Fight or Negotiate

[hvariidh gwendrot]

great stuff thanks .. i went in to L3 with more than enough provinces for L4 and a few left over..so i am now slowing way down on clearing provinces, as in stopped and will just do expansions off the tech tree for the rest of L3 &L4 while upgrading goods,troops and residences

 

[DeletedUser18002]

Is it possible to complete the game without any military?

 

[samidodamage]

Is it possible to complete the game without any military?

It is possible to complete the game without ever fighting. However, you will still need armories. Once you get to Chapter 8 Orcs, you'll get the tech to upgrade them to lvl 20. At lvl 20 they make orc heads (a resource made where you set productions just like factories) and those orc heads are required to negotiate encounters beginning 10 rings away from your city. At the end of Orcs, you get the Heroes' Forge AW that will also produce the orc heads.

 

[Mykan]

Is it possible to complete the game without any military?

If you would like to do the event quests and fellowship adventures you are also likely to want armories and a barracks for troop production. There are quests asking for you to produce x troops.

 

[Tauriel Dragonwood]

It is possible to complete the game without ever fighting. However, you will still need armories. Once you get to Chapter 8 Orcs, you'll get the tech to upgrade them to lvl 20. At lvl 20 they make orc heads (a resource made where you set productions just like factories) and those orc heads are required to negotiate encounters beginning 10 rings away from your city. At the end of Orcs, you get the Heroes' Forge AW that will also produce the orc heads.

Excellent advice. I did not know this but it's a wee bit disturbing knowing we will be trading Orc Heads when we negotiate. Orc Heads? Yiiiii!

 

[HJK84]

I wanted to mention something I realized during Marble Tournament.

@Mykan Combat 201, says train mostly Mages.
I did much better with Light Ranged, lost less and won more fights.
I'm going to guess this is due to my Needles and that my Light Ranged was lvl 3, while my Mages lvl 2.
Can someone confirm this?

Also, I've realized the following before, but it might help others depending on play style. I've tech locked myself on purpose, I don't progress as fast as others. By doing so, Tournaments are easier for me, than it might be for others.
So for example, you desperately want to upgrade a AW, try not to progress in chapter and not unlocked Squad Size. Compete in Tournaments to fetch alot of Kp and Chests (Instants) to help you complete your goal of AW asap.

Another example would be, from what I realized;
If you just unlocked a lvl 3 unit, abuse it. The Tournament doesn't get harder, but the fights gets easier for you cause you now have that lvl 3 unit. Game doesn't realize this and make fighting harder for you, until you progress in chapters and of course Tech Squad Size.

---

Other things I've realized for Tournaments only. For cities built 50/50, as in fight and cater, might also be wise for full Military Cities;

• Fight when you know you can win
• Cater, when you know you can't win
• Cater, after you lose a fight (unless you want to change units and try again, unwise)
• Cater, the provinces/fights that don't require the main goods for Tournament. By doing so, you save many troops. Due to being 50/50, this helps a ton. Example for Steel Tournament; Province fight, Cater = Supply, Marble, Silk or any other combination that isn't Steel, Scroll, Magic Dust. Or the combination has one of the goods that you have 0 worry of running out. For myself, I would cater all that doesn't require Steel/T1, cause I never run out of those, but I run quite low on T1.
• After clearing the 1st Round, 2nd Round start off from the highest Province that you want to clear, and move down from there. By doing so, you use more troops, due to Squad Size being higher and enemies being stronger in higher Provinces. Although, you will still have a easier time clearing the lower ones, specially if you've lost all or many troops in the higher ones. Cause lower Provinces are much easier to fight, and the costs of Cater is way way way cheaper. I myself usually have ~15+ provinces opened, and 2nd Round, I start from 15 > 14 > 13, and so forth. Using this tactic also makes you require less goods, lessening your ask for trades, during Tournaments.

Just a few hints and tactics to consider, if you want to partake in Tournaments, but aren't heavy into fighting or have a strong Military City.

 

[Tauriel Dragonwood]

@HJK84 Very wise advise. Thank you. In the tournaments I like to fight but in the World Map provinces, I've been catering because of the demand for Orcs. They must be mercenaries. Their brute force is needed to defeat those huge armies. When I've reached the Orcs & Goblins chapter, I'm going to keep them in my city for a while (even though they like to have dung parties) and spend time leveling up my own and my fellowship's Ancient Wonders.

An Ancient Wonder is definitely a building to keep. The higher it levels, the more benefits you reap.​

 

[kctanzen]

Another consideration ...
The world map is several orders of magnitude more costly, generally speaking, in troop losses than tourneys, especially the earlier rounds / provinces of the tournaments each week.

I only fight on the world map when medium difficulty or less and the enemy mix contains troop types I know I match up well against.
I cater / negotiate world map fights *any* time I see mist walkers / rangers in the enemy lineup.

Mist walkers are just flat out nasty.

 

[Mykan]

I wanted to mention something I realized during Marble Tournament.

@Mykan Combat 201, says train mostly Mages.
I did much better with Light Ranged, lost less and won more fights.
I'm going to guess this is due to my Needles and that my Light Ranged was lvl 3, while my Mages lvl 2.
Can someone confirm this?

The key units are based on the enemy unit types. For marble the enemy unit types are light range, heavy range and two heavy melee units. The mage unit is great against 3 of the 4 enemy unit types which is why it is the key unit. The combat 101 and 201 threads are aimed at people learning combat and should steer them right most of the time. As they get more experienced they will learn when a specific fight combination requires a different set of units or support units.

In the case of light range they are great against 2 enemies, neutral to 1 and weak to 1, which is pretty good as an option for this province. Actually light range units are great in many tournaments as support options. With your wonders they become even better so it is possible to have as good or more success with them. Remember the specific fights vary and are a little luck based too so if you got ones more suited to light range it will also help.

I cater / negotiate world map fights *any* time I see mist walkers / rangers in the enemy lineup.

The orc strategist is the "kryptonite" to these units. Drone rider is also nice but the range of the strategist makes them a better choice (usually) plus if your lucky enough to have a grounds of the orc strategist then you get these for free.

 

[kctanzen]

I will give those a go, Mykan.
My usual luck is the enemy mix negates the super specialists and I end up wiping them out before they can do their work.

Thanks for the tip!

 

[Tauriel Dragonwood]

@Mykan Excellent advice.

I checked my battle strategy list. When my elves compete in the Marble tournaments, I always bring in at least 2 Elite Archers and when choosing units for battle, I place light-ranged units in the 3rd and 5th starting positions.

I do the same when my humans compete in the Marble tournaments, except I bring in Master Crossbowmen. I’m finding lately those Dryads work well with the Crossbowmen taking down Mages and Heavy Melee units.

I don’t like those leaf-clad swamp dwellers, the Mist Walkers. Mainly because they have high initiative so they attack first and they love to target light-ranged units. If there are 3-4 squads of Mist Walkers, I bring in 2 squads of Golems II (and/or Orc Strategists) and 1 squad of Elite Archers. Golems are best at fighting Light Ranged and Light Melee Units, and evenly matched fighting Heavy Ranged units. Golems don’t like Orcs so when they’re finished with the Mist Walkers, they, along with the Elite Archers, will help take down an Orc General.

When my humans compete in the Marble tournaments, Mist Walkers always target my Crossbowmen, and they will strike back at whoever attacks them. I usually have all my units finish them off. Any Mist Walker left in the fog an Orc Strategist can take care of. Orc Strategists are great against Light Ranged units, evenly matched against heavy ranged units and they can strike back if attacked. If you don’t have Orc Strategists, Mortars can take care of Mist Walkers from a distance or a Knight if he’s leveled up to Blessed Paladin.

You will need a formidable force to defeat those creatures in the Tournaments, as well as the World Map provinces.
Battles get easier if you Research Promotions, Squad Size Upgrades, & Advanced Scouts.
Upgrade Barracks/Armories to increase training speed & squad size.
Build & upgrade Ancient Wonders that increase health & strength of your troops.
Never, ever go up against enemy units that outnumber you.

TREANTS​

Don’t underestimate Treants. They're slow but powerful. I don’t usually take them into battle but now I do. I only brought in 30 Treants and decided to manually battle. Don’t want to lose a fighting forest. They took on 62 Mist Walkers II, 63 Rangers and 30 Orc Deserters. I’m impressed! Get them to work as a team. If they can surround the enemies, especially ranged units, Treants won’t have to chase them all over the battlefield, getting hurt in the process.​

RANGED vs RANGED
If you’re battling all ranged units, it’s always best to bring ranged units into the fray
so your troops will not be too badly harmed when they walk away.
Your heavy ranged units in dwarven armor dressed,
will become powerful Granite Golems after you unlock a dwarven quest.

Granite Golems & Drone Riders (fairies riding bees) also work great together when fighting light-ranged units.

ORC STRATEGIST
Who would ever think Orcs were smart but some are,
especially when fighting light melee and light ranged units from afar.
Using his shield, this smart & battle-hardened Orc Strategist
knows how to block and disarm Sneaky Walkers of the Mist.

Keep alert for Rangers dropping out of trees. Tread lightly, do not steal honey from bees, and if you can’t intimidate, just negotiate.
​

 

[HJK84]

e - Nvm. Just realized I also had to Tech SS to get to Armory Tech.
I deleted what I had typed out, was wrong

 

[Tauriel Dragonwood]

CRYSTAL TOURNAMENT (ELVES & HUMANS)
Granite Golems & Elite Archers vs Enchantresses, Faineant Frogs, Hellhounds & Orc Deserters

Blessed Paladins & Master Crossbowmen vs Enchantresses, Faineant Frogs, Hellhounds & Orc Deserters

Don’t let Faineant Frogs give your troops a tongue lashing. This is what I do to successfully win battles when facing them in the Crystal Tournament. We had to defeat 3 squads of Enchantresses, 2 squads of Faineant Frogs, 1 squad of Hellhounds and Orc Deserters. My 3 squads of Granite Golems/Blessed Paladins and 2 squads of Elite Archers/Master Crossbowmen won the battle before those frogs could stick out their tongues.

The phrase tongue lashing is a double entendre (word or phrase with a double meaning). Tongue lashing usually means a loud or severe scolding. In this case it means what Faineant Frogs do. Euuuuu!!! End of English lesson for today.

A Faineant Frog’s tongue has an attack range of 8. It’s hard to hide from them on the battlefield so it’s to your advantage to use ranged attacks to take them out. An alternative battle strategy for Humans is to take in 2 squads of Priests II who can remove those disgusting spitting Faineant Frogs from the battle and any Enchantresses and Orc Deserters that are within their spell casting range.

Priests are best at fighting Heavy Ranged and Heavy Melee units and evenly matched when facing Mage units but vulnerable if bitten by a Hellhound. Your Priests II deal out 80% attack damage and have -80% defense against Heavy Ranged units. They also can cast a Divine Curse spell lowering an enemy’s defense -40% for 2 rounds.

My 2 squads of Drone Riders helped protect the Priests by taking on the Hellhounds and the Enchantresses. 1 squad of Mortars II helped the Priests by distracting the Faineant Frogs. The frogs will start spitting at your Mortars but thanks to the Priests, their ranks should be low.

 

[Tauriel Dragonwood]

If your Human troops ever come face to face with these enemy units, here's a suggestion how to defeat them.

Your Units: 3 Mortars II & 2 Drone Riders or 1 Drone Rider & 1 Blossom Mage vs
Enemy Units: 1 Mist Walker II, 1 Cannoneer II, 1 Vallorian Guard II & 1 Orc General II

Drone Riders easily defeat Mist Walkers & Cannoneers. Mortars can help get rid of the Cannoneer. Then work on the Heavy Melee Units.
Have the Vallorian Guards chase the Drone Riders while the Mortars blast ‘em. Be careful if you bring a Blossom Mage into battle.
She is excellent at defeating Heavy Melee units. The Vallorian Guards know this and will go after her first.

 

[Tauriel Dragonwood]

As you can see below, battles can be fought using similar units.

MAGIC DUST TOURNAMENT (Humans)
2 Cerberus II, 1 Priest II & 2 Drone Riders vs
2 Wild Archers, 2 Steinlings & 1 Banshee
They came from land, magic and air to fight for me.
My Cerberus, Priest and Fairies atop a bee defeated
Wild Archers, Steinlings and one scary Banshee.

MAGIC DUST TOURNAMENT (ELVES)
2 Cerberus II, a Bud Sorceress & 2 Drone Riders vs
a Wild Archer, Abbot, 2 Steinlings & 2 Banshees
They came from land, magic and air to fight for me.
My Cerberus, Sorceress and Fairies atop a bee defeated a
Wild Archer, Abbot, Steinlings and more than one scary Banshee.​

 

[HJK84]

Going to test out Heavy Melee + Heavy Ranged + some Banshees (sleep time) for Gems Tournament.
Seeing that I can make 2x more squads via Barracks.

We'll see if the higher initiative/range of Banshee (lvl1) + her Passive out do, the slower Heavy Melee (lvl 2) but with 3x+ Hp and the Heavy Ranged (lvl 3) ~2.5x+Hp

Edit:

So as conclusion after testing this out. At the end of the Tournament, 6 rounds. 16 Provinces, but didn't clear all rnd 5 or rnd 6. Was interested in all Kp, Runes and Shards.

Was low on troops.
In some fights, 5 Banshees lost. While 5 Heavy Melee won. And against the same combination, in other cases, 5 Banshees won and 5 Heavy Melee lost. Which to me would have something to do with Terrain. And since I Auto, I didn't bother checking.

It is much better Imo. when mostly Heavy Ranged AI, you use Heavy Melee Specially if the Terrain is open.
If however Terrain has 1 unit/narrow paths, might be wiser to go with Banshees.

There was only a few rounds where I used 5 Heavy Ranged.

All this is however due to my AW's. I think those Heavy Melee fights would be a loss if you don't have a strong AW set up (Monastery) And since even the Banshees lost, it's considered a HARD fight.

Even in Rnd 6, there was many fights that Auto was able to win, with ease!

Upgrade AW's people, if you want high scores in Tournaments!

 

[Tauriel Dragonwood]

Ready for another battlefield scenario?​

SCROLLS TOURNAMENT (Elves)
2 Drone Riders, Cerberus, Granite Golem & Treant vs
Mystic Walkers, Rangers & Orc Deserters

What a battle! While my Cerberus was nipping at their heels and my 2 Drone Riders were stinging their noses,
my solid-as-a-rock Granite Golem, in one shot, was knocking down five squads of Orc Deserters.
My silly Treant was just wandering around saying, “Which way did they go George? Which way did they go?
​

 

[Tauriel Dragonwood]

I’m starting to follow Mykan’s Guide-Tournaments, which is pretty accurate. I start training Mage units mostly for combat or stock up on planks, silk and gems for catering in the Gems Tournament. Below are two links that are quite helpful when competing in the tournaments.

According to Mykan's Guide - Tournament,

Tournaments occur in a predictable pattern, with a predictable grouping of goods needed to cater, and a predictable main troop type.

Knowing the Tournament Order allows you to prepare goods and units in advance for tournaments you wish to participate in. Here's the link.
https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/mykans-guide-tournaments.4014/

Crazy Wizard’s Fellowship Chest Reward Tournaments Chart.
http://crazywizard.info/en/tnt_tournament_rewards.html

 

[HJK84]

Going to test out TG and MC troops only for next Scrolls Tournament. Since I didn't have MC last time, and now I do.
The time for training in each of my 3 military buildings is almost same. Barracks does train ~2x more than MC.

Training; Dogs, Drones and maybe some Orc Strats, if the have 3 Gotos I have aren't enough. Also, can use my Light Melee, due to DB.
Unsure, if Drones will do better than LM, cause my LM are lvl 3 while Drones are lvl 1, but the dmg output on Drone is higher against LR.

I will post results

 

[hvariidh gwendrot]

with 9 tournaments that rotate in the same order, with same troops used and only so many types of resources available of course there are repetitive patterns to tournaments for supplies and fights .. the mechanics are much easier than other games i have been in