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Your Elvenar Team
Ancient Wonders
- Thread starter dzed52
- Start date
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- ancient wonders
Huor
Guest
The tempest is a great early one if you do any fighting. I would also add the sanctuary/monastery when it comes up. The abyss, tempest, and sanctuary are the three I have while waiting on the blooming trader.
crackie
Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
I find Tome's best use is to break runes on to use broken shards for building my other wonders with. It's the smallest footprint, smallest amount of resources, smallest build time, and one of the oldest wonders so you generally have tons of runes for it to break. I only build Tome if its rune wheel is full to then sell it again so there's a fresh rune wheel to break more runes with.
Henroo
Oh Wise One
I think Tome of Secrets is actually very good in the early to mid game chapters. Scout times are so short it will easily outperform workshops and even magical workshops on a square for square basis. It is true that it becomes less effective later in the game when scout times get so long. At that point you might want to consider getting rid of it. I would keep it around till you hit the later chapters. But since there is a good chance you will eventually get rid of ToS, I would not upgrade it past level 6.
Darielle
Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
I never built the Tome. I don't see the point of it, but yes, it's useful in early chapters. Frankly, I'd rather put those kp into a wonder that I know I'm going to keep forever rather than lose them to something I'm going to eventually sell. I absolutely adored my prosperity towers until I got all magic workshops. It's still useful, so I'm not complaining about it, and gives the biggest supply bang for your buck as you can get anywhere.
My favorite wonders are golden abyss, martial monastery, prosperity towers, dragon abbey, and now (in later chapters) blooming trader guild. The ones I would never build are the crystal lighthouse, tome, and the enar ones and thrones. The needles is moderately useful to me, as is Mountain Halls. I love my Dwarven bulwark, but I would not have loved it until an armory took up nearly as much space as the dwarven does. But now, it's perfect. I am also extremely fond of my Sunset Towers and Timewarp. I know some people wax poetic about the shrooms; I suppose I should get that. Hmm ... can't think of the others.
My favorite wonders are golden abyss, martial monastery, prosperity towers, dragon abbey, and now (in later chapters) blooming trader guild. The ones I would never build are the crystal lighthouse, tome, and the enar ones and thrones. The needles is moderately useful to me, as is Mountain Halls. I love my Dwarven bulwark, but I would not have loved it until an armory took up nearly as much space as the dwarven does. But now, it's perfect. I am also extremely fond of my Sunset Towers and Timewarp. I know some people wax poetic about the shrooms; I suppose I should get that. Hmm ... can't think of the others.
Mont Clair
Active Member
Endless Excavation is also great, especially at low levels.
I cannot agree more on this. Upgrade to 6 to reap great benefits. Sell when you can stand on your own feet or when you get to Prosperity Towers (a much better source of supplies, imo).
Once you get to Mountain Hall, get it. It boosts the production of your manufactories and does not matter if you are military-based or catering based, the additional goods you get will help immensely either in upgrades or need the material to build new buildings.
Mykan
Oh Wise One
You really need to give more information about your criteria for best. What are you trying to achieve, chapter restrictions, KP investment to the wonders etc, patience/long-term planning?
Honestly you can just about argue for or against every wonder, I can easily argue how trash GA is at certain stages of the game despite the fact it is one of the best wonders in the game. Then there are the highly focused arguments like if all you want is population then the monastrey is rubbish.
As you are talking about starting wonders there really isn't many mistakes you can make as they are all pretty good at that stage, except GA depending on need. Thankfully GA gets super powerful in time.
Honestly you can just about argue for or against every wonder, I can easily argue how trash GA is at certain stages of the game despite the fact it is one of the best wonders in the game. Then there are the highly focused arguments like if all you want is population then the monastrey is rubbish.
As you are talking about starting wonders there really isn't many mistakes you can make as they are all pretty good at that stage, except GA depending on need. Thankfully GA gets super powerful in time.
- Tomes - Excellent for supplies, KP is a bonus. Can save you space in terms of workshops.
- Endless excavation - excellent for supplies. Can save you space in terms of workshops.
- Gold Abyss - Excellent for coins, rubbish for pop (initially). Around chapter 6 the pop starts to become good and only gets better. The point this happens varies based on a number of things.
- Needles of tempest - Excellent if you use combat. Faster production and makes a key unit stronger.
- Monastery/Sancutary - Excellent wonder, culture and better troops. If you combat it is a must have and if you don't consider it for late game for culture. There is a reason this wonder is capped at lvl 30 when others go higher.
- Lighthouse/bell spire - Can be useful but will depend on your needs.
- Watchtower - excellent for culture, very good late game and in combination with monastery/sanctuary
- Thrones - Only good for score and even then you will likely want a few hundred wonder levels first. The culture boost requires so many wonders levels to be better than something else this wont be good in the early game.
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OIM20
Well-Known Member
Building on what Mykan said, you might find ElvenGems' comparison guide useful: https://elvengems.com/ancient-wonders/comparison-guide/
I have three cities. So far, Harandar only has one AW, the Golden Abyss. For me, that's a must, and if I make any more cities, it will be in each one of them as well. I find it too beneficial to not have. Each of my cities have it. And it is the one wonder that I will, without fail, use time boost instants to complete immediately after I set it to upgrade. I'm not waiting a day or more to get my pop boost and my 3 hour gold reward if I can help it.
But Needles is only in my Sinya city so far, and I probably won't build it in Harandar until I'm much later in the game. Building it in Elcy is taking a back seat to others that I've decided upon based on the benefits factors that comparison guide was useful in letting me look at 'at a glance'.
And to illustrate Mykan's point: Darielle said that early on, she wouldn't have considered the Dwarven Bulwark a beneficial wonder. But for me, it's the space of 2 level 17 armories, each of which only gives me the ability to produce 60 units. My DB currently lets me have 178 (it will be more when I activate that squad size research I skipped and forgot about that I'm waiting on the 23rd's quest to be open for). In Elcy, that's a must as I go through troops like water if I don't have the DB and try to sleep for more than 3 hours at a stretch. And, yes, I have 2 lvl 17 armories plus the DB - I put the other 2 armories in storage for now. Even at level 1 (133 units), the DB was a better placement for me in that city.
By the way, this:
) The comparison guide helped me weigh the pros and cons for what I want to achieve when making that decision.
I have three cities. So far, Harandar only has one AW, the Golden Abyss. For me, that's a must, and if I make any more cities, it will be in each one of them as well. I find it too beneficial to not have. Each of my cities have it. And it is the one wonder that I will, without fail, use time boost instants to complete immediately after I set it to upgrade. I'm not waiting a day or more to get my pop boost and my 3 hour gold reward if I can help it.
But Needles is only in my Sinya city so far, and I probably won't build it in Harandar until I'm much later in the game. Building it in Elcy is taking a back seat to others that I've decided upon based on the benefits factors that comparison guide was useful in letting me look at 'at a glance'.
And to illustrate Mykan's point: Darielle said that early on, she wouldn't have considered the Dwarven Bulwark a beneficial wonder. But for me, it's the space of 2 level 17 armories, each of which only gives me the ability to produce 60 units. My DB currently lets me have 178 (it will be more when I activate that squad size research I skipped and forgot about that I'm waiting on the 23rd's quest to be open for). In Elcy, that's a must as I go through troops like water if I don't have the DB and try to sleep for more than 3 hours at a stretch. And, yes, I have 2 lvl 17 armories plus the DB - I put the other 2 armories in storage for now. Even at level 1 (133 units), the DB was a better placement for me in that city.
By the way, this:
is an excellent point when making decisions on AWs. While I'll eventually use up the goods it takes to build a Tome of Secrets, it's only so I can sell it immediately and break down the runes I have to make broken shards so I can forge runes for wonders I have trouble getting runes for. (Like Mountain Halls when I reached level 5. No runes to be had anywhere, despite all the levels of the tournament that I have that produce runes.
) The comparison guide helped me weigh the pros and cons for what I want to achieve when making that decision.
Mykan
Oh Wise One
I should have added in terms of building options to consider some of those wonders at different stages in the game, a rough suggestion:
Early/start of game (Ch 2-5)
Tomes is one of, if not, the best early game wonder. Its power/usefulness will change over time depending on your strategy. This wonder lets you start faster.
Endless excavation, the extra relics for faster boost growth is handy too
Gold Abyss if you need coins otherwise wait until it is better than a residence for pop/square
Mid game (guest races on)
Gold abyss absolutely must by mid game
Needles of tempest - you will start to need the troop boost and should be getting more armouries that the faster speed helps more. If you place this too early shortening your production from 2hr 10 mins to 2hrs doesn't do much when your sleeping.
Sanc/Monastery - Great from the start but space will be the main issue with how soon you place it.
Mid to late game (halflings or Elementals on)
Lighthouse/bell spire, thrones and watchtower can all be placed at a later stage, monastery/sanctuary too if you only want culture.
Thrones - After you have lots of wonder levels, at least 200+ probably more.
Watchtower - culture requirements become very high in the later game, the % boost of this is huger. Between in and sanc/watchtower you can cover 80% of your culture forever
There are very few wonders you can go wrong with and some work very well in combination with others. If you have a major tournament/combat focus then the wonder list and room for "mistakes" can change a lot, hence defining "best" helps with advice.
Early/start of game (Ch 2-5)
Tomes is one of, if not, the best early game wonder. Its power/usefulness will change over time depending on your strategy. This wonder lets you start faster.
Endless excavation, the extra relics for faster boost growth is handy too
Gold Abyss if you need coins otherwise wait until it is better than a residence for pop/square
Mid game (guest races on)
Gold abyss absolutely must by mid game
Needles of tempest - you will start to need the troop boost and should be getting more armouries that the faster speed helps more. If you place this too early shortening your production from 2hr 10 mins to 2hrs doesn't do much when your sleeping.
Sanc/Monastery - Great from the start but space will be the main issue with how soon you place it.
Mid to late game (halflings or Elementals on)
Lighthouse/bell spire, thrones and watchtower can all be placed at a later stage, monastery/sanctuary too if you only want culture.
Thrones - After you have lots of wonder levels, at least 200+ probably more.
Watchtower - culture requirements become very high in the later game, the % boost of this is huger. Between in and sanc/watchtower you can cover 80% of your culture forever
There are very few wonders you can go wrong with and some work very well in combination with others. If you have a major tournament/combat focus then the wonder list and room for "mistakes" can change a lot, hence defining "best" helps with advice.
Gladiola
Well-Known Member
I didn't place any wonders until I was in chapter 5. My first wonder was the Golden Abyss, which I placed in chapter 5. It didn't provide as much population as a residence at that time, but now that I'm starting Dwarves and have upgraded it to level 12 it gives almost as much population as a magic residence, and a lot more gold.
I am planning the Martial Monastery (Sanctuary for humans) as my second wonder. My third wonder will be Mountain Halls. I also want a Needles when I can fit it in, but the monastery and mountain halls are good for my combined fighting and catering style -- culture, population, goods, troop health. I imagine I might put Needles and Dwarven Bulwark in around the same time sometime in the Orcs chapter.
I am planning the Martial Monastery (Sanctuary for humans) as my second wonder. My third wonder will be Mountain Halls. I also want a Needles when I can fit it in, but the monastery and mountain halls are good for my combined fighting and catering style -- culture, population, goods, troop health. I imagine I might put Needles and Dwarven Bulwark in around the same time sometime in the Orcs chapter.
Mykan
Oh Wise One
If you are waiting that late for bulwark it might be worth considering not placing at all. At the end of orcs is Shrine of shrewdy shrooms, it gives free archers and more training sized based on armoury levels. If you like to tournament than you want to keep wonder levels down in certain areas. Getting free ranged troops is much better than a melee one (I never use melee except to cull the free ones). This train of thought depends on your number of armouries, if you have a few of these the shrooms will give way more bonus, if you have minimal armouries then bulwark might be better.
All depends on desired outcomes, but some food for thought. If I was building a tournament town I would probably ignore bulwark.
Grid Gypsy
Well-Known Member
Start your planning now, in the Orc chapter you're going to have to start producing the buggers, first to complete the chapter, then permanently as fodder for negotiating, building, etc. AFAIK, your options are pull those armories back out and level them up, build the Heroes' Forge and level it really quick, put in some orc nests, which I haven't seen in forever, or run across another building that supplies them. It's possible that one will slide through during the Halloween event since the Witches' Hut evolve from last year makes them at the appropriate level.
Henroo
Oh Wise One
In my chapter 16 cities, Bulwark outperforms Shrooms in terms of training size. I have 3 max level (level 35 currently) armories. But I've done the math and even with 4 armories Bulwark would still give me more training time than a Shrooms of equal level. It would take 5 armories for Shrooms to pull ahead.
Gladiola
Well-Known Member
@Mykan @Grid Gypsy @Henroo My strategy so far has been to limit the number of armories. I have one full-sized armory (not yet upgraded for dwarves) and 3 little 2x2 armories. My plan for orcs was to upgrade the one armory all the way and rely on orc nests for additional orcs (and hope they put the Witches Hut in the Spire someday).
I see orc nests in the MA with some frequency. I was thinking of crafting one or two when I hit Fairies and then placing them and using RRs when I get to orcs. I am in a 10 or 11 chest fellowship and I don't move through chapters very fast, so I should have the RRs to be able to do that. Of course I will craft as many orc nests as I can once I hit the orc chapter.
With regard to the total number of wonders I have, I've been keeping it pretty modest. Chapter 6 would be the first time I'm planning to place both wonders in a chapter. I don't have any for chapter 3 or 5, although I might want to place Needles and Watchtower eventually.
I see orc nests in the MA with some frequency. I was thinking of crafting one or two when I hit Fairies and then placing them and using RRs when I get to orcs. I am in a 10 or 11 chest fellowship and I don't move through chapters very fast, so I should have the RRs to be able to do that. Of course I will craft as many orc nests as I can once I hit the orc chapter.
With regard to the total number of wonders I have, I've been keeping it pretty modest. Chapter 6 would be the first time I'm planning to place both wonders in a chapter. I don't have any for chapter 3 or 5, although I might want to place Needles and Watchtower eventually.
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Henroo
Oh Wise One
I would just wait until the Orcs chapter to craft the Orc Nests and save your Royal Restorations for evolving buildings or your Moonstone set buildings. Depending on what chapter you are in, it might be more efficient to have a second fully upgraded armory instead of 3 low level armories. And with regard to the Witch Hut, if Inno maintains their policy of putting every evolving building in the Spire for 6 weeks then Witch Hut artifacts will enter the Spire in 6 or 7 months from now (not sure how many weeks are left on Valentines artifacts).
Grid Gypsy
Well-Known Member
You're lucky then, I've continually watched MA for them since fairies and I'm now in sorcerers, no dice. If it were me, I'd go ahead and craft them during an FA to earn the VV and then store them for later upgrade in case the well runs dry.
