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Feedback Chapter 21 - The Vallorian Legend

Dadnaz

Active Member
I don't think the Settlement and Settlement production is a problem in Chapter 21. The Settlement is easy to build and upgrade. The buildings are cheap enough (Settlement roads too), that you can choose your settlement size. The big bottleneck for me is Mana. The chapter requires a huge amount of mana for everything; settlement production, research and upgrades. Unurium and Seeds may be trick, but you probably have a good production from previous chapters.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
300 diamonds does the trick also. I had enough diamonds saved up that I was able to do this to all the magic residences in my cities. However, I only have 5 per city. I am wondering if I will have to add more just to get the community work I need. But I haven't reached that point of the chapter yet, so I will cross that bridge when I get to it.

I waited so long for chapter 21 to drop, that I had well over 100 blueprints saved up. After upgrading 12 houses and 5 workshops, I had plenty more for making RRs.
 

Vigali

Active Member
I don't think the Settlement and Settlement production is a problem in Chapter 21. The Settlement is easy to build and upgrade. The buildings are cheap enough (Settlement roads too), that you can choose your settlement size. The big bottleneck for me is Mana. The chapter requires a huge amount of mana for everything; settlement production, research and upgrades. Unurium and Seeds may be trick, but you probably have a good production from previous chapters.

This is spot on. The overall mana requirements are dependent on your portal production buff, of course (if your portal buff is higher, you're making more stuff for the same amount of mana, so overall lower total mana reqs), but even when very high (180%+) the requirements are huge. You could be looking at between 130m-160m total mana required to complete the chapter (and that actually *doesn't* include upgrading your T1/S1/A1 manufactories, which cost 2.3m/ea).

Seeds and unurium initially don't seem super problematic at the outset of the chapter, but they get to be an issue as you progress -- in particular, once you've got your workshops upgraded. It's not massive in terms of direct expenditure on production (i.e., the seeds/unurium you spend making oblations isn't tough to manage), but the sentient/ascended goods requirements are huge to keep your workshops running, and obviously that requires seeds and unurium.

Example: I've got 12 Diabhals and 12 Vallorians. If I want to keep those running all day (8x/day Diabhals and 4x/day Vallorians), my costs are:

Sentient Tier 1: 384,000
Sentient Tier 2: 288,000
Sentient Tier 3: 208,000
Total Sentient: 880,000

Ascended Tier 1: 289,600
Ascended Tier 2: 179,200
Ascended Tier 3: 118,400
Total Ascended: 587,200

That's right -- to run my settlement workshops all day, I need to be producing 880k Sentient goods and 587.2k Ascended goods. For me, keeping everything running with MM spells is mandatory to come close to this level of production. Even then it becomes pretty tough. There are certainly AWs out there that can make this a whole lot easier, though -- I just don't happen to have any of them!
 

Henroo

Oh Wise One
Is it just me or does Maman Le Pre's Antique Shop produce an absurd amount of seeds? I am not close to the end of the chapter yet, but I got curious and looked it up. It looks like at level 1, is is equal to the daily output of a Festival Merchant if you manage to make 5 daily collections from it. And it looks like at level 11 it is giving you the daily output of a Festival Merchant every 3 hours.
 

Pheryll

Set Designer
Is it just me or does Maman Le Pre's Antique Shop produce an absurd amount of seeds? I am not close to the end of the chapter yet, but I got curious and looked it up. It looks like at level 1, is is equal to the daily output of a Festival Merchant if you manage to make 5 daily collections from it. And it looks like at level 11 it is giving you the daily output of a Festival Merchant every 3 hours.

Possibly because the increase to seeds each chapter has recently turned to being greater than linear. So the other seed wonders (based on MH level) will not get to keep up in the long run. Squad size base (which is now better than the quadratic progression we had up to chapter 20), may actually outdo the seed scaling of event buildings as the chapters progress.
 

iamthouth

Tetris Master
Yes, the Antique Shop is definitively on my list to build, I'm accumulating the runes now. It will outdo Festival Merchants per tile per hour on lvl 2, and outdo Dragon Rock Gorge on Lvl 3.
 

defiantoneks

Well-Known Member
i stumbled into this quest today, and find the language to be too vague:

i assume they mean i should sell a chapter workshop of some kind?
but it does not state clearly how many.
This guessing game is not ok.

update: tested building one standard level ws and deleting it, and this works. i feel this quest text should be updated to read "Sell Any Building" to clarify not only what kind would be required but also the amount. only one is required.

Screen Shot 2023-09-03 at 8.51.41 AM.png
 
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LordVorKon

Active Member
i stumbled into this quest today, and find the language to be too vague:

i assume they mean i should sell a chapter workshop of some kind?
but it does not state clearly how many.
This guessing game is not ok.

update: tested building one standard level ws and deleting it, and this works. i feel this quest text should be updated to read "Sell Any Building" to clarify not only what kind would be required but also the amount. only one is required.

View attachment 16548
Well, you're not wrong. But it doesn't have a progress tracker, so ... (When I did that quest, I believe I sold a level-1 workshop.)
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
I asked this over on the Beta forum also, but has anyone filed any complaints/bug reports about the mana cost for the Rude Oblations? I don't see how it is meant to be 930k and not 93k, which would put it more in line with the seed and unurium costs in the other oblations.
 

Deborah M

Oh Wise One
I asked this over on the Beta forum also, but has anyone filed any complaints/bug reports about the mana cost for the Rude Oblations? I don't see how it is meant to be 930k and not 93k, which would put it more in line with the seed and unurium costs in the other oblations.

The mana in this chapter is totally insane!! :mad: I'm on the last column in the research tree and I am actually getting angry about this. It is not a 'challenge'. It is a just because they can presumably to slow us down. After waiting for this chapter for so long and them reverting to an utterly stupid mana roadblock for everything done, like years ago, I am getting really disgusted with the developers! I now have some things that will sparkle for a year+ from using the Dragon Abbey for millions of mana and frankly I have never liked having too much of this sparkle in my city. I'm so sick of the biggest challenge they could come up with being how many times we can click on things to use enchantments. Woo Hoo! That makes the long-awaited chapter so fun. NOT!
 

Deborah M

Oh Wise One
Unbelievable! In a chapter billed as at least partly Dragons, I just finished research for Marble factories and they go from a cool looking dragon or serpent to just a nothing special pit. I’m having a really hard time finding much good about this chapter.
 

Kanesi

Member
I played around with the new guest race so I could plan what all I need to store and it turns out that it isn't too bad this time :)

View attachment 16332

I stored some buildings already but I really need to be able to upgrade magic residences to get it ready. I don't see any reason to store armories until I need the space. No reason to miss out on the troops.

I posted this in News from Beta and then realized I should have posted it here. Sorry.
I started this layout from iDavis but when I looked at the wiki page all the bldgs are backwards. The portal according to wiki is 7x9 - here it shows 9x7. I hope I'm wrong since I've already started this. The V-WS's are 7x4 not 4x7 and the D-WS's are 5x6 not 6x5 (according to wiki)
 

Pheryll

Set Designer
I started this layout from iDavis but when I looked at the wiki page all the bldgs are backwards.

The in-game grid is on a 45 degree diagonal. Rotating it 45 degrees one way or the other will cause some to consider the dimensions backwards.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
The in-game grid is on a 45 degree diagonal. Rotating it 45 degrees one way or the other will cause some to consider the dimensions backwards.

Yep, some people rotate to the left and some rotate to the right. I have always viewed the first number as the vertical, so I rotate 45 degrees to the right, so a 7x9 for me is 7 squares vertical and 9 squares horizontal. I think iDavis uses the default left rotation on elven architect, but you can rotate the grid to the right on that site also, to get either direction for your layout. But I have always thought people who rotated left and made the first number the horizontal to be weird. ;)
 

Silly Bubbles

You cant pop them all
This is my intended final layout. Overall, I like this chapter so far. I like building new things and playing with new strategies after a very long break. I'm still taking it easy to extend the fun.

Layout.png
 

Deborah M

Oh Wise One
I started this layout from iDavis but when I looked at the wiki page all the bldgs are backwards. The portal according to wiki is 7x9 - here it shows 9x7. I hope I'm wrong since I've already started this. The V-WS's are 7x4 not 4x7 and the D-WS's are 5x6 not 6x5 (according to wiki)

That is how it is in my city and I'm almost finished the chapter.
 

Henroo

Oh Wise One
Is it necessary to upgrade the Vallorian Dragon tower to level 4? In most of the previous chapters, a level 4 portal was required to hold enough goods to unlock the final few tech advances. This does not seem to be the case here. Will a level 3 do?
 

Pheryll

Set Designer
Is it necessary to upgrade the Vallorian Dragon tower to level 4? In most of the previous chapters, a level 4 portal was required to hold enough goods to unlock the final few tech advances. This does not seem to be the case here. Will a level 3 do?
Level 3 is for noble oblations. Level 4 is not needed, it just helps with the settlement bonus (by expending prosperity), adds another production slot, and increases maximum storage of prey.
 

MichaelMichael

Day and Night Trader
Chapter Quest are bad this time. Anyone that completes 20 chapters has a pigpile of portal profits. The idea that anyone would want 9 fully developed Valorian Workshops is ridiculous - 6 plus 9 Workshops of Diabhal's Horde more than feeds the Tower continuously.

The space requirements are significant - I cannot justify build three more Valorian Workshops just to complete the Chapter Quests - although I temporarily went for the level 2 version (purely for the chapter quests) and also to catch up a bit on those goods as the Valorian Workshops do not go to level 4 until somewhat after the Workshops of Diabhal's Horde go to level 4.

I suspect I have fewer expansions than most (154) but to build and expand to the level the chapter quests suggest is ridiculous. Now I did the guest quarter updates first so perhaps my experience is different. Initially, mana was limiting but once I teleported 15 standard manufacturies and many magic residences, and built 10 of the new mana culture buildings, the rate limit become nothing more than the guest tower. It is not a easy chapter by any means but the quests do nof fit the actual requirements.
 
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