Balance the Battle!

[DeletedUser4417]

For that I apologize CordeliaAnansi. If I came off harsh that was not my intent. I guess I let the deluge of players that were in denial color my posting more than it should have.

Unfortunately we are in a bit of a situation. Inno sees the problem they created without foresight and they are scrambling to fix it. They know the end result they want, it's just the getting from A to Z that is hanging them up a bit. All I can say is have patience. I know, easier said than done but it's all we have at this point. The game is going through growing pains atm as it literally cuts it's teeth.

 

[DeletedUser1174]

For that I apologize CordeliaAnansi. If I came off harsh that was not my intent. I guess I let the deluge of players that were in denial color my posting more than it should have.

Unfortunately we are in a bit of a situation. Inno sees the problem they created without foresight and they are scrambling to fix it. They know the end result they want, it's just the getting from A to Z that is hanging them up a bit. All I can say is have patience. I know, easier said than done but it's all we have at this point. The game is going through growing pains atm as it literally cuts it's teeth.

The problem is that while they have done this and perhaps they are attempting to fix it many players are quitting and leaving the game or seriously considering it altogether including from my number 1 ranked fellowship Phoenix Power.
i'm wondering how they are going to be able to entice players to come back or appease the ones that are tough skinned and are riding the storm

 

[DeletedUser4417]

The problem is that while they have done this and perhaps they are attempting to fix it many players are quitting and leaving the game or seriously considering it altogether including from my number 1 ranked fellowship Phoenix Power.
i'm wondering how they are going to be able to entice players to come back or appease the ones that are tough skinned and are riding the storm

There are some players that have quit. Players often throw that 'many' term around a tad too often. I say this because not everyone plays every day. Some play only a few times a week. With the holidays looming and the changes that have taken place people are focusing elsewhere at the moment. I think most are taking a 'wait and see' approach to things.

Players who have left will come back on their own or not. The appeasement is only going to come in battle balancing and with the release of new chapters. Inno is not going to roll the clock back to make battles easier for those that are too far ahead of where they should be. That is simply not going to happen. The only alleviation they will get is to complete coming chapters, to unlock coming 'new' advanced scouting techs that will lower the time and cost of things and bring them more in line. Sucks, but Inno is looking long term. To quote one Mod "They are looking at things 3 months from now."

 

[DeletedUser]

I can only have patience for so long. I understand that there is room for mistakes. However, I was recently informed that the beta players received this first and begged them not to release it...citing all the problems that I, and many others, are currently complaining about. They knew EXACTLY what problems they were going to get and released it anyway. I don't expect them to "roll back the clock" but I do expect them to fix what they broke.

 

[DeletedUser4417]

I can only have patience for so long. I understand that there is room for mistakes. However, I was recently informed that the beta players received this first and begged them not to release it...citing all the problems that I, and many others, are currently complaining about. They knew EXACTLY what problems they were going to get and released it anyway. I don't expect them to "roll back the clock" but I do expect them to fix what they broke.

That is perfectly understandable. Here is the thing that some Beta testers failed to account for: They look at the here and now. They see the changes and realize what it means, because it means that players who, previously, had no restraint, no constraints and had rushed out and scouted and conquered as much and as often as they liked, suddenly are not able to do so. They look at it solely from the perspective of it killing their fun.

What they fail to look at is that Inno, for the long term growth and stability of the game, HAD to implement these changes. That had to be done for the entirety of the game. In doing these changes they did a little 'broad brush' and failed to balance things in terms of all levels of play. To be fair a person who is within the # / # tolerances and has not over scouted should be able to battle and with a medium degree of difficulty, win. This should be applicable to a player whether they are just starting out or are mid game or are end of content with the elves. Instead there is this great difficulty at the start. Another problem I have is the disparity between the Humans and the Elves. The Elves have always had it harder and things should be equal, yet separate.

I look with hope to the coming release but realistically this is how I see it unfolding. This upcoming release is part 3 of 3. So we have a complete picture and implementation. Once that is in, then the true tweaks and balances can occur to level and balance things out for the players. They could surprise me or they could disappoint.. we shall see.

 

[DeletedUser]

They see the changes and realize what it means, because it means that players who, previously, had no restraint, no constraints and had rushed out and scouted and conquered as much and as often as they liked, suddenly are not able to do so. They look at it solely from the perspective of it killing their fun.

I don't necessarily agree with this. I wasn't that far ahead. I was winning, true. But most of the time I lost about half my troops. The last board I was working on before they did this was starting to get reasonably difficult. I feel like these are signs that I was pretty close to where I was supposed to be. If I was ahead it was one or maybe two scoutings. This means that I should be able to win now after 3 upgrades and I still can't even come close. I'm lucky to take out one squad before they completely wipe the board with me. If what you say about the elves being weaker is true that may have something to do with it as I play elves. However with what the difficulty was before the update I should be able to win even if it's hard again after 3 upgrades. I had restraints. Challenge is what makes it fun. Not impossibility. And what we're dealing with is impossibility.

 

[DeletedUser1016]

Our fellowship PHOENIX POWER from tomorrow will be protesting from 1st November 2016 to 1st December 2016.

How will you be protesting? Just by not purchasing diamonds? I'd like to participate, but it's not clear to me...how?

I'm not even sure what to say. You're much nicer in this post then your first which I appreciate.

I agree...I like this "speaking" voice much better.

 

[DeletedUser2870]

@Icewolf,
I agree. And so do many players, I just hope they will change the battlesystem to something more reasonable before too many players just walk out.

 

[DeletedUser1174]

How will you be protesting? Just by not purchasing diamonds? I'd like to participate, but it's not clear to me...how?
I agree...I like this "speaking" voice much better.

yes that is correct our fellowship as a whole is not purchasing Diamonds for at least the next month and also not participating in the tournaments for the same amount of time.
if you can get you fellowship to do the same thing as ours that is how you can participate in this protest.
by changing your fellowships name and description to reflect this if you want to see what our fellowship has done we are in ARENDYLL world
regards
IW

I can only have patience for so long. I understand that there is room for mistakes. However, I was recently informed that the beta players received this first and begged them not to release it...citing all the problems that I, and many others, are currently complaining about. They knew EXACTLY what problems they were going to get and released it anyway. I don't expect them to "roll back the clock" but I do expect them to fix what they broke.

yes that is right i heard the same thing as you that theyre were less than impressed with the changes and did indeed beg them not to go through with it but to no avail. head in sand tactics

@Icewolf,
I agree. And so do many players, I just hope they will change the battlesystem to something more reasonable before too many players just walk out.

feel free to join in our protest if you want to all you need to do is get your fellowship to do that same as ours check in ARENDYLL world to see what PHOENIX POWER fellowship has done for more info
regards
IW

 

[DeletedUser]

They see the changes and realize what it means, because it means that players who, previously, had no restraint, no constraints and had rushed out and scouted and conquered as much and as often as they liked, suddenly are not able to do so. They look at it solely from the perspective of it killing their fun.

What they fail to look at is that Inno, for the long term growth and stability of the game, HAD to implement these changes

So I started a new city in another world. I've only taken over 6 territories so far. I already can't win the battles. So it wasn't that they wanted to make sure we didn't expand too fast. I'm right where I'm supposed to be. My next squad upgrade in the new city is two researches away. This will bring my squads up to 15. I'm already at 20 to 30 sized enemy squads. I can't get anymore squad size upgrades until I finish the first chapter and I can't finish the first chapter until I take over 10 territories. 15 sized squads are going to have pretty tough time if I can manage it at all. Seems I won't be able to advance even faster in the new city. This is so horrifyingly bad. I'm sorry to Lion, but I can no longer believe people are trying to defend Inno for this. Maybe you weren't aware of how fast it gets bad. If so I'm sorry to disappoint you. But it needs to change.

Does any one have any idea when the final "update" is supposed to be out? Inno is claiming that at the third release everything will be fixed up. I rather doubt it at this point...

 

[DeletedUser4417]

So I started a new city in another world. I've only taken over 6 territories so far. I already can't win the battles. So it wasn't that they wanted to make sure we didn't expand too fast. I'm right where I'm supposed to be. My next squad upgrade in the new city is two researches away. This will bring my squads up to 15. I'm already at 20 to 30 sized enemy squads. I can't get anymore squad size upgrades until I finish the first chapter and I can't finish the first chapter until I take over 10 territories. 15 sized squads are going to have pretty tough time if I can manage it at all. Seems I won't be able to advance even faster in the new city. This is so horrifyingly bad. I'm sorry to Lion, but I can no longer believe people are trying to defend Inno for this. Maybe you weren't aware of how fast it gets bad. If so I'm sorry to disappoint you. But it needs to change.

Does any one have any idea when the final "update" is supposed to be out? Inno is claiming that at the third release everything will be fixed up. I rather doubt it at this point...

This is actually one of the things that I brought up. Once a person gets into chapter 3 things seem to even out a bit but until then a new player who has just started has a rough time of it.. read that as they cannot win a battle no matter the terrain, troops or squad size. They need to adjust this for at least the beginning level players.

Not sure when the 3rd installment is due out. I think it might be next week? Not sure. They seem to run about every two weeks ish on game updates, going by the revision history thread.

 

[DeletedUser2522]

Why is it that ALL and I mean ALL the threads that get players "frothing at the mouth and backbiting" have Lionsmane at the bottom of it poking a stick at someone yet someone else gets a warning?
Why is it that the "deluge of players" are wrong but he's always right even though he hasn't been here long enough to know why anything has happened.

 

[DeletedUser4417]

Why is it that the "deluge of players" are wrong but he's always right even though he hasn't been here long enough to know why anything has happened.

How long does anyone 'have' to be here to go and read a forums current threads and its archive? To go and read the revision notes? To read the rules for the forum? All of these things are at every players fingertips. It just takes the lightbulb going off in the players head to say "hey I should maybe go and read this stuff" and then having the will to go and do it.

I don't accentuate the negatives of a game constantly. I accentuate the positives while working constructively to change the negatives. I look for ways to change the negatives into positives. A player asks 'why' and I give them the clear answer that exists within the framework of the game as it is now. Some players don't like that and are rather 'frothing' vocal about it.

I generally keep my comments to within the framework of the forum rules, some can't. This is where you see the infractions and such and the public warnings.

If the Mods could speak on such they would tell you I've gotten my warnings and they are out there for anyone to search and see. I just try my best to keep those to an absolute minimum.

But that is neither here nor there.

Battles are imbalanced for the beginning player. When a player that is just starting out and is not even halfway through getting the required provinces to advance to the next chapter cannot fight what it there with a reasonable expectation of winning there is a problem that needs to be looked at. It is not until the mid to end of chapter III that this starts to correct itself as the number of units in a squad increases.

 

[DeletedUser]

Why is it that ALL and I mean ALL the threads that get players "frothing at the mouth and backbiting" have Lionsmane at the bottom of it poking a stick at someone yet someone else gets a warning?

I did notice Dhurrin got an infraction for calling Lion out on the tone he used with me in his first post. While Lion did adjust his tone for later posts I still don't think it was fair that Dhurrin got the warning, not Lion. No offense Lion. I appreciate the change in tone but the truth is the first post shouldn't have been in that attitude in the first place. I get that you didn't mean to sound that way, but that is why I reread everything I type before posting it.

Battles are imbalanced for the beginning player. When a player that is just starting out and is not even halfway through getting the required provinces to advance to the next chapter cannot fight what it there with a reasonable expectation of winning there is a problem that needs to be looked at. It is not until the mid to end of chapter III that this starts to correct itself as the number of units in a squad increases.

Was this before or after the latest updates? Because if it was before how did they think this was going to help us? I'm just about to start Chapter 3 in my first city and it's really brutal since the updates changed things. I didn't do too bad before them. And my second city was started after they attempted to "balance" everything and I'm not even into Chapter 2 yet and I'm not sure I'll even be able to make it there. This third update had better be the answer and hopefully it will be soon. The inability to progress will lose them players...more than they've already lost. And new players who come in and see how bad it is won't stay. That means no microtransactions for Inno. It's really in their best interest to solve this as fast as they possibly can.

 

[DeletedUser4417]

I did notice Dhurrin got an infraction for calling Lion out on the tone he used with me in his first post. While Lion did adjust his tone for later posts I still don't think it was fair that Dhurrin got the warning, not Lion. No offense Lion. I appreciate the change in tone but the truth is the first post shouldn't have been in that attitude in the first place. I get that you didn't mean to sound that way, but that is why I reread everything I type before posting it.

Dhurin got his infraction for the language and the personal attack that his comments turned into. He overstepped and forgot that his place was not tell players or anyone to butt out of a conversation. That combined with the language is what got the infraction.

Was this before or after the latest updates? Because if it was before how did they think this was going to help us? I'm just about to start Chapter 3 in my first city and it's really brutal since the updates changed things. I didn't do too bad before them. And my second city was started after they attempted to "balance" everything and I'm not even into Chapter 2 yet and I'm not sure I'll even be able to make it there. This third update had better be the answer and hopefully it will be soon. The inability to progress will lose them players...more than they've already lost. And new players who come in and see how bad it is won't stay. That means no microtransactions for Inno. It's really in their best interest to solve this as fast as they possibly can.

This came about after the latest 2 updates. Before that the biggest imbalance was the weakness of the Elves versus the Humans first starting out. I think part of the problem is, is that the Devs have this vision of the game but that they play and are like some, at the end of content so they forget or rather overlook the beginning level players. A classic case of looks good on paper but in actual application? No so much.

To be brutally honest do not look for the saving grace to come with this third installment. Look for any true balance to start to come after this third installment because then they can look at the whole picture of the battle upgrade and go "ohhhhh, ok, we need to tweak this up and this down and this and this and this... it will not be perfect and no one will get exactly what they want but the Devs will have to realize that for balance they will have to give some ground to the players or lose a good chunk from across the spectrum.

 

[DeletedUser2753]

To be brutally honest do not look for the saving grace to come with this third installment.

I agree. Go to the beta forum and take a look, They removed the Wholesaler change but will they introduce it again in the next Live update here? Stay tuned. https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/index.php

 

[DeletedUser4417]

I agree. Go to the beta forum and take a look, They removed the Wholesaler change but will they introduce it again in the next Live update here? Stay tuned. https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/index.php

No. They will not go that route again. One it would be too obvious and would cause a migration of players, especially considering the current climate. Two, there are other ways they can go about the same goal, this was just the most obvious and straight forward.

 

[DeletedUser2753]

Two, there are other ways they can go about the same goal, this was just the most obvious and straight forward.

Tell me what is their Goal?

 

[DeletedUser2963]

I am just going to assume you meant that as a rhetorical question, and click away elsewhere.

 

[DeletedUser61]

Why is it that ALL and I mean ALL the threads that get players "frothing at the mouth and backbiting" have Lionsmane at the bottom of it poking a stick at someone yet someone else gets a warning?

Because I've been busy and haven't been posting much. I'm usually the lightning rod.

To address your broader question, our concerns are for the integrity of the GAME, not the temporary inconvenience of a few advanced users who have discovered how to to distort the envelope that InnoGames had in mind, and have made it APPARENT than the game is flawed and/or too shallow in some areas. And now they have to Pay the Piper.

Very much to the point, the FUN part of playing a city builder is that we DO get to tear the guts out of the model. In the real world that's how you become a millionaire, and then when the regulatory agencies and the tax authorities finally catch up the second and third generation ends up middle class again.

It's the Achievers as Robber Barons model for Elvenar. Environmental niceties be damned.