• Dear forum visitor,

    It looks as though you have not registered for a forum account, or are not signed in. In order to participate in current discussions or create new threads, you will need to register for a forum account by clicking on the link below.

    Click here to register for a forum account!

    If you already have a forum account, you can simply click on the 'Log in' button at the top right of your forum screen.

    Your Elvenar Team

Amount of provinces needed not in line with progress through the game

DeletedUser2870

Guest
TSmack said:
I have zero premium expansions and didn't have much problem accomodating 16-18 total expansions to orcs. Mind you I'm at 269 conquered provinces - not sure how many extra that gives me but I have a total of 81 5x5 spaces not including the one I've gotten in woodelves chapter.

It's definitely possible without spending $$
Click to expand...

I never said it wasn't. But it would be harder now with the new battlesystem since acquiring that many provinces is going to be tough for newer players.
And the amount of provinces you mentioned also shows my point: the amounts mentioned on the chest should only be seen as a minimum right now and the GZ does definitely not coincide with the rate at which the provinces will be opened, even with a 'normal' (as in not-overactive) playing style.
 

DeletedUser3696

Guest
Dhurrin said:
I never said it wasn't. But it would be harder now with the new battlesystem since acquiring that many provinces is going to be tough for newer players.
And the amount of provinces you mentioned also shows my point: the amounts mentioned on the chest should only be seen as a minimum right now and the GZ does definitely not coincide with the rate at which the provinces will be opened, even with a 'normal' (as in not-overactive) playing style.
Click to expand...
Based on needing 190 provinces for woodelves and 160 for fairies, etc...
I am speculating that players will need 220 for the next chapter and 250 for the one after that. Hard to fathom that if you count my scouted provinces I'm 3 chapters away from the GZ zone and there are so many players with more provinces than I have. I can see why so many players are going full cater route - even if they used to battle/fight proficiently.

Once again they could have done so much better at balancing this game then what they actually did :(
 
SoggyShorts

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
@TSmack it's just too bad that they didn't catch any of this sooner (like during Alpha or Beta)
If there had always been hardblocks like orc requirement it would all be a non-issue.
Maybe they have, but I've never heard a new player complain when they expand very far on the world map and run into provinces that need T3 goods to cater when they can't even produce them yet, because they've never known anything else.

Granted it's possible that with roadblocks from the beginning some(many?) of the "go-go-go" players may have found the game too limiting and moved on anyways.
I think people accept things which they don't like, but that have always been that way much more easily than things they don't like appearing before them.

EDIT: Using myself as an example, the orc requirement was implemented long before I ever got close to it, so it doesn't bother me at all, and never will.
 

DeletedUser3696

Guest
Me being far ahead doesn't bother me. I like to battle and have always battled when I knew I'd lose no more than 2 stacks with the goal to limit the losses as much as possible. There were brief periods where I wouldn't battle since the losses were too great for me (still winnable), but after a few weeks when I tried again I often could play catch up (at least what I thought was catching up :p ).
I tried a battle yesterday and had to retreat before the last 1/2 of my army got smashed. I was only outnumbered by about 1.5:1 and 6 stacks to 5, but their light melee took apart my heavy melee/mage combo. Even after hitting their light melee with my priests and using 3 paladin hits I couldn't kill 1 stack of their light melee. At this point I ran before their heavy melee could get their 2nd hits in since they could kill almost 1/3 of my stacks where their light melee could only kill about 1/4 of my paladin stacks. There were no obstacles that gave either side an advantage and my mortars are just too weak and would need 5 hits to kill a stack.
I'm going to have to re-evaluate which provinces are now easier vs. harder since everything has changed!!
 

DeletedUser2870

Guest
TSmack said:
Based on needing 190 provinces for woodelves and 160 for fairies, etc...
I am speculating that players will need 220 for the next chapter and 250 for the one after that. Hard to fathom that if you count my scouted provinces I'm 3 chapters away from the GZ zone and there are so many players with more provinces than I have. I can see why so many players are going full cater route - even if they used to battle/fight proficiently.

Once again they could have done so much better at balancing this game then what they actually did :(
Click to expand...

I agree wholeheartedly. Wasn't much balancing done.
Also, the increase of provinces you mention shows that it doesn't make sense. 30 provinces may seem like a lot when you hit the first chapters, but even there it's very easy to do.

So 220 for the chapter after the woodelves? Don't make me laugh, completing ring 10 and waiting for the orc requirement already gives you about that amount, if not more, and most people hit that number way before they ever get to the orc-chapter.
As I keep saying: the amount of provinces requested is completely out of sync with the flow of the game.

For later stages, 30 provinces isn't that much. My first suggestion was about 5 rings/3 chapters. But I wouldn't even mind 2 rings/ chapter. Probably easier to program as well. Though in that case, it's not only scouting cost that has to be reduced further, but also the scouting time.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser3507

Guest
Orc chapter is where you start producing orcs, so that means that you should have 223 provinces completed when going into orc chapter.
223 Provinces is the total # of provinces that can be conquered without orcs, which is way off from the number required to open the Orc chest.
So I find that Inno requirements don't really align to having orcs for ring 11 on.
 

DeletedUser2870

Guest
jps54 said:
Orc chapter is where you start producing orcs, so that means that you should have 223 provinces completed when going into orc chapter.
223 Provinces is the total # of provinces that can be conquered without orcs, which is way off from the number required to open the Orc chest.
So I find that Inno requirements don't really align to having orcs for ring 11 on.
Click to expand...

Exactly my point. There should be some real balancing done, but perhaps this time by actually listening to the players
 
Mykan

Mykan

Oh Wise One
TSmack said:
Based on needing 190 provinces for woodelves and 160 for fairies, etc...
I am speculating that players will need 220 for the next chapter and 250 for the one after that.
Click to expand...

From comments made from Inno I have assumed the chest numbers are a function of the number of expansions they would expect. They made comment somewhere about 4-5 (I think) world map expansions per era. As world map expansions have an increasing province counter the requirement should grow in the future by more then it did in the past otherwise we get less expansions per era. Your estimate is probably very close to where reality will be although I could see the 250 been as high as 280 which would put those at 300 provinces on the upper edges of the Goldilocks zone.

I don't see an issue with the provinces needed and the progression in the game. The orc requirement could have been earlier but as it was introduced late I believe they set it where it is to minimise those effected. I do however have other issues with the update and its effects, like the inconsistency of the GZ and treatment of players effected by the changes.
 

DeletedUser2870

Guest
@Mykan
Perhaps you dn't see an issue with the provinces needed and the progression, but I do.
Just to check, I started over, I am ony in chapter 2, playing only with low intensity and already am facing opposing armies that are over 3 times my squads.
My squadsize : 27
Units unlocked : axemen, crossbow, paladin

Opposing units (ring 4, scrolls)
wild archer 80
abbot 20
ranger 80
ranger 80
ranger 80

I mean, who can take that seriously? Those ranged units will kill any one of my squads with only 1 hit.
Even if I face only 2 opposing squads there is no chance in hell to win
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Mykan

Mykan

Oh Wise One
Dhurrin said:
@MykanJust to check, I started over, I am ony in chapter 2, playing only with low intensity and already am facing opposing armies that are over 3 times my squads.
Click to expand...

This is one of the issues I was referring to, the inconsistency of the goldilocks zone. If it truly was 10-20 provinces a new player would not face the squad sizes you mention and could expand more easily initially. One would have thought you could "bolt out of the gate" so to speak and then slow up bit-by-bit as the game progresses. But they have made it the other way around currently such that you must stay exactly to the province count initially until era 3 (ish) before you can start to push into the GZ, the further along the easier it is to push into that zone but then you get diminishing returns due to increased number of provinces needed for an expansion.
 

DeletedUser2870

Guest
@Mykan

Looks like it. Which results in a lot of new players quitting. And I can bloody well understand why.

GZ should be 5 rings/3 chapters, or better yet 2 rings/chapter. That way players will have room to expand at a reasonable pace, with a reasonable amount of provinces.
The number of provinces required for unlocking the chest should be adapted as well to enter the next chapter to a more reasonable higher number.
With 5 rings/3 chapters riing 11 is dead on for the orc-requirement. With 2 rings/chapter it should be moved further out
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser3696

Guest
Dhurrin said:
@Mykan

Looks like it. Which results in a lot of new players quitting. And I can bloody well understand why.

GZ should be 5 rings/3 chapters, or better yet 2 rings/chapter. That way players will have room to expand at a reasonable pace, with a reasonable amount of provinces.
The number of provinces required for unlocking the chest should be adapted as well to enter the next chapter to a more reasonable higher number.
With 5 rings/3 chapters riing 11 is dead on for the orc-requirement. With 2 rings/chapter it should be moved further out
Click to expand...
The game should start out rather simple and easy to hook players. They do this with the relative short build times early on and the small resource cost to build them.
As a game progresses it should be harder and harder to stay ahead of the pace layed out in the tech tree. For example to be 300 provinces in and only in the Dwarf chapter is now impossible, but it should be without the need for orcs. There could/should be an escalating scale of the province armies/cater costs and can only be altered with subsequent scout techs being researched. This means players who have scouted to far ahead can have those provinces get easier with scout techs being researched, rather than them being locked in at the time of scouting.
 

DeletedUser3507

Guest
Inno should really listen to us at least on this point. Far too many players get discouraged and just plain quit.

If Inno wants to keep beginning players that is.

There's no carrot to lead them on at this point, and the battle system still needs alot of improvement in my opinion.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top