire access to those things, regardless of what terms might say about developers not promising anything and people not actually being entitled to anything. There's no "win scenario" in Elvenar. They couldn't make money of micro-transactions if players didn't feel a sense of ownership Getting irritated at people for expressing that they are upset that they've lost something is fine. It doesn't ensure you are correct to be so, or entitle you to criticism them.
  
• On a side note, I don't think I ever said I'd be doing less visits, but that's what has happened. I consistently visited all Fs members and 220ish neighbors 2-3 times a week. Since the update, I haven't cleared my map once. That's neither a threat, nor a whine, simply a fact. The people saying that it will reduce visits are correct, whether they are threatening or not.

 

[mucksterme]

Doing some catch up on this thread, so some of this is old.

Soggy? Kindly give my 'complaints' a well deserved break! Over this past week, you blew the whistle on me not once, or twice but three times to the same Forum Moderator! Is it any wonder how ODD it is that you persistently need to substantiate 'balancing changes' that essentially are ROBBERY to over 70% of those polled. Kindly cut me some 'Forum' slack: You are not GOD ALMIGHTY, nor do I appreciate having to fall on the sword on multiple occasions when you decide 'you've had enough' of my tacit opinions. Seriously? Enough from you, sir!

Not sure why you are so focused on Soggy. Guess you got tired of Ashrem constantly catching out your false statements.
But I think if you polled all regular forum visitors, Soggy's name would be one of the top people listed for being helpful, knowledgeable, and easy to get along with.The simple fact that you have added him to your list of Ogres says much about you.

However, what says even more about you is your tendency to jump to conclusions. You had a moderator berate you three times and decided Soggy complained to that person thrice?
First off, any complaints were probably sent via the report button, which is dealt with by whichever moderator comes on duty.
Secondly I know for a fact that Soggy didn't complain three times because one of the reports was from ME. And I have never reported anyone else. I also didn't report you for anything you said to me. I asked the mods to look back and all your posts of the previous day and see if they thought you deserved rebuke. Apparently they thought you did.
Yet you go on making everything personal. Any time someone disagrees you see it as a personal attack.
And then you love to accuse other people of being pushy while you say things like,

Enough from you, sir!

You seem to consider yourself an intelligent person. But you either have a serious literacy problem, or a self esteem problem.

• On a side note, I don't think I ever said I'd be doing less visits, but that's what has happened. I consistently visited all Fs members and 220ish neighbors 2-3 times a week. Since the update, I haven't cleared my map once. That's neither a threat, nor a whine, simply a fact. The people saying that it will reduce visits are correct, whether they are threatening or not.

I have always visited everybody every day.
I did it before I got the Lighthouse and would have probably continued if the Lighthouse was never introduced. The 205 goods I got for each of the 250ish visits was gravy.
But now this latest screwing by the devs has changed me. The last couple of days I've been visiting my FS and select neighbors. Today I visited 30 or 40 neighbors I skipped yesterday just because I did a couple of expensive upgrades and hated seeing my coins clear down at 7 million.
But yeah. Just like you and others, I am now visiting less and that is directly due to this change.

 

[DeletedUser4699]

There has been no change in my neighborhood, or in my FS. I still do neighborly help, still receive neighborly help. Our FS still does lots of trading, still very active in tournaments. No-one in the FS has complained about the recent changes with the AW. The goods I gained by the AW were a perk, nothing more. The bulk of my goods are gained by manufactories.

The tone that has been set in several of these threads is one of a widespread revolt among a 'majority' of the players, but in reality it seems more of a repetitive posting of a relative handful of individuals, some of whom feel the need to 'speak for others', which can skew the perception of what is really occurring. I am not attempting to single anyone out, or have a dig at anyone. Some good arguments have been made, certainly. But at the same time, some very sketchy double-standards have also been illustrated. I am not posting specific examples at this moment, so as not to stir the pot.

I am in no way attempting to diminish or trivialize the disappointment that some have in the changes to the BS/CL. It was a massive change. But compared to the thousands of people who actively play this game, relatively few are really upset about this change. To most of the players, this wasn't even a bump in the road. This is where, in my opinion, Inno is viewing this from. The people who truly benefited by tens of thousands of goods a day from the AW were seriously in the minority.
Aside from us forum junkies, people generally only come to the forums when they are really unhappy about something. If this was as big of a deal as we were being led to believe, the forum would be swamped! When the servers go down for 5 minutes, this place is crawling with people.

I truly do not intend to offend. It honestly pains me to see others get so worked up. I really do wish I could just make it all better. My hope here is to offer a bit of perspective, a bit of relief perhaps, a bit of levity, a gentle reminder that we're all in this together.
Things change, we adapt, we try to stay positive.

 

[Ashrem]

handful of individuals, some of whom feel the need to 'speak for others',

There has been no change in my neighborhood, or in my FS.

Are you speaking for others when you say that? Do you know how many people your fellowship members are visiting? Do you know how many people your neighbors are visiting? why do you feel the need to speak for your fellowship and neighbors?

There has been no change in my neighborhood, or in my FS

Setting aside the speaking for neighbors, thing, how do you know this? Are you supervising your neighbors' computers and keeping track of how many visits they do?

But compared to the thousands of people who actively play this game, relatively few are really upset about this change. To most of the players, this wasn't even a bump in the road.

I am glad there is someone who is able to speak for the thousands of people who actively play this game, or we wouldn't know that "relatively few are really upset." That's comforting.

edit: My point is, none of us know how many people are upset and how many are better off. And speaking for other people is fraught with peril.

 

[DeletedUser4699]

@Ashrem
I will reiterate my point once, then I will be done. My post was not to further these pointless back-and-forth venomous exchanges.
There has been no change in my neighborhood, or in my FS. This statement was in regards to neighborly help. There has been no drop in frequency of neighborly help since the change to BS/CL. Not sure why that sparked so much confusion on your part. My post was very clearly worded.

The rest of it, well, deductive reasoning is all I should have to say. Why you chose to attack my post in such a way is a mystery to me. It warranted none of the sarcasm you delivered. The tone of my post was nothing but kind.

 

[Ashrem]

@Ashrem
I will reiterate my point once, then I will be done. My post was not to further these pointless back-and-forth venomous exchanges.
There has been no change in my neighborhood, or in my FS. This statement was in regards to neighborly help. There has been no drop in frequency of neighborly help since the change to BS/CL. Not sure why that sparked so much confusion on your part. My post was very clearly worded.

The rest of it, well, deductive reasoning is all I should have to say. Why you chose to attack my post in such a way is a mystery to me. It warranted none of the sarcasm you delivered. The tone of my post was nothing but kind.

The tenor of your post presumes that when other people talk for other people, it's bad, but when you do it, it's okay. The above reply indicates that you don't even see that talking for other people is exactly what you were doing, because you have no idea if there has been any change in what your neighbors are doing. Just because the same person is still helping you, doesn't mean that person is still helping their 100 neighbors every day that they were two weeks ago. They may, in fact, be only helping the people who help them back, now, because they are disgusted about the changes to the CL/BS. you are presuming to speak to all of their activity based on what you are experiencing. Your statement is exactly what you said other people are doing. Lots of us are still helping the same people who help us back every day, but lots of us are not helping everyone on the map. And a lot of those people might be small players who don't have us on their map, so they can't help back and the chain is broken. They are losing out because of the reduction to our help bonuses.

 

[Gath Of Baal]

I built my crystal lighthouse on the K world originally for the background image, it was an added bonus that it looks great in my city. The only reason I ever leveled it thru the years is from it being a KP dump when I get tech locked..

I built the Bell Spire on the F world because again I wanted the background image, plus it kind of looks like a gateway, so this is how I always used it for the look it created in my city as a way into the city. Plus I also use it as a KP dump since at the time there were only 2 ancient wonders.

On either world I never used them as a way of gaining a lot of extra resources, since I never visit my map neighbors unless they visited me first, so the developers nerfing them does not bother me.. I will not delete them, because I like the looks of both, but again I'm not a player who has to get the max effectiveness from every square nor did I visit my 300+ map neighbors for the resources they provided .Mostly because I'm way to lazy to visit more then a fellowships worth of people on a world

 

[DeletedUser7367]

Are you speaking for others when you say that? Do you know how many people your fellowship members are visiting? Do you know how many people your neighbors are visiting? why do you feel the need to speak for your fellowship and neighbors?
Setting aside the speaking for neighbors, thing, how do you know this? Are you supervising your neighbors' computers and keeping track of how many visits they do?
I am glad there is someone who is able to speak for the thousands of people who actively play this game, or we wouldn't know that "relatively few are really upset." That's comforting.

edit: My point is, none of us know how many people are upset and how many are better off. And speaking for other people is fraught with peril.

Ashrem? Yes it's me..... and yes, you are 100% correct in pointing out what Inno probably feared the most..... My visitations with 276 provinces and umpteen neighbors? A paltry dozen, on a good day... Essentially, Inno fears that people will wake up to the drought in visitations and simply give up..... I've pledged to never buy another diamond.... and quite frankly? Even as the #2 In our BlueMoon FS in Arendyll.... my 103K pts mean ZERO to me at the moment.... Hayell, the game is 'painful' to look at, given what we've been 'fed..... Enough.... Keep on truckin', brother!

 

[DeletedUser2870]

@Bricabrac

I started this thread/poll because when I asked around on different worlds, about 90% of the people said they built the CL for the goods and they were really unhappy about this change.
I will readily accept that those were only the really active ones, so the percentage might be off, but again, on this poll its about 70-75% of the people saying they built it (and leveled it) for the goods, or at least MAINLY so.
Even considering the people here on the forum also are likely the most active ones, I think I can safely say the statement from Inno: that most people built it for the enhanced culture, is utter rubbish.
Which was my point from the start.

And that brings me to another reason so many people are pissed off. Its not only the fewer goods, its the fact that the devs come up with several outright blatant lies.
- first the reason why most people build this particular AW
- then the statement that only some people would get a tiny bit less.
- and they implied this change would result in more visits.

On all three of those points I have not seen a shred of evidence, but I definitely have seen exactly the opposite.

Players tend to get upset when a company, or its dev team, decides to start lying in their faces, and they are right to get upset. The lies are bad enough, but the silence afterwards is at least as bad. The very least they could have done was by now, or at least in the releasenotes of 1.40, make a statement they had made a mistake, and apologise for it, even if it only was about how they misrepresented the change, if not the actual effect.
Just try to imagine what would happen if a carmanufacturer would say to its customers that in order to make a car less environmentally polluting they would recall all models and adapt them, and there would only in some cases be a slight decrease in the top speed, but then afterwards it turns out people could only do about 20-25% of the max speed they could before. That company would instantly be reviled and probably have to grovel for quite a bit to fix things.

I don't mean inno has to reset the CL to what it was, but this action really is like slapping their active players in the face and not adressing it will only make that situation worse. An apology on misrepresenting things would be the very least they could offer.

 

[SoggyShorts]

And that brings me to another reason so many people are pissed off. Its not only the fewer goods, its the fact that the devs come up with several outright blatant lies.
- first the reason why most people build this particular AW
- then the statement that only some people would get a tiny bit less.
- and they implied this change would result in more visits.

On all three of those points I have not seen a shred of evidence, but I definitely have seen exactly the opposite.

I don't have any evidence per se, but there are some theories spread around the forums on these.

- first the reason why most people build this particular AW
Before the major rebalancing of AW many players had the CL/BS, and the visiting goods rewards were even worse than the latest change, so at least some of those players must have been going for the buff boost (like myself)
- then the statement that only some people would get a tiny bit less.
The wording of this inno statement was indeed poor. I'd love to know how many players actually did so many visits that it has had a big impact on their production. The ~20 players heavily complaining on the forums just isn't enough information.
- and they implied this change would result in more visits.
At first glance this does indeed seem false. It is however possible that a majority of players fall into the "visit just the FS 3x a week" category, and will now visit fs 3x a week + 5-8 more fs visits the other 4 days a week to get those chests. How many of these players does it take to replace the hardcore players that will now do fewer visits? Again, we don't have enough information.

Not proof or evidence, but I think valid points to consider.